Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

Brad Pitt, who hangs with the usual Hollywood crowd, and shares his life with anti-War expert Jolie, expressed surprise at the fruits of his peers’ efforts:

BRAD PITT discovered how unpopular America is across the globe when a group of drunk Dutchmen threatened to kill him because of his nationality. Pitt ran into the partygoers while he was in Amsterdam shooting OCEAN’S TWELVE, and the incident shocked him. He says, “I get a bike wherever I go and I went for a midnight ride around Amsterdam. There were some guys coming out of a bar having a good time. I said, ‘Excuse me,’ and swerved out of the way and they started screaming, ‘You f**king American. We’ll f**king kill you.’ “I’d never come face to face with that before – that turn in the way we are perceived in other countries.”

I’m sure, though, that we’ll soon hear Pitt, or some of his friends, opine about this being Bush’s fault.  He may well be right, of course.  Bush’s determined efforts to challenge jihadism, while Europe has for so long been determined to deny the problem, makes him as disliked as the little boy who first declared that the Emperor had no clothes.  While he spoke the truth, the courtiers bitterly resented having their self-deception pointed out.

By the way, apropos Brad Pitt, check out this funny blog entry.

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Comments

  1. says

    Hollywood is funny in a Nero psychotic sort of way. Course Pitt has bodyguards and money, which translates into influence and private transportation. It’s not like all the anti-American violence is going to touch him.

  2. jg says

    OReilly several years ago featured a Boston College professor and his wife who had studied global attitudes and found that most countries formed their images of America directly from Hollywood. No!!

    The professor found that youthful Taiwanese, for instance, liked Americans one on one, after the Hollywood stereotype was discarded.

    So much of the bad ideas about America COME FROM Hollywood, a la Brad Pitt. It’s merely POETIC justice, thugs should want to kill him for promoting their values.
    He’s reaping his whirlwind.

  3. says

    It would be poetic justice, but just like France, it ain’t going to be Chirac that gets burned in a bus. It is going to be innocent women and children.

    Hollywood is the worst of the image of decadence, weakness, and retarded spiritual atheism that people see of America. They see the power we have, and then they see the powerful in America having parties, glamour, and all the ga ga stuff capitalistic elite pigs are said to get. WITHOUT any of the martial virtues to back it up, without ruthlessness, without even a touch of courage to back up their “elite” status.

    This image is so very very different from the Marine Corps and Army Infantry branches. They party and play just as hard, but when they put the game face on, the mission then is all that matters next to their buddies. The demonstration of physical will and mental endurance, of physical fitness and intelligent adaptedness by the United States military is a beacon of power and strength. The light of a thousand suns, it renews and inspires, regardless of which country a person is in. The thugs of the endless dark would also be in awe, if they were to witness the brilliance of the US military unfettered by chains and limitations their political masters put upon them.

    True nobility may be found amongst the soldiers and protectors of America. It is the glue that holds America together, a belief in a military force that protects everyone. The trust that disillusioned New Orleans residents put in the National Guard speaks volumes of the fake liberal contempt and fear of putting soldiers on the border, in fear of atrocities and gestapo tactics. Good enough for New Orleans Americans, not good enough for the Mexican hostages held by the criminals and thugs for ransom.

    The powerful do not get their just deserts, because their power will always shield them from repercussions that the weak suffer in their stead. Only by stripping them of power, may you destroy them.

    CDR has up one of the best tributes to the US Navy, in history.

    http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2006/10/fullbore-friday_27.html

    And there’s a good video clip from the US Army on my blog site, if you want to check it out as well. One of the more recent posts.

    Hollywood is so fake. It is so, so fake. And people around this world knows this, they feel it, and it is natural to feel contempt for fakers and posers/poseurs. When face to face with Boots on the Ground, which is the real deal, then things change.

    Jolie hates guns. Yet she was the star in Tomb Raider. She is supposed to act out this “fantasy” about liking and using guns in defense of herself and in pursuit of her mission? And they treat it exactly like what it was. A fantasy, a fantasy staring a woman who hates guns and never uses them, in a fantastic story line about things that are not real. Contrast this with Firefly and you get a different picture, an unHollywood picture.

    Bookworm, you did watch Firefly right?

  4. T.S. says

    I’m sure, though, that we’ll soon hear Pitt, or some of his friends, opine about this being Bush’s fault. — Bookworm

    That would be as silly as thinking that anti-Americanism was the result of Hollywood actors, now, wouldnt it?

    Do you really beleive the Dutch dislike America and Americans because of Bush’s brave fight against Jihadism?

  5. says

    Isn’t T.S. the same guy who talks about big media mogul companies putting out the word cause they own the airwaves and have money? Now he is talking about Hollywood, the center of MONEY and Movies across the globe, not being part of any anti-American message that the world sees and ingests. Train derailment, nothing to see here.

  6. Oldflyer says

    I hate to disillusion Brad Pitt, but this is certainly nothing new. Either he has lived a sheltered existence abroad, or he is trotting this out now for political reasons.

    In my personal experience you could hear drunken Scots mouthing the same kinds of sentiments at USN Sailors–who had done nothing offensive and rarely visited Scotland, so it was not a burdensome U.S. presence to blame–during the Jimmy Carter years. There was such a strong anti-Americanism in Athens in the ’70s, that USN personnel were discouraged from wearing uniforms, or calling attention to themselves. Again the U.S. military had small presence in Athens.

    Even back to the 50s and early 60s you didn’t have to drink long with “friendly” Canadian Forces guys before masked was dropped and the anti-American drivel started to flow. I have encountered the resentment on a more subudued level in England, even during the Clinton years when we supposedly offended no one.

    I am neither a Pyschologist nor an Anthropologist so I won’t try to explain it. I just know that resentments, sometimes bordering on hatred, have existed for a long time; and in nominally friendly societies. A little alcohol will ususally bring it to the surface pretty quickly.

  7. T.S. says

    Now he is talking about Hollywood, the center of MONEY and Movies across the globe, not being part of any anti-American message that the world sees and ingests. – Ymar

    Thanks for putting words in my mouth, Ymar. Truth be told, they taste kind of stale.

    A synopsis:
    Blaming Brad Pitt and “his friends” for anti-Americanism is as simplistic and short-sighted as blaming George W. Bush.

  8. zhombre says

    Actually I think T.S. has a good point. The roots of anti Americanism go deeper than some current Hollywood movies and certainly predate either Brad Pitt or George W. Bush. For a century and a half America was where Europe dumped its excess and less desireable population: Irish, Slavs, Sicilians, Jews. Why would the feeling of contempt not be historic?

  9. expat says

    It’s true that the roots of anti-Americanism go way back, but Hollywood has done more than its fair share to feed the beast. Every time the celebs need to plug a movie in Europe, they give interviews to the local press in which they dump on America. Back home, no one hears what they said. But hey, if that’s what it takes to pay the rent on an African country rather than use a regular room in a US maternity ward, what can a poor down-to-earth celebrity do?

    Of course, Pitt will now be recognized as THE authority on anti-Americanism based on his single experience with a group of drunks.

  10. Zhombre says

    Expat, doesn’t the Euro press & media fairly consistently portray the U.S. in an unflattering light? Bruce Bawer touches on this in his recent books, and personally having watched CNN International while overseas a couple years ago, I will assert it won’t be mistaken for VOA. As I recall, the Arab oil states seemed to have bought a big chunk of broadcast influence. As for American celebs flogging their home country to plug a movie, well, as Dagon would say, that’s a business plan. A lot of movies do poor box office stateside but make a lot of money in foreign distribution (stats are readily available at BoxOfficeMojo.com).

  11. expat says

    Zhombre,

    “Doesn’t the Euro press …”

    They sure do. Davids Medienkritik gives lots of examples. Of course, there are some fair journalists, but the wider the audience, the sleazier the coverage. I think what bothers me the most is serious reporting that doesn’t give enough background. For instance, a court decision will be reported, but the grounds won’t; it comes over as a win or lose for Bush, even if it is a very narrowly framed decision. Sometimes a story about a power outage in a sparsely populated state is a followed by a snide remark about America not burying all its electric wires. No info is given about the distances and the costs–we are simply retarded.

    There is also overreporting on America, and no context about the situation in other countries. Everyone “knows” that Bush has abused legal rights with the Patriot Act, but no one is aware of how long the French hold suspected terrorists without trial. Every burp in America can be heard in Europe, which makes it seem like we are the only country with problems.

    Finally, there are things that are never reported to the masses, like oil for food or the actual incidence of car burnings in France.

    I’ve read several articles by Bawer, and I found his observations and analyses to be accurate.

  12. says

    There is a disconnect between saying that anti-Americanism predates Bush and Pitt, and saying that it is silly to attempt to call Hollywood to account for their behavior. On the basis, via TS’s logic, that since you can’t call Bush to account for his anti-American behavior, you can’t do the same for Hollywood either. Since the logc doesn’t parse, because it is tu quoque, you got to find something better. There’s no point here other than a gangrenous causing rusted rod.

    That would be as silly as thinking that anti-Americanism was the result of Hollywood actors, now, wouldnt it?

    Silly either means it has no relevance whatsoever, or it means that Bush is not responsible for anti-Americanism, so this means Hollywood isn’t either. Skid problems. Why would one be true, causing the other to be true?

    While anti-Americanism is a historical perspective by European elites, it is the decadence shown and presented as America via Hollywood movies, consumed throughout the world, that allows elite media in Europe and other places to reinforce their message of American weakness and decadence to the common folks. The common folks don’t remember anything back past more than 50 years. The intellectuals may harbor anti-American sentiment going back to the Revolutionary War, but that is the elites. A small portion.

    Why would common folks in Canada and Europe, while getting drunk, start spouting off anti-American propaganda unless Hollywood and their own media were reinforcing anti-American stereotypes from cradle to grave? Remember Mel Gibson, all that stuff just comes flying out once the barriers are down, all the stuff he learned while young and vulnerable. Europeans see America, daily, as dirty, poor, and arse backwards. There is nothing in Hollywood that they see, that is inconsistent with the message they hear day in and day out, for decades on. Americans are materialistic, shallow, money grubbers, so on and so forth.

    Every time the celebs need to plug a movie in Europe, they give interviews to the local press in which they dump on America.

    Like expat said. They are not insulting you. They are just agreeing with your Elite Leaders in how sorry a state America is. See, America is so bad, even their rich folks are dumping ship. See, our propaganda was right, let’s keep on trucking, is what they think. Not consciously, cause most Europeans don’t think of anything consciously, too busy with their vacations and riots. But unconsciously, while drunk, when the social graces are gone, then the ugly comes out. The stuff they know to be true, but won’t say it to your face if they were fully cognizant.

    The pro-Americans in Europe are shut down because all the anti-Americans have to say to rebut the positions of American lovers is to point to Hollywood and say that even Americans agree that America sucks. Propaganda works best by silencing the opposition, Zhombre. If you don’t silence the opposition, bad things can happen, like (Rather Gate).

    Hollywood has the money, the spiritual leadership, and the connections. All that is necessary to produce intense rage and hatred against America, which is their bread and butter for whatever reasons. The elite in Europe will always despise America for our middle class values and common man focus on individual rights and dignity. But it took Hollywood to convert the proletariat in Europe, into seeing America as the glitz and glamor of the ultimate capitalistic waste of resources, epitomized by Hollywood and reinforced by Hollywood tours in Europe. America was seen as slow and weak before WWII. The gains won in WWII have almost all been depleted. It may have taken 50 years, but still.

    You hear Europeans and Canadians always say that they love Americans. So why the hate and anger? Why the rudeness when Americans aren’t present, why the venting towards America as the be all and end all of all problems? Somebody must have tied in a lot of propaganda value in anti-American Hollywood conduct for there to be such a complete commonality in this world. As with terrorism and guerrila warfare. There is always three wings. The military wing, the political wing, and the spiritual wing. Hollywood comprises the major influence of the spiritual wing along with writers and other intellectuals, Democrats and Socialists are the political wing, and Revolutionary Militias the military wing. They all work together, across the globe. Al Qaeda blows up something for the Revolution, some riots in France for the Revolution, the Democrats benefit.

  13. Danny Lemieux says

    I have an idea – everytime that an American soldier or ordinary American citizen gets kidnapped by the jihadis, we offer to swap 10 Hollywood Libs for the one brave American citizen/soldier. We know that the Jihadis admire bravery and detest atheist infidels – I’ll bet they would all jump at the chance – it’s win-win-win: the American soldier goes free, the Lefty Libs rub elbows their hero representatives of the oppressed anti-BushChimpyHitlerMcHaliburton underclass, and the jihadis get 10 beheadings for the release of one. Allahuh Akbar! Any ideas who we should swap first?

  14. T.S. says

    There is a disconnect between saying that anti-Americanism predates Bush and Pitt, and saying that it is silly to attempt to call Hollywood to account for their behavior. On the basis, via TS’s logic, that since you can’t call Bush to account for his anti-American behavior, you can’t do the same for Hollywood either. — Ymar

    Um, no. What I am saying is that the root causes of anti-Americanism run deep — and to point to either Brad Pitt or George W. Bush is ridulous.

    But if you want to hold Brad Pitt to account, that’s fine by me. But everyone knows it’s really George Clooney’s fault. :::insert sarcastic eyeroll here:::

    One thing to remember: There is a reason entertainment is America’s Number Two export. And it’s really quite simple: Our movies kick other countries’ movies asses.

    But, hey, if you’re lucky, maybe in time, everyone will think the way you do and movies will reflect only the values you want them to. And while the U.S will lose out on yet another front, those damn Lefties will FINALLY shut the hell up.

  15. jg says

    Allahuh Akbar! Any ideas who we should swap first?) (Danny, you set this off below.)

    AP (Not): It was reported that armed Bush patrols had invaded the homes of several well-known Hollywood celebrities and hauled the incredulous stars off to waiting planes.

    The re introduction of the Victim lottery, modelled after the draft version of several decades ago, had provoked cries of anger and self righteousness. Let them kill our military was the cry. The ACLU was mustering troops. Many publicists are being yanked along with their clients to several eager militias awaiting them overseas.

    Iran has promised that it fully respects the rights of sacrificial victims. Its minions will gladly cooperate in the joint venture. The body will be left on the street, thence to be returned in its natural state.

    Hollywood lay in silence this evening, visceral fear apparent. Stones were thrown by a few motley types, but Bush press gangs had cleared much of the area.

    Many Hollywood studios beefed up security forces, vowing they will resist. Fifteen more ‘kill the bastard’ movies are scheduled to hit the screens before the holidays. The studios promises a PG rating, although an unrated and a “Hyper-violent” version will be available for Democrats.

    The victim count remains 10 Hollywoodians a month, but the Pentagon slams reports of decreases, calling it negative reporting from the MSM. It is promising the number will go up.

    A new FOX reality show for Halloween will allow viewers to choose their favorite HOllywoodian and then select his/her Epitaph. Farewells, tributes, and flowers will add an air of celebration to the undertakings.

    Halloween gore details:

    The UK, home to Al Gore, welcomed expatriate stars, fleeing by the hundreds. There are traffic jams outside Heathrow. A refugee camp has been established in the Islamic heart of London. K. Livingstone vowed to fight Bushism to the bloody end. Hate, he cried!
    Livingstone, however, faces resistance from many English who despise Hollywood more. (It is known that Muslims feel more strongly.) Stories have been leaked of a secret slave ring dedicated to smuggling the famous back to America. It said that Shirley Jackson’s daughter (president of the Lottery board) awaits them and gives the sobbing stars a safe home in the same upscale facility Martha Stewart made famous.

    Polls show that most Americans feel the country will be in the long run a better place.

  16. says

    People who were for the position that anti-American had different and deeper roots, said so. All you did, TS, was start vague and then after the fact, start talking about what your position was all along. Your position was about not being silly, that was about all in all. You don’t apply the same thinking to anything else you have, so it is not as if it is something one could predict based upon a pattern.

  17. Danny Lemieux says

    I had to wipe the coffee off my keyboard after reading JG’s post! Back when I was a student in the 70s, I had a Saudi friend who gravely explained to me how the U.S. government and, especially, the CIA manipulated oil prices and killed people who got in the way. He “knew” it because he had seen Robert Redford’s “Three Days of the Condor”. I wonder if Redford spends a lot of time wondering why “they hate us”. Recently, a Somali taxi driver informed a friend that, in Somalia, he had been taught how Americans didn’t have families and made their kids wander the streets in poverty. Think of all the Hollywood movies that portray tribes of kids with nary a parent to be found. We look at movies like “The Crow” or ” Batman” as fantasy, others overseas look at the background decor and believe that it is the “real” America. Now, think about all the anti-American, anti-U.S. government movies that come out of Hollywood and consider that a large part of the uneducated world (including Eurabia) takes them as the gospel truth. It’s no wonder that they hate us.

  18. T.S. says

    Is Hollywood to blame? Or could anti-Americanism stem (at least a teensy tiny bit) from boneheaded foreign policy blunders?

    Here’s a clue: From the book, “All The Shah’s Men” by Stephen Kinzer:

    “One day I attended a book party for an older Iranian woman who had written her memoirs. . . After she finished speaking, I couldn’t resist the temptation to ask a question. ‘You mentioned Mossadegh,’ I said. ‘What do you remember, or what can you tell us, about the coup against him?’ She immediately became agitated and animated.

    ‘Why did you Americans do that terrible thing?’ she cried out. ‘We always loved America. To us, America was the great country, the perfect country, the country that helped us while others were exploiting us. But after that moment, no one in Iran ever trusted the United States again. I can tell you for sure that if you had not done that thing, you would never have had that problem of hostages being taken in your embassy in Tehran. All your trouble started in 1953. Why, why did you do it?’”

  19. says

    Or could anti-Americanism stem (at least a teensy tiny bit) from boneheaded foreign policy blunders?

    That wouldn’t have anything to do with the silly proclamation that anti-Americanism is Bush’s fault cause of his war adventures, does it?

  20. says

    David reports on German problems. Mellanie Phillips and Dalrymphrae (something like it) reports on Britain. We have others reporting on France, in France.

    Such sources of primary information would not have been possible without the internet.

  21. T.S. says

    Or could anti-Americanism stem (at least a teensy tiny bit) from boneheaded foreign policy blunders? – Me

    That wouldn’t have anything to do with the silly proclamation that anti-Americanism is Bush’s fault cause of his war adventures, does it? — Ymar

    Um, no. It goes all the way back to the early 1950s, which is why I included the quote about Mossadegh.

    Simplistic “Left Vs Right” thinking is silly and pronouncements about either George Bush or Brad Pitt ignore a substantial chunk of history that has led to this point.

  22. T.S. says

    So it isn’t just Bush’s fault, it is all the other Americans in the past that contributed to anti-Americanism. I see. Starting from perhaps Hollywood 1960s.- Ymar

    In part, anti-Americanism stems from boneheaded foreign policy blunders. And, yes, movies like “the Quiet American” shine a spotlight on those blunders. (Maybe in the future it will be against the law to do so. Would that make you happy?)

    So, you see, while some might believe that the phrase “Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap,” applies solely to Brad Pitt and dreadful Hollywood lefties, others know better.

    “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever” – Thomas Jefferson

    “Nations, like inidivduals, are punished for their transgressions.” — Ulysses S. Grant

  23. jg says

    ‘So, you see, while some might believe that the phrase “Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap,” applies solely to Brad Pitt and dreadful Hollywood lefties’

    TS, you are sadly misled. It applies to you, and ALL the Left. WE as a country are reaping the whirlwind for YOUR sins. And the truth is letting YOU know it.

    The Left means death.

    “In part, anti-Americanism stems from boneheaded foreign policy blunders”

    Nonsense. The stability and strength of the world rests on all that America has done right (RIGHT) since WWII. I doubt you know your own history. You attack your own country, which is despicable and shameful. Your litany of sins are the Left’s OWN sins, of blood and murder.

    You, as your terrorist friends in Iraq, are full of death. especially for the innocent.

  24. T.S. says

    TS, you are sadly misled. It applies to you, and ALL the Left. WE as a country are reaping the whirlwind for YOUR sins. And the truth is letting YOU know it.- Jg

    My sins? Yes, people across the world hate the U.S. because of me.

    What matters, in the end, is the truth. And from where I sit, neither the so-called left nor the so-called right is in possession of it.

    God is, however. Which is extremely comforting.

    ” You, as your terrorist friends in Iraq, are full of death. especially for the innocent.”

    You know what I hate about the left? That you can’t discuss a damn thing with them without having them resort to personal attacks.

  25. says

    From where I’m sitting, you’re not in the middle. You are sort of out of phase with most of the points of reference in this universe.

    (Maybe in the future it will be against the law to do so. Would that make you happy?)

    Maybe in the future, people would start to understand that freedom of speech isn’t a suicide compact nor an excuse to ally with the enemy, in order to further your own personal ambition, over that of your countrymen’s.

    “Nations, like inidivduals, are punished for their transgressions.” — Ulysses S. Grant

    Burn, France, burn.

    It isn’t about knowing your history, jg. People can read the same textbooks on history and come up with 180 degree interpretations and conclusions based upon the same material. It is just the human condition, because nobody lives the same life twice. Our life experiences and all the thoughts we have ever had, shapes our beliefs and our thinking to a great extent.

    You know what I hate about the left? That you can’t discuss a damn thing with them without having them resort to personal attacks.

    Comment by T.S. | October 31, 2006

    Which is why I like it here and back when neo neo con was new. Lots of people on the right, who may have their problems, but are a lot more polite and reasonable than the crazies on the left. There is far less psychological angst, and since I never liked the psychological profession as a job, it is great not to have to deal with other people’s personal problems manifesting on the internet as “Rage On” moments. And even if I don’t like the right, there are many classical liberals around the right, that might be more my cup of tea.

  26. says

    TS, anyone who actually cared about saving innocent lives, would have responded to the accussation that they were heartless, with real life examples of when they supported and helped innocent people. They don’t do as you do, which is evade and brush off the substantive accussation that you really don’t care about innocent life, you just say you do. Everything you support, you say will help the innocent, but both logic and the facts contradict those claims.

  27. T.S. says

    TS, anyone who actually cared about saving innocent lives, would have responded to the accussation that they were heartless, with real life examples of when they supported and helped innocent people. – Ymar

    That would be the response of a ninny, Ymar. God knows my heart. And what I’ve done. The minute I try to boast is the moment He will most likely choose to give me a crash course in Humility.

    But I sure would like it if someone addressed the points I’m making – i.e that the roots of anti-Americanism run deep – and that nothing is as simplistic as it’s George Bush’s or Brad Pitt’s fault.

    Instead I’m treated to personal attacks, which is a common complaint I read here regarding the Big Bad Left.

  28. zhombre says

    Frankly I agree with you, TS, that the roots of anti Americanism run deep though I don’t see a direct line from Mossadegh in 1953 to sloshed Dutchmen chasing Brad Pitt’s butt in 2006. I doubt we’d agree on all the roots. Some enmity toward America is based on specific actions (in a fallen world, every country has its sins), but I will assert much of it is purely irrational.

  29. jg says

    TS wants to say:

    “My sins? Yes, people across the world hate the U.S. because of me.”

    Indeed they might, TS. Your country is in a struggle with men in the field trying to defend ALL OF US from harm. And yet you attack US, not the enemy. Truthfully, now.

    What good have YOU done for your country? Have you represented its GOOD points to those, here and abroad, that attack it? Have you prayed for the men and women who shield you? (you do mention God below). Have you tried to use its GOOD points to fix problems? You know, this is a democracy where each citizen’s mind and heart count. So, tell us about YOUR civic participation (be brief).

    How you have said to those abroad, ‘here is how my country is good.’

    SHOULD your PERSONAL ideology keep you from defending your country, YES, you are to blame for the lies and killings the enemy pours on us. You HAVE to fight the enemy, too.
    —-
    “God is, however.”

    Nice of you to resort to him. Most Leftists abhor Him.

    But, which god? You know your communist cousins had secular gods. Their bodies lay entombed at the center of Moscow. And Hitler was a living god to himself for the Fatherland. As for Allah, well, he is god to some..
    So, please be more specific!
    —–
    “That you can’t discuss a damn thing with them without having them resort to personal attacks.”

    I AGREE! Kos is one THOSE terrible LEFTIST sites just for that reason.

    Good for you. You are on your way to becoming a thinking individual, rather than one who spouts garbage. You are in a good place to replace your ideological blinkers– or stupidity– for some decent discussion.

  30. says

    That would be the response of a ninny, Ymar. God knows my heart. And what I’ve done. The minute I try to boast is the moment He will most likely choose to give me a crash course in Humility.
    An excuse not to have a good argument. It is not because you are too lazy, it is because you are too humble, eh?

    The complaint against the Left is that the Left doesn’t have any good arguments, so they resort to personal attacks just for the kick and joy of not having to come up with anything really substantial. It gets out the angst.

    But I sure would like it if someone addressed the points I’m making – i.e that the roots of anti-Americanism run deep – and that nothing is as simplistic as it’s George Bush’s or Brad Pitt’s fault.

    You can’t even explain why you think it is simplistic, other than saying God requires you to be humble. Even a short logical analysis of your reasoning, has shown that if it is silly to blame Pitt as it is silly to blame Bush, then this means it is not silly to blame everyone who came before Bush and it is not silly to blame everyone who came before Pitt. But that wasn’t your position, your position was that Hollywood was defacto not the problem. And you sticked to it via repeating the claim about Pitt, as if Pitt matters or represents everyone and everything in this universe.

    You might be behind the times, TS, but the points about anti-Americanism has already been addressed here. You’ve just ignored it in favor of your own interpretations, so instead of engaging the debate, you cut off the parts that you don’t like to talk about, and the rest you call “the points you are making”.

    You, TS might be upset over jg, but I notice that you are talking to me about it, as if I have something to do with it, or anyone else here. So instead of engaging the problem you present as the problem, you sort of dance around the issue and try to make it the problem of the bystanders.

    If you want to complain about being personally attacked, TS, for propaganda points, then you really cannot honestly say with any virtue of humility or honesty, that this proves anything other than your willingness to use anything and everything to further your position.

    This is about, and has always been about, your inherent belief that the Left and the Right are the way you see things, bar nothing. Your inability to explain or theorize your theories, are seen by you as a trait of humility in tribute to God.

    None of that is useful to anyone, except yourself, TS. So why do you act as if it should matter to anyone other than yourself? Why do you act as if jg’s attacks on you, should be something the Left or the Right here should care about? It is about you after all, and even if it isn’t, then it is about your view that you are right in the position you take. So either way, it is about you. It doesn’t affect anyone else.

    Telling the truth isn’t boasting, TS. If you understood this, Iraq and war strategy might figure more into your thinking than just this unnecessary evasion act you do with the Left and Right idols.

  31. T.S. says

    Your inability to explain or theorize your theories, are seen by you as a trait of humility in tribute to God. – Ymar

    Wow. I dont wish to divulge charitable contributions and or personal information and that means I can’t explain my position on anti-Americanism?

    That’s ridicuolus.

    People can boast all day long about who they give money and time to, but such talk is tacky. God knows what I’ve done that’s how it should be. God also prefers people to pray in private, no?

    That is part of my moral code, and I’m not about to compromise it to satisfy you.

    But, if you really want to know, (without the personal nonsense) here is what I think

    1. Anti-Americanism is complex and runs deep.
    2. Some complaints about America (like the long list of coups carried out from 1953 onward) are valid.
    3. Nations, like people, suffer consequences for their actions.
    4.Foreign Policy mistakes and the resulting blowback contribute to anti-Americanism more often than Hollywood movies or actors.
    5. The problem predates George W, Bush and today’s crop of actors.

    If this seems vague, I’ll expound on any one of these points if you like. And if this isn’t useful to anyone but me, I wont bother. That’s not laziness. It’s just common sense.

  32. T.S. says

    SHOULD your PERSONAL ideology keep you from defending your country, YES, you are to blame for the lies and killings the enemy pours on us. You HAVE to fight the enemy, too.- –

    Here’s the Thing: I dont believe that God sees borders or countries when he looks at His creation. And, secondly, I dont believe that the war in Iraq satisfies Just War Criteria.

    Before the war in Iraq, the Pope concluded that the war in Iraq was unjust as did most American churches. The Miami Herald ran and article entitled, “War in Iraq is wrong, 51 church leaders say,” and addressed the significance of just war theory. The conclusion? According to a letter written to Mr Bush by leaders of the Episcopal, Evangelical Lutheran, United Methodist, Presbyterian (USA) and Orthodox churches they believed “it is wrong . . . to take such action.”

    The Pope also warned against the war in Iraq. As the Vatican put it: “Those who decide that all peaceful means that international law makes available are exhausted assume a grave responsibility before God, their conscience and history.”

    In other wars, the Pope thought preventative war in Iraq was sinful and wrong. I agree.

    But, since you insist on placing your own prejudices regarding “leftists” onto me, I’ll provide a more secular reference:

    “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.”- Thomas Jefferson

  33. T.S. says

    “I doubt we’d agree on all the roots. Some enmity toward America is based on specific actions (in a fallen world, every country has its sins), but I will assert much of it is purely irrational.” – Zhombre

    Actually, I agree with you here, too. Yes, a lot of anti-Americanism is irrational. But it also seems irrational to say that blowback is Hollywood’s fault.

  34. Zhombre says

    No, to a degree Hollywood is culpable, and there’s a rational basis for that assertion. Hollywood movies are a highly exportable commodity, and many of the images and ideas embedded in movies are assimilated in other parts of the world, for good or bad. I read somewhere that young male Arab audiences loved Rambo. I simply would not argue that Hollywood is the sole culprit, or that if we could just “fix” Hollywood our problems with perception in the rest of the world would vanish. Anti American sentiment predates moving pictures. It has deeper roots than agit-prop conveyed in pop culture.

  35. jg says

    TS, thanks for your literate reply.

    “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.”- Thomas Jefferson
    Well, I see that quote a lot in my recent book perusals. I think many believe it refers to the sin of slavery.

    Most modern historians have trouble talking with the Founding Fathers about slavery. What’s fascinating about our American history is that Jefferson is held up for emulation, but, my current interest, John Adams, hated slavery passionately. His late letter to Jefferson about the subject (I think) went unanswered.

    Actually, Just War is at the heart of of America’s history. Read all the wonderful oratory and documents from the Revolution.
    IT is now; it was then. Better minds than mine have argued today’s case; most from the RC church. Benedict, you realise, does differ from JOhn Paul on this. Islam must be confronted, he seems to lead, and the RC church, right or wrong, has always led that fight.

    So, I will speak from my American heritage. I believe we have a responsibility to fight (fight) for a sane world. Not to go to the UN; not to ask our allies; not to have the approval of the world. (Americans have acted always on what THEY BELIEVED. That is part of our Founding. No American can shirk that.) IF we are the policemen are the world, so be it. Iraq is better, the Middle EAst is better, the world is better for our efforts. Because WE, as the Coalition, have been willing to take a stand for civilisation.

    We have been the soldier-at-ready ever since World War II. Despite all the badness in the world, OUR presence (through the Hands of God) has made a better world. No?

    Just take a look at some vile historical alternatives, from nuclear winter; to Communist enslaved South America and Africa; to an occupied Europe, to name a few.

    We remain a good people, in submission to God, who try to follow His Ways through our history. We stumble. Especially for huge chunks of time since Vietnam. We have wandered badly over that Lie and lost our faith. And ourselves. So the Left in America, born during the Vietnam era, are really lost, faithless Americans, who hate their country (and maybe themselves) more than a demonic enemy.

    From the Puritans to our Founding Fathers, Lincoln to T. Roosevelt, to Wilson and F. Roosevelt, then Kennedy, Reagan and Bush, Americans have tried to follow our Founding.

    Each leader saw that differently.
    NONE disagreed on the goodness of our people, our history, and our purpose. Americans discuss our mistakes; other countries re write their history. (Sadly, some Americans are misguided enough to try that, too. Soviet-like..) We have made many bad choices recently, leading to 9/11.

    Thankfully many Americans have remained faithful. Some of them are on the ground in Iraq. That faith has helped George Bush preserve our safety a bit longer. A protection we will lose all too soon.

    The irrationality of the Left has hurt America in foreign policy. It has given our enemies heart, it has destabilized the world, it threatens all of our families.
    So, with other Americans, I will fight any attempt to surrender our dreams for a good and peaceful Middle East.
    Iraq is an olive branch.

    Islamic fascism promises that if we surrender, the next move will be nuclear. Oh, not us, at first; but Israel. The genii will be really out of the bottle. But then us.

    TS, THEY tell us so.

    And all the fears of the Left will come true.

    How will the Left live with that, all that nuclear horror, which THEY refused to prevent. How will the Left LIE about these additional deaths? Only by more violence and hatred, their prime weapons.
    And they will have caused their nightmares of a ruined world to have come true for all of us.

  36. T.S. says

    Islamic fascism promises that if we surrender, the next move will be nuclear. Oh, not us, at first; but Israel. The genii will be really out of the bottle. But then us.

    TS, THEY tell us so. –JG

    Yes, I know. They want to kill us. And the more the merrier.

    But I think that the war in Iraq has actually made that scenario more possible. Here’s why:

    Although this didnt get much press in the mainstream media, nuclear material and machinery (which had been in Iraq thanks to earlier attempts build a nuclear energy plant and Iraq’s pre-1991 nuclear program) went missing after the U.S. invasion.”Why were these [nuclear] sites not guarded? Not enough troops. We launched an invasion to prevent dangerous materials from being exported to terror groups or enemy regimes. And yet we stood by as exactly this happened – on our watch. Unbelievable. Unforgivable,” Andrew Sullivan wrote on Oct. 15, 2004

    “Equipment which could be used in an illicit nuclear bomb program has disappeared from previously monitored sites in Iraq,” the Guardian explained, referring to the machinery that was dismantled and carted away.

    Jon Wolfsthal, a proliferation expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace explained why this is of concern. “It’s equipment that is very specialized, very hard to come by, that’s tightly controlled, so it could be very helpful for [those] seeking to build weapons,” he told the Christian Science Monitor. “It’s very troubling that any of this stuff should be unprotected, let alone go missing,” he said, adding that only specialized items were lifted, suggesting that “it wasn’t just the work of looters, but that there was some strategic purpose.”

    This equipment is thought to have landed in Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, the Netherlands — and possibly even Iran, which could use it for its fledgling program. “Looking at the state of Iraq’s nuclear program, [the stolen machinery] wouldn’t be particularly useful to a country with an advanced program,” nuclear terrorism expert Michael Levi told the Christian Science Monitor. “But there is a danger it can be used to fill gaps. Sometimes there are holes [in budding programs], and they can be filled.” And, as as the Guardian explained, “Iran is widely suspected of conducting a clandestine bomb project and might be keen to obtain some of the sophisticated engineering equipment on the loose in Iraq.”

    Moreover, according to diplomats with ties to the IAEA, the process of dismantling these sites, which most likely continued throughout 2003 and into 2004, took considerable time and planning. “We’re talking about dozens of sites being dismantled,” a diplomat said on condition of anonymity. “Large numbers of buildings taken down, warehouses were emptied and removed. This would require heavy machinery, demolition equipment. This is not something that you’d do overnight.”

    Can you understand why many of us feel that the war in Iraq has made us more vulnerable?

    Oh, and many experts believe a nucelar attack will occur:

    “If a 10-kiloton terrorist nuclear weapon explodes beside the New York Stock Exchange or the U.S. Capitol, or in Times Square, as many nuclear experts believe is likely in the next decade, then the next 9/11 commission will write a devastating critique of how we allowed that to happen.” — Nicholas Kristof, “The Nuclear Shadow,” The New York Times, Aug. 14, 2004

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