Suffer the children, Part II

Drudge linked this morning to an article in Australia’s Herald Sun that displays a series of damning photographs showing Hezbollah terrorists, and their weapons of course, comfortably ensconced in a dense residential neighborhood.  The terrorists are dressed in comfy casuals, so that they can easily blend into the crowd.

Hezbollah didn’t end up in neighborhood by accident.  This strategic positioning is intended to deter Israel, which loaths civilian casualties, from destroying Hezbollah’s weapons.  And if that fails, it’s meant to increase civilian casualties, with the sheeplike Western media pointing the finger of blame at Israel rather than at Hezbollah, where it properly belongs.  In other words, Hezbollah is perfectly willing to see Arab civilians, especially children, die if it will make Israel look bad.

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  • http://www.whyweworry.com Clint

    If it’s true that Hezbollah does these things, then they are indeed terrible people and should be condemned for it. However, the photos from the article don’t prove it to me, nor does the insistence of supporters of Israel.

    Regardless, Israel has targeted civilian infrastructure and openly said they would. They have used cluster bombs and possibly phosphourous and seem to have little regard for civilian casualties.

    The crimes of Hezbollah, while detestable, do not concern me as much as the crimes of Israel. Why? Because, as a US citizen, I am responsible for those crimes. I can sit here and condemn Hezbollah till I’m blue in the face, but that’s easy. I am morally obligated to stop the crimes that are happening in my name. And, in the case of Israel, I believe those crimes FAR outweigh the crimes of Hezbollah and the Palestinian resistance.

  • http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/ Bookworm

    Clint:

    Why is it that what Israel, a sovereign nation does, happens in your name?

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  • http://ruminationsroom.wordpress.com/ Don Quixote

    Hi Clint,

    Can you point to a single example of Israel intentionally targeting civilians for the sake of targeting civilians (as opposed to targeting terrorists who were hiding among civilians)? They simply don’t do that. Yet you know there are hundreds of examples of Israel’s enemies targeting civilians in order to spread terror around the world. That’s their entire mode of operation.

    You comment that Israel seems to have little regard for civilian casualties. But it doesn’t target civilians, as its enemies do. And it doesn’t hide behind civilians, as its enemies do. What Isreal does say, and I believe rightly so, is it they will attack its enemies who are hiding behind civilians, even if that means killing the civilian shields.

    You know very well that with its firepower if Israel actually targeted civilians, as its enemies do, it would kill hundreds of thousands in less than a week. The very few civilian casualties in Lebanon (compared to what the casualties would be if Israel did target civilians) is striking testiment to Israel’s restraint. Israel’s enemies show no such restraint, yet escape your criticism. Why is that?

    What specific crimes has Israel committed that, in your opinion far outweigh the crimes of its enemies? What could outweigh decades of intentional targeting of civilians?

  • http://ymarsakar.blogspot.com/ Ymarsakar

    Don, why does it matter if Israel intentionally does it or not, because israel has more firepower, their ultimate damage count is a lot higher than is even Hizbollah’s intentional civilian targeting?

    Look at it from a utilitarian point of view Don. Israel has more firepower, therefore Israel de facto can and does inflict more civilian casualties in a short amount of time, compared to terroists. Can you not understand how utilitarians are more concerned with Israel’s firepower, that can kill many civilians, compared to Hizbollah’s power, which is limited and can’t do as much potential damage?

    Remember, utilitarians don’t respect the psychology argument of terrorism, only the numbers argument. Who more died, basically.

    Israel’s enemies show no such restraint, yet escape your criticism. Why is that?

    Personally, I think the answer lies in utilitarianism. What say you don? What could outweigh decades of civilian targeting? Well, utilitarianism teaches that intentions are trumped by consequences. Meaning, ontology goes against uh forgot what, but it was some kind of ontological argument going on there. Looking it up later.

  • http://TheSite.org Dodgy

    >Hi Clint,
    Can you point to a single example of Israel intentionally targeting civilians for the sake of targeting civilians (as opposed to targeting terrorists who were hiding among civilians)?

  • http://TheSite.org Dodgy

  • http://TheSite.org Dodgy

    >Israel’s enemies show no such restraint, yet escape your criticism. Why is that?

    They don’t escape criticism.

    With power comes repsonsibility.
    Israelso has shown it has one of those attributes, but so far is lacking in the other.

  • http://ymarsakar.blogspot.com/ Ymarsakar

    If Israel’s enemies don’t escape criticism, then why doesn’t Dodgy link to a video criticizing Israel’s enemies?

    Do people underestimate those who can use logic so much?

    I hate to break it to you dodgy, but not everyone is inept at espionage, sabotage, propaganda, psychology, and double handed dealings.

  • http://ymarsakar.blogspot.com/ Ymarsakar

    I promise Bookworm and Don, if I had the propaganda apparatus available to Palestine, convincing 25% of the Left you meet on the Internet, would be only a moderately hard thing for me to do. Unlike the impossible task Don finds it now.

    After you see too many propaganda clips and tradecraft/spycraft, you get hardened up to it. Emotional and psychological shock? Puhleez, I got over that. The rest of the world should as well. Because the world is vulnerable to psychological shock, I can convince them, it is still possible.

    Dodgy has shown two videos criticizing Israel, but then says he criticizes the other side as well. What kind of propaganda from the backarse moon of the solar system is that?

  • http://TheSite.org Dodgy

    >If Israel’s enemies don’t escape criticism, then why doesn’t Dodgy link to a video criticizing Israel’s enemies?

    Somebody asked for evidence of Israel intentionally targeting civilians and I supplied it. That’s why.

    You really shoudln’t jump to conclusions.

    You won’t find me defending the tactics of Hezbollah and Palestinian terrorists anywhere. The fact that Hezbollah hides amongst civillians disgusts me – in my eyes they are just as responsible for the civilian death as the Israelis dropping the bombs.

    >I promise Bookworm and Don, if I had the propaganda apparatus available to Palestine, convincing 25% of the Left you meet on the Internet, would be only a moderately hard thing for me to do. Unlike the impossible task Don finds it now.

    Your arrogance is breathtaking.

  • http://TheSite.org Dodgy

    >If Israel’s enemies don’t escape criticism, then why doesn’t Dodgy link to a video criticizing Israel’s enemies?

    Somebody asked for evidence of Israel intentionally targeting civilians. That’s why.

    We all know instances where Palestinians terrorists have attacked Israeli civillians, and you won’t find me defending them either.

    Hezbollah’s practice of firing rockets from behind civillian shields also disgusts me, and for me they have to share at least half the blame for the civillian deaths in Lebanon. Lets not forget though that Israel comenced bombing before a single Hezbollah rocket had been fired.

    I realise that Israel has to defend itself but I just cannot agree with the disproportionate action it’s taking at the moment.

  • http://TheSite.org Dodgy

    Double post. Sorry.

  • http://ymarsakar.blogspot.com/ Ymarsakar

    The conclusion is rather accurate. Because while Dodgy claims to not ignore Israel’s enemies when dishing out criticism, the facts of the behavior tell a different. This conclusion is not a leap, it’s a direct comparison, dodgy.

    If we all know instances of Palestinians targeting civilians, then why do we have to have you, dodgy, present us with videos from you tube for Israelis targeting civilians? Btw, those videos aren’t proof, even though their psychological shock in propaganda terms is a 10/10. Not too subtle though.

    I don’t like gang mentalities. Israel can take a proportional response, kill 5 for 5, 50 for 50, 500 for 500, 500 rockets for 500 bombs. But for some reason, I don’t think you’re going to be trying to stop the border war after your proportionate responses have been enacted.

    The thing is, you don’t like either side, so you’re one of the best people I can find that can give me reasoning for both sides to kill each other off. I’d prefer both sides didn’t kill each other off, if only because I’m on America’s side and America needs a second front next to Iraq.