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	<title>Comments on: On moral equivalence</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/</link>
	<description>She escaped from the belly of the liberal beast</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 08:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Israpundit &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Edward cody then and now</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/#comment-2828</link>
		<dc:creator>Israpundit &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Edward cody then and now</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 10:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=535#comment-2828</guid>
		<description>[...] A &#8220;symbol?&#8221; That&#8217;s what makes it so difficult for Israel to release Samir. How about that he committed two particularly vicious murderers? And Smadar is an &#8220;effective spokeswoman&#8221; is all that can be said about her? Let&#8217;s be clear if Samir hadn&#8217;t committed such awful crimes she wouldn&#8217;t be effective. The article goes on to tell of how Samir has earned his bachelors degree (left unsaid is that it was undoubtedly at Israeli taxpayers&#8217; expense.) I don&#8217;t know what it is with Washington Post reporters. Do they get assignments as challenges. &#8220;Hey, Ed, this guy brutally killed a four year old girl, do you think you could make him sympathetic?&#8221; Regardless we learn of Samir al-Quntar and what he&#8217;s been doing since his conviction and incarceration. We learn of the brother who&#8217;s trying to get him released. Plenty of pathos for a murderer and his brother. But his victims are never named. The woman whose life was destroyed by him is never named, she&#8217;s simply a &#8220;spokeswoman.&#8221; I tried to understand why this article was written. There are no good answers. This is propaganda for a terrorist. No less than what Cody did back in 1982. (He&#8217;s not the only one as Best of the Web today noted last week. In response Bookworm Room observed Only people who have broken free of any type of moral anchor could find equivalence in the nature of these “prisoners.” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A &#8220;symbol?&#8221; That&#8217;s what makes it so difficult for Israel to release Samir. How about that he committed two particularly vicious murderers? And Smadar is an &#8220;effective spokeswoman&#8221; is all that can be said about her? Let&#8217;s be clear if Samir hadn&#8217;t committed such awful crimes she wouldn&#8217;t be effective. The article goes on to tell of how Samir has earned his bachelors degree (left unsaid is that it was undoubtedly at Israeli taxpayers&#8217; expense.) I don&#8217;t know what it is with Washington Post reporters. Do they get assignments as challenges. &#8220;Hey, Ed, this guy brutally killed a four year old girl, do you think you could make him sympathetic?&#8221; Regardless we learn of Samir al-Quntar and what he&#8217;s been doing since his conviction and incarceration. We learn of the brother who&#8217;s trying to get him released. Plenty of pathos for a murderer and his brother. But his victims are never named. The woman whose life was destroyed by him is never named, she&#8217;s simply a &#8220;spokeswoman.&#8221; I tried to understand why this article was written. There are no good answers. This is propaganda for a terrorist. No less than what Cody did back in 1982. (He&#8217;s not the only one as Best of the Web today noted last week. In response Bookworm Room observed Only people who have broken free of any type of moral anchor could find equivalence in the nature of these “prisoners.” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jg</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/#comment-2819</link>
		<dc:creator>jg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=535#comment-2819</guid>
		<description>Betsy's Page links to a nice summary article on the subject of moral equivalence from (of all people) Alan Dershowitz. (link below)

Worth emphasizing:
"Part of the goal of organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas is to gain moral legitimacy for their terrorist tactics by having them equated with the conventional military tactics used by democratic regimes. Only the morally obtuse--or perverse--cannot recognize the difference between a terrorist group that targets civilian population centers with anti-personnel weapons designed to maximize civilian casualties and a democracy that seeks to prevent terrorism by employing smart bombs designed to minimize civilian casualties."
and humorously
-(on the subject of the GROSS VIOLATIONS of international relations by the UN itself):
(WITH A hat tip to Abban Eban)
'..as the late Abba Eban, the early Israeli ambassador to the UN, once put it: "If Algeria proposed a resolution that the Earth was flat and that Israel has flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 120 to 3, with 27 abstentions."'
-------
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0607250113jul25,0,1381784.story?coll=chi-newsopinioncommentary-hed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Betsy&#8217;s Page links to a nice summary article on the subject of moral equivalence from (of all people) Alan Dershowitz. (link below)</p>
<p>Worth emphasizing:<br />
&#8220;Part of the goal of organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas is to gain moral legitimacy for their terrorist tactics by having them equated with the conventional military tactics used by democratic regimes. Only the morally obtuse&#8211;or perverse&#8211;cannot recognize the difference between a terrorist group that targets civilian population centers with anti-personnel weapons designed to maximize civilian casualties and a democracy that seeks to prevent terrorism by employing smart bombs designed to minimize civilian casualties.&#8221;<br />
and humorously<br />
-(on the subject of the GROSS VIOLATIONS of international relations by the UN itself):<br />
(WITH A hat tip to Abban Eban)<br />
&#8216;..as the late Abba Eban, the early Israeli ambassador to the UN, once put it: &#8220;If Algeria proposed a resolution that the Earth was flat and that Israel has flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 120 to 3, with 27 abstentions.&#8221;&#8216;<br />
&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
<a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0607250113jul25,0,1381784.story?coll=chi-newsopinioncommentary-hed" rel="nofollow">http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0607250113jul25,0,1381784.story?coll=chi-newsopinioncommentary-hed</a></p>
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		<title>By: Don Quixote</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/#comment-2818</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Quixote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=535#comment-2818</guid>
		<description>Hi Clint,

     Do you honestly think that, on balance, the prisoners Israel takes in have done no more wrong that the soldiers their enemies captured?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Clint,</p>
<p>     Do you honestly think that, on balance, the prisoners Israel takes in have done no more wrong that the soldiers their enemies captured?</p>
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		<title>By: Laer</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/#comment-2820</link>
		<dc:creator>Laer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 04:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=535#comment-2820</guid>
		<description>Thanks for an amazing story, Bookworm.  It not only showed the evil brutality of the Islamofascists, but also the smirking compliance of mainstream media.

And, as a bonus, it proved how blind, biased and butt-headed the Left is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for an amazing story, Bookworm.  It not only showed the evil brutality of the Islamofascists, but also the smirking compliance of mainstream media.</p>
<p>And, as a bonus, it proved how blind, biased and butt-headed the Left is.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/#comment-2822</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 00:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=535#comment-2822</guid>
		<description>Of course there is no moral eq, that is why one Israeli soldier is worth 500 terroist prisoners. That is why trading one Israeli for 500 Hizbollah and Hamas terroists is the right thing to do (to channel the Left).

If they don't get you on moral eq, they'll get you in the exchange. Either way, catch 22. If they are morally equivalent, it justifies fukushou, revenge. If it is not equivalent, and Israelis are worth more than terroists, then when exchanging prisoners, 1 Israeli is the same as 500 hundred terroists in jail.

It's kind of geometrical in a way.

&lt;b&gt;As for occupation - I don’t know if you’ve been readin the news , but there is no occupation in Lebanon, and hasn’t been for six years. And, maybe you also missed this one, but there’s no occupation in Gaza, either;&lt;/b&gt;

You underestimate the power of doublthink and human self-denial if you believe that that actually is a reason for people to change their minds about occupation. I have first hand reports from the Left that it is still an occupation, because Israel controls access to Gaza. Catch 22s are designed to trap reason using people.

EIther way, catch 22s are designed so that you are dead if it is equivalent, and you are dead if it isn't equivalent. Death by grenade or death by suffocation, either way, they win, and you lose.

There's a way to beat catch 22 traps however, but most people lack the willpower to enact the solutions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course there is no moral eq, that is why one Israeli soldier is worth 500 terroist prisoners. That is why trading one Israeli for 500 Hizbollah and Hamas terroists is the right thing to do (to channel the Left).</p>
<p>If they don&#8217;t get you on moral eq, they&#8217;ll get you in the exchange. Either way, catch 22. If they are morally equivalent, it justifies fukushou, revenge. If it is not equivalent, and Israelis are worth more than terroists, then when exchanging prisoners, 1 Israeli is the same as 500 hundred terroists in jail.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind of geometrical in a way.</p>
<p><b>As for occupation - I don’t know if you’ve been readin the news , but there is no occupation in Lebanon, and hasn’t been for six years. And, maybe you also missed this one, but there’s no occupation in Gaza, either;</b></p>
<p>You underestimate the power of doublthink and human self-denial if you believe that that actually is a reason for people to change their minds about occupation. I have first hand reports from the Left that it is still an occupation, because Israel controls access to Gaza. Catch 22s are designed to trap reason using people.</p>
<p>EIther way, catch 22s are designed so that you are dead if it is equivalent, and you are dead if it isn&#8217;t equivalent. Death by grenade or death by suffocation, either way, they win, and you lose.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a way to beat catch 22 traps however, but most people lack the willpower to enact the solutions.</p>
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		<title>By: Marguerite</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/#comment-2821</link>
		<dc:creator>Marguerite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=535#comment-2821</guid>
		<description>Clint
I am not Bookworm, so I don't have to be nice.

It's late, it's hot, I don't even have the energy to be tolerant of your ignornat,  lame, whining, naive, boring, childish, whimpy, but OH-SO-TOLERANT-OF-EVIL-PERSONIFIED reply to On Moral Eqivalance.  It just really sucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clint<br />
I am not Bookworm, so I don&#8217;t have to be nice.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s late, it&#8217;s hot, I don&#8217;t even have the energy to be tolerant of your ignornat,  lame, whining, naive, boring, childish, whimpy, but OH-SO-TOLERANT-OF-EVIL-PERSONIFIED reply to On Moral Eqivalance.  It just really sucks.</p>
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		<title>By: YDS</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/#comment-2823</link>
		<dc:creator>YDS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=535#comment-2823</guid>
		<description>Clint,

In fact, Kuntar is about it as far as Lebanese prisoners in Israel go, since the rest were released in the last prisoner deal 3 years ago, when Hezbollah captured an Israeli civilian in Europe and the bodies of three fallen soldiers on the border, and Israel exchanged hundreds of prisoners for their return.

As for occupation - I don't know if you've been readin the news , but there is no occupation in Lebanon, and hasn't been for six years.  And, maybe you also missed this one, but there's no occupation in Gaza, either; Israel withdrew from that territory about a year ago (and doesn't even control the border crossing into Egypt, from whence Hamas gets its arms).  Yet the terror against Israel keeps coming from Gaza (not the West Bank, where Israel still maintains an occupation) and Lebanon (not Syria, which actually has territorial claims to press against Israel).

But thanks for playing the Hate Israel First Game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clint,</p>
<p>In fact, Kuntar is about it as far as Lebanese prisoners in Israel go, since the rest were released in the last prisoner deal 3 years ago, when Hezbollah captured an Israeli civilian in Europe and the bodies of three fallen soldiers on the border, and Israel exchanged hundreds of prisoners for their return.</p>
<p>As for occupation - I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve been readin the news , but there is no occupation in Lebanon, and hasn&#8217;t been for six years.  And, maybe you also missed this one, but there&#8217;s no occupation in Gaza, either; Israel withdrew from that territory about a year ago (and doesn&#8217;t even control the border crossing into Egypt, from whence Hamas gets its arms).  Yet the terror against Israel keeps coming from Gaza (not the West Bank, where Israel still maintains an occupation) and Lebanon (not Syria, which actually has territorial claims to press against Israel).</p>
<p>But thanks for playing the Hate Israel First Game.</p>
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		<title>By: Webloggin - Blog Archive &#187; On Moral Equivalence</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/#comment-2826</link>
		<dc:creator>Webloggin - Blog Archive &#187; On Moral Equivalence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=535#comment-2826</guid>
		<description>[...] [Read more and discuss&#8230;] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [Read more and discuss&#8230;] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/#comment-2825</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=535#comment-2825</guid>
		<description>There is no moral equivalence.

Outside the pea-brain of Kofi Annan, the democrat party, and the NY Times, that is.

I personally find them all easily dismissable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no moral equivalence.</p>
<p>Outside the pea-brain of Kofi Annan, the democrat party, and the NY Times, that is.</p>
<p>I personally find them all easily dismissable.</p>
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		<title>By: Bookworm</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/27/on-moral-equivalence/#comment-2824</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookworm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=535#comment-2824</guid>
		<description>Clint:  It really doesn't matter if, in war conflict, those soldiers had killed an enemy combatant.  For one thing, I don't have a problem with that, because that's the nature of war.  For another thing, they weren't kidnapped for their conduct.  They were simply kidnapped because they were soldiers in the wrong place at the wrong time -- much in the same way that Pfc. Thomas Lowell Tucker and Pfc. Kristian Menchaca were kidnapped.  And even though Qantar is merely one of many prisoners his existence alone makes it inequitable to compare prisoner exchanges.  In any event, keep in mind that, while he's one case, all of the other prisoners in Israel went through some form of due process.  Indeed, I doubt many of them would claim that they're innocent of the crimes they're alleged to have committed and for which they've been imprisoned.  Most would simply dispute that it's a punishable "crime" to massacre Israeli men, women and children in cold blood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clint:  It really doesn&#8217;t matter if, in war conflict, those soldiers had killed an enemy combatant.  For one thing, I don&#8217;t have a problem with that, because that&#8217;s the nature of war.  For another thing, they weren&#8217;t kidnapped for their conduct.  They were simply kidnapped because they were soldiers in the wrong place at the wrong time &#8212; much in the same way that Pfc. Thomas Lowell Tucker and Pfc. Kristian Menchaca were kidnapped.  And even though Qantar is merely one of many prisoners his existence alone makes it inequitable to compare prisoner exchanges.  In any event, keep in mind that, while he&#8217;s one case, all of the other prisoners in Israel went through some form of due process.  Indeed, I doubt many of them would claim that they&#8217;re innocent of the crimes they&#8217;re alleged to have committed and for which they&#8217;ve been imprisoned.  Most would simply dispute that it&#8217;s a punishable &#8220;crime&#8221; to massacre Israeli men, women and children in cold blood.</p>
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