This is what I’ve been saying all along

Over the months, I’ve denigrated Western global hysteria on the ground that whatever we do is irrelevant. China (and possibly India) will make the difference. To pat myself on the back, I was right:

Far more than previously acknowledged, the battle against global warming will be won or lost in China, even more so than in the West, new data show.

A report released last week by Beijing authorities indicated that as its economy continues to expand at a red-hot pace, China is highly likely to overtake the United States this year or in 2008 as the world’s largest emitter of greenhouse gases.

This information, along with data from the International Energy Agency, the Paris-based alliance of oil importing nations, also revealed that China’s greenhouse gas emissions have recently been growing by a total amount much greater than that of all industrialized nations put together.

“The magnitude of what’s happening in China threatens to wipe out what’s happening internationally,” said David Fridley, leader of the China Energy Group at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.

“Today’s global warming problem has been caused mainly by us in the West, with the cumulative (carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases) in the atmosphere, but China is contributing to the global warming problem of tomorrow.”

To think that St. Al didn’t know about this China factor is ludicrous. This fact lends more credibility to the growing belief that Bore’s climate hysteria is predicated on his carbon offset business, which will become every more meaninglessly “important” as he pours pretend dollars into little factories in the Far East, and gets real dollars in his pocket.

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  • BigAL

    haha :) LOL — maybe Fox News should bring back Chuck Norris to fill in for Hannity again. I’m sure he’d be unstoppable in any debate regarding Global Warming and the way Al Gore is doing this for profits.

    You are hilarious BW, there’s no arguing with complete and utter Bull S$%T!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?
    v=MAPZFqFZy6A&mode=related&search=

  • BigAL

    there it is, this one should work.

    There is no such thing as global warming. Chuck Norris was cold, so he turned the sun up.

    There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

  • http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/ Bookworm

    BigAL, I’ve never denied global warming. I have (a) questioned whether it’s all our fault, or just part of the earth’s regular and natural climate evolution; and (b) noted that as China and India become more industrialized, nothing we in the west do will really matter. I think this article adequately makes that second point.

  • JJ

    I’m happy to deny global warming, Al. So are most of the genuine scientists who might actually know something about it. They regfer to it as “climate change” these days, and assume it’s part of the cycle.

    Interesting documentary coming this Sunday on BBC channel 4, wherein a bunch of the more respected names in the field will assert that it’s all BS. (Though, come to think of it, you probably don’t get BBC-4 – but it’ll be here soon enough.) It has a line-up of actual scientists in the field for which Al Gore would cheerfully sacrifice Tipper.

    And it is a fact that by 2008 China – which was exempted from that farce in Kyoto – will have passed the US as the largest producer of carbon dioxide on the planet.

  • http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/index.html Steve

    Global Warming doesn’t exist.

    It is the Great Lie of the 21st Century.

    http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/index.html

  • JJ
  • Zhombre

    Regardless of whether one believes or disbelieves in Global Warming, the Kyoto treaty in exempting India and China did nothing to address the problem anyway. It was more about deindustrializing, and lowering the standard of living in, the West than it was about addressing global climate change; more about penance than progress; and none of the industrialized countries that have signed on to it have achieved the stated goals in reducing emissions. Kyoto is a modern way of saying Ship of Fools, the medieval metaphor for human folly.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    We like chuck norris. Stop the hating, hater.

    maybe Fox News should bring back Chuck Norris

    Get this.

    BigAl goes on about the military industrial complex and whatever conspiracies he ate for breakfast, but he seems to think that people can siphon off funds on a global scale and that is okay… One reason why scale doesn’t seem to matter to the believers is because their beliefs don’t scale on this plane of reality.

    If you listen to B’s youtube video with Chuck Norris, you have the guy being interviewed saying that he appreciates and likes the security of being able to walk down the street without being afraid… Okay. So obviously he doesn’t care who provides the security or how… he just wants it. We can work with that. On a military industrial level of course.

    The point is, everyone wants the same thing, but most of the differences is in who they want it for. B wants it for his side, period.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    Listening to Allan is like hearing bombs go off. It has a certain faint unsettling feeling to it.

    Unfortunately, Hannity has Allan’s problem. Norris is good, like the Colonel.

    Global Warming? It’s a trick by the military industrial complex to make more money!

  • Kurt

    B-b-b-but that’s not possible. Didn’t Gore, in his Academy Award winning film, wax ecstatic about the Chinese and their intelligence and research capabilities regarding global warming? How they were headed in the right direction?

    Was that not true? Was he fooled by the wiley Chinese?

  • BigAL

    whose side Y? the environment’s side? the place we live and are a part of? how is our environment a side that can be taken? why is black soot (caused by the internal combustion engine) something we should be OK with when we know it can be significantly reduced, if not eliminated, on a mass scale over time.

    and just because there are larger countries that will have more of an impact on future pollution…what the hell does that have to do with us? have you ever heard of doing on to others as we would like others to do to us? have you ever heard of doing something because it is right? have you ever heard of looking at YOURSELF, YOUR COMMUNITY, YOUR STATE, YOUR COUNTRY before sitting in judgment of others. so if there is a problem with yourself, your community, your country—then focus on fixing the problems that YOU are associated with. Instead of acting like you’re not associated with anything bad, or as if all the bad things have been caused by others, and not you.

    and quit pretending people are going around forcing you to feel guilty….any guilt you feel is real, and is not being forced upon you. admit your faults and sincerely try to mend your ways—-it will make you feel better.

    people see problems that cause pain and suffering (or will in the future), they want to fix these problems to avoid pain and suffering for themselves and others. some humans do it for the human race, not for Americans or Chinese or Mexicans. others do it for their fellow countryman–and that’s OK too, and others for their wife, or child, or grandchildren–OR EVEN JUST FOR THEMSELVES (Probably the best reason)—–ALL of these are legitimate reasons.

    some people believe that you can solve these problems through government programs and beauracracies. some people just want someone to tell them they are going to fix the problem(without ever really knowing whether that person actually can fix it).

    others beleive (as I do) that non-forced individual charity and free market enterprise is the best and most efficent way for problems to be solved. if there is a demand, there will be a market for that demand.

    And this is why I am so pissed OFF…IF THERE IS A MARKET FOR REDUCING CARBON EMISSIONS IN OUR FREE-MARKET SOCIETY WHY ARE BOOKWORM AND THE AMERICAN STINKER AND Y AND OTHERS COMPLAINING THAT PEOPLE MAY MAKE MONEY OFF THIS?*****YOU CAN DAMN WELL BET THAT WHEN THERE IS A MARKET FOR SOMETHING****THERE IS MONEY TO BE MADE.

    IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE GORE AND OTHERS HAVE CREATED THIS MARKET IN ORDER TO MAKE BOAT LOADS OF MONEY AND GAIN POWER THEN YOU ARE DILLUSIONAL. AND (IF YOU BELIEVE THAT IS TRUE) YOU MUST ALSO ADMIT THAT GORE IS A GENIUS BEYOND COMPREHENSION.

    WHY IS IT SO SURPRISING THAT THERE IS A GROWING MARKET FOR MAKING THINGS MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT AND CLEANER?

    NOTHING, EXCEPT IT THREATENS (AMONG OTHERS) THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE AND ITS MANY COMPLIMENTARY PRODUCTS THAT CURRENTLY MAKES UP THE MOST PROFITABLE INDUSTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

    AND IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE INDUSTRY IS ONE OF THE DIRTIEST AND PROBLEMATIC INDUSTRIES IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND (JUST LOOK AT OIL SPILLS AND WARS IN THE MIDDLE-EAST OVER OIL).

    IT’S NOT A SURPRISE THAT THERE IS A MARKET FOR REDUCING POLLUTION AND CARBON EMISSIONS. GORE DIDN’T CREATE IT, AND HE IS NOT TRYING TO FORCE DEMAND–THE DEMAND IS THERE ALREADY. IT MATTERS NOT WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT GIVES THIS MARKET THE SAME PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT THAT IS GIVEN TO THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.. THE DEMAND IS THERE AND YOU WILL NOT SEE AN END TO INDUSTRIES ASSOCIATED WITH THE REDUCTION OF POLLUTION AND REDUCTION OF CARBON EMISSIONS.

    I am not calling for an end to all oil companies, that would be screwing with free enterprise and wrong. I am just saying that the demand is there, the market is there, and the oil companies better be ready for some MAJOR competition and know that they will be out of business soon if they don’t start developing more and more and more environmentally friendly energy alternatives.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    and just because there are larger countries that will have more of an impact on future pollution…what the hell does that have to do with us?—-

    Interesting question, what the hell does it have to do with your global warming clique?

    Oh, wait, since GW is just a domestic scheme for domestic political consumption, I suppose China doesn’t have anything to do with it.

    have you ever heard of doing something because it is right?

    Would that mean so long as your domestic policy agendas are achieved, this makes it right independent of what other nations like China are doing? So what is right is based upon how well you do, as opposed to what everyone else is doing… okay

    have you ever heard of looking at YOURSELF, YOUR COMMUNITY, YOUR STATE, YOUR COUNTRY before sitting in judgment of others.

    Did I hear you right, I have to look at my navel before knowing what is right from wrong? Interesting ethical philosophy you have there.

    Is this somehow supposed to convince me that because you are inwards looking, B, that you are better able to judge the morality of the world than I? If so, you need a better scheme than that.

    and quit pretending people are going around forcing you to feel guilty….any guilt you feel is real, and is not being forced upon you. admit your faults and sincerely try to mend your ways—-it will make you feel better.

    You need a few more lessons on psychological warfare, before you can get the basics of psychology down.

    The psychological concurrence for Shrink’s circle is that people are displacing their fears from a near, real, and harsh threat like the Islamic JIhad, into a long term, ephemeral, and indefinite threat in the future called global warming. If you can’t handle something really dangerous, just concentrate all your energies on something that you can handle. Gore can’t manipulate the Islamic Jihad’s behavior or even his 2000 election, but he can sure manipulate the stock market, investments, and political circles. So that is what he does, he handles the problems that he knows he can solve, regardless of whether they are actual problems or not.

    http://shrinkwrapped.blogs.com/blog/2007/02/abortion_on_dem_3.html

    I suggest people read that post of Shrink’s for a little something on how people displace their fears and worries from things they can’t deal with, with things of lesser scale and threatening demeanor. It is natural for humans to do so, many people do it, on a minor and major scale. Everytime someone takes a vacation, it is to indulge in something they can easily do and do not feel threatened from, as opposed to something they need to do and are feel threatened by. This kind of action produces good feelings. And it is a necessity to the psychological health of an individual, given stresses. But… well, let us just say that people should take it in moderation.

    And this is why I am so pissed OFF

    You’re acting pissed off but you’re saying I’m the one feeling guilty? Nice… but not okay.

    AND (IF YOU BELIEVE THAT IS TRUE) YOU MUST ALSO ADMIT THAT GORE IS A GENIUS BEYOND COMPREHENSION.

    I have to admit that someone is a genius because he is a corrupt? Does that mean you have to admit the genius of black soot, the military industrial complex leaders, and Bush? Or are you just blowing smoke up people’s arse for reasons of boasting?

    I tuned out the caps.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    My reply will be here soon.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    Thanks book.

  • BigAL

    Y.

    The fact that China is a bigger polluter than us has nothing to do with whether or not we should do something about our enormous contributions to polluting our country and the rest of the world. 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

    What is right and wrong is independent of what anyone else is doing. If China continues to pollute, it has nothing to do with whether we should keep polluting unnecessarily.
    If China jumped off a bridge, would we follow?

    Fear of Islam? I’m sorry you’re afraid Y. I must quote Yoda: “Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering”

    We’re all going to die someday Y. And so will our children.

    Does that mean we should not do something about radical Islamic terrorists? Of course not. I happen to disagree with the way the Whitehouse is fighting this war on terror, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think it is a war that needs to be fought or at least a very big problem that needs to be understood and action taken(long-term if necessary)–i would just do it differently.

    Fear of Global Warming and harmful pollutants? Don’t be afraid. We can do something about it just like we can do something about terrorism.

    Yes Y, I feel guilt too as does every human being. And when I do, I’ve found the best course of action is to “admit my faults and sincerely try to mend my ways”.

    Finally Y, I have already admitted long ago that the Bush Administration is full of political geniuses who have achieved many of their goals through corruption. Geniuses aren’t exempt from being corrupt or evil—i mean, look no further than the way Osama has made a mockery of the most powerful military in the world over the last 5.5 years. Osama is certainly genius and corrupt and evil all at the same time.

    I said: “IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE GORE AND OTHERS HAVE CREATED THIS MARKET IN ORDER TO MAKE BOAT LOADS OF MONEY AND GAIN POWER THEN YOU ARE DILLUSIONAL. AND (IF YOU BELIEVE THAT IS TRUE) YOU MUST ALSO ADMIT THAT GORE IS A GENIUS BEYOND COMPREHENSION.”

    So IF Gore had done all of this to make money (or gain power) from carbon-emissions reduction products (and the sale of his DVD, etc), I was pointing out that he needs to get a lot more credit for his intelligence by his accusers.

    However, I really do believe that Gore is just a good guy who cares about the environment and future generations. And plus, he is a book reader, I’m always more comfortable with believing leaders (especially Presidents) who like to read and can speak clearly. Plus, I just get the feeling everything Bush says is “a load of crap”.

    So go ahead and tune me out Y….

    Go watch Norris and Colmes

    :)

  • BigAL

    political geniues in the Whitehouse? yes.

    Military geniuses, HAHAHAHAHA :).

    Just wanted to calrify

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    So go ahead and tune me out Y….

    Go watch Norris and Colmes

    Already did that.

    Yes Y, I feel guilt too as does every human being. And when I do, I’ve found the best course of action is to “admit my faults and sincerely try to mend my ways”.

    But it isn’t your personal problems you are mending or even Gore’s personal problems, it is outside of person. Instead, it is about political policies and the nation. As if you can make 300 million people do what you want them to do because of your personal emotions.

    What is right and wrong is independent of what anyone else is doing. If China continues to pollute, it has nothing to do with whether we should keep polluting unnecessarily.
    If China jumped off a bridge, would we follow?

    The problem is rather simple to portray. It isn’t the question of following. It is the question of, since we’re not jumping off the bridge and China is, why you aren’t trying to convince China of not jumping?

    Don’t you want to fix the worst environmental problems? And those aren’t in the US.

    I was pointing out that he needs to get a lot more credit for his intelligence by his accusers.

    Well that’s a nice attempt at a red herring. Since the question is of his corruption, not his intelligence. After all, people in self-denial don’t need to be smart or dumb to be that way.

    Of course, the logic of saying that if someone is corrupt and that means they are intelligent, is an interesting separate debate. Because technically, if they were that intelligent, they could make much more money legitimately, rather than stealing from the creativity of others. Then again, the really cunning and intelligent, don’t get caught, so we don’t know who they are.

    Gore got caught pretty easily. What does that say for his planning?

    However, I really do believe that Gore is just a good guy who cares about the environment and future generations.

    Ya well, I did say that about denial, didn’t I?

  • BigAL

    political geniuses in the Whitehouse? yes.

    Military geniuses?, HAHAHAHAHA :)

    Just wanted to clarify

  • http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/ Bookworm

    Fascinating discussion Y and BigAl, and one in which I don’t have time to get involved. One thing, though, BigAl. As always, I’m not saying there aren’t good reasons for the West to clean up its act, the two primary reasons being (1) that it would be superb to choke off the money supply to countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela and (2) that a cleaner environment is a more pleasant one in which to live.

    Nevertheless, my original point remains the same: while we’re all getting hysterical here, the East is starting to make a mess that will make our mess look innocuous. This means that the smartest thing to do, is not to turn down our thermostats (although that’s smart too), but to continue the search for cheap, easy alternative energy sources that will bypass dictators and that will be cheap enough for emerging economies to use.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    Book, here’s something of a kind of cheap easy alternative energy source for you.

    http://www.eskom.co.za/nuclear_energy/pebble_bed/pebble_bed.html

    Are the environmentalists for it? No. Does that mean the environmentalists wish to protect the environment by refusing to solve the problem? No, to that as well. So what are the environmentalists meta-goal? Hrm, maybe we can figure that out if we talk to Gore and B.

    This is indicative of something. People yell very loudly about “problems”. But the solutions to IEDs (something BigA yelled about) such as the Grizzly Man’s carapace armor, is totally ignored as if it doesn’t matter. This is indicative of something, and it isn’t positive.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    At least B is big on something. He at least recycles his words.

  • BigAL

    “Nevertheless, my original point remains the same: while we’re all getting hysterical here, the East is starting to make a mess that will make our mess look innocuous. This means that the smartest thing to do, is not to turn down our thermostats (although that’s smart too), but to continue the search for cheap, easy alternative energy sources that will bypass dictators and that will be cheap enough for emerging economies to use.”

    Hey BW.

    I agree with your premise above….I am just obviously frustrated with the oil and gas industries and politicians who make excuses for why we don’t already have alternative cleaner energy sources and methods for keeping the environment cleaner while keeping us away from middle-east dependency which often inadvertently funds terrorism. whokilledtheelectriccar?

    has anyone actually watched this documentary?

    what about “Iraq for Sale:The War Profiteers”?

    good stuff