• http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    I saw this somewhere else… but I can’t remember.

    I thought the Arnold bit was funny.

    I think the best story about a “world without America” is in fact SM Stirling’s Draka series. It depicts an African superpower resulting from a mix of Nietzche and Southern plantation owner philosophy. Spartan stuff as well. Creating a hyperpower that dominated the world in a great war of devastation. Very interesting. America wasn’t in that story, sure it existed, but it wasn’t the America that we knew. It was a weaker, paler version of America.

  • http://infidelphialive.blogspot.com Jauhara al kafirah

    Hand in hand with this video should be this entry from Gerard Vanderleun;

  • http://infidelphialive.blogspot.com Jauhara al kafirah

    Well, after a good reviewing this video, I have a teensy weensy nit to pick, if’n you don’t mind too terribly much.s

    First, we the viewers are expected to assume that Britain remains free enough to even elect a Margaret Thatcher. Or that an Israel even came into being. Think about this, without an America, there would have been no revolutionary war, but France would have had theirs, bloody as ever, and France would still have been the Empire it so desperately wanted. Europe would be in a perpetual state of war. The television would never have come into being, neither would have the car, the railroad, the radio. Only in America did the tv exist in the mind BEFORE it was invented, as did every single invention from its inception. So the video is silly on its face, because there would have to come into existence an America, sooner or later, because it is in the deepest desires of mankind to be free, and he would find a way. Over all, I have to give this video a poor rating. Sorry BW, but I stand by Vanderleun’s article. It is shear beauty to read it.

  • Danny Lemieux

    I am sure that significant parts of the world will find out what a world without American is like, soon enough.

  • http://infidelphialive.blogspot.com Jauhara al kafirah

    I hope not, Danny.

  • http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/ Bookworm

    I agree with you Jauhara, about the underlying assumption that Britain would have remained free without America. The fact is that, as Winston Churchill well knew — hence his desperate pleas to Roosevelt to join the war — England could not have beaten Nazi Germany. The more likely alternative world without America would have been of the type envision in Robert Harris’ Fatherland, which saw a world completely overrun by or complicit with Nazi ideology. Still, I think the videos makers recognized that they would have had to do a much longer video than a one minute commentary were they really to deeply analyze a world without America. As it is, I still think they made a good point, albeit a shallow one.

  • http://infidelphialive.blogspot.com Jauhara al kafirah

    I had completely forgotten about the fact that large segments of British society actually sympathized with the Nazis…prominently among them was King George. It would go a long way to explain the vicious Jew hatred that permeates British society today, even as Orwell saw it in his time.

    I think it would be fun to delve deeply into what a world might really be like if America HAD never come into being…what if we’d gone the way of Canada and never exerted ourselves?

    If you think about it, we can analyze what the world would be like by analyzing Canada.

    As much as I can appreciate Canada, face it…America took all the risks in the world on a nearly molecular level.

    Canada hasn’t, in spite of its great size given the world any great big anything…sadly to say.

    Every innovation from a representational democracy, onward. We are a nation of big, optimistic ideals and ideas. Europe can only grumble and complain and invent new bureaucracies to compensate for the lack of ideals or ideas.

  • Al

    I guess I’m in an irrascelbe frame of mind, but some of the inventions mentioned in the video and here would have come from other sources, though maybe latter. As far as world events goes, without the US, Napoleon probably would have had his Waterloo sooner because he would not have had the fifteen million we gave him for the Louisiana Purchase. To say nothing of the men and equipment England would have saved by not fighting the American Revolution. And if there had been no United States of America, where would all those Europeans who couldn’t live in the societies they had and emigrated. Probably more would have to Argentina and Brazil. We might have had a United States of South American. But that is rather optimistic, considering the governments that did evolve down there.

    It is nice to have someone say that America is a force for good in the world, especially when an absurdly large fraction of our own citizenry parrot the delusion that we are otherwise. J al K, thanks much for the link to American Digest. That was good to read.

    Alternative history is a fun intellectual exercise. There’s a group of stories based on alternative historical outcomes. Including one postulating what would have happened if the South had won the Civil War. I couldn’t put it down.

  • Danny Lemieux

    Whoa, everyone – there’s an underlying assumption that, without the United States, all these other countries (e.g. Canada, Brazil) would have been independent. It was the U.S. revolution that sparked the wars of independence in the rest of the Americas. As in a game of Risk, the world may well have been dominated by empires with no inalienable rights to individual freedom, no “checks and balances”, etc. The U.S. was a unique occurrance because its circumstances were so unique – had our Founding Fathers failed, their ideas would probably have been viewed as wildly and impractically utopian.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    Eric Flint’s 1632 was interesting and fun to read.

    The question really becomes, what replaces America. The continent just wouldn’t disappear like in the map. We know that things will be different, but how different is the key.

    One or two branches at a specific time, we can do. But the entire history? That’s like something a quantum computer should be designed to solve.

  • http://infidelphialive.blogspot.com Jauhara al kafirah

    Good observation, Y, I once had a very realistic dream that I was living in a post-American era. In it, the end of America came not by apocalyptic doom but from forgetfulness, neglect and stultification of the people. Decay takes much longer, but its end is destruction, nonetheless.
    I had been writing it into a plausible story, but it, like much of my other writing, has fallen by the wayside and is sporadic at best.
    I think the best alternative history was in the old Twilight Zone story lines.

  • Danny Lemieux

    Good point, Jauhara – Athenian democracy lasted about 250 years before it fell apart from neglect and decay. Will the same happen to our American democracy? If so, we should perhaps ask ourselves if the “American Experiment” is reaching the end of its natural lifespan. Reading the Lefty weblogs like Puffington Host or MoveOn.org would lead one to think so.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    Technology changes the developmental plan as well as the entropic decay process.

    One of the problems of the ancients was that they couldn’t fight entropy, they did not have the tools and therefore they did not have the power. They could not slow down the decay of their bodies, their civilizations, or their people. But we can. Civilizations almost always destroy themselves, by embracing entropy, which opens the gate for the barbarians and other outside threats to come in and trash the infrastructure.

    Even if a civilization does not destroy itself, it becomes so weak, that it can no longer fight off entropy, the natural decay of all things.

    America has benefited from the improvements of the Athenians, Spartans, Romans, and Britons throughout the millenias. The block is therefore much stronger than the Athenians had for themselves.

    All things decay, and yet humans fight against the inevitable, because we wish to live. Entropy, like death, is inevitable. But this does not mean there is nothing to live for. Perhaps this is a humanocentric conceit, but it is what we know and breath. If the Big Bang taught us anything, it was that if you are going to die eventually, you might as well start with a bang, ride the shockwave, and face your end with the knowledge that you once were. Were what? That you once were an entity that existed, that you had identity and free will.

    All good things must end, all civilizations must end, this is something understood intuitively by human beings. And yet we have people who seek meaninglessness, promote it, and accelerate the process of decay willingly and eagerly. Pitted against folks who resist entropy’s encroachment with every fiber of their being. Which is the true courage and virtue… I suppose that will be decided in the struggle.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar

    Do people remember what the Left said about American civilization? Internationally, I keep hearing from foreigners that “American power won’t last forever” (America isn’t perfect)…. as if this should actually matter to me or them. I am not a despot of the Left, fearing maximum entropy to the extent that I wish to either keep everything frozen in stasis (with no progress) or to accelerate the end because of an intolerance towards suffering and struggle. I mean, this is what people fear when they wish to see America be gone. The glory and the success of America stands as testament to their failures… failures of will, failures of thought, and failures of law. They feel apprehensive about us, both the Islamic Jihad and Europe. I asked myself years ago why if Europe was envious and jealous of the US, why didn’t Europe just seek to defeat the US via competititon, by doing what the US does, better, via greater defense spending and freedoms? Why does Europe seek to constrain the US, instead of attempting to become our equals or even superiors? And the answer is… because they fear entropy’s inevitability. They are unwilling to resist entropy, because they have no will, no desire, nothing they would fight for, die for, or live for. They don’t believe in their institutions enough to defend them. And even if they did, their self-chosen socialist systems will not allow them to do so… because that would be freedom, the fullfillment of human potential, and Europe chose a long time ago to stifle human innovation and liberty. Once you go on the road of ultimate decay… it is not like you can turn back time’s arrow. Once on the Road to Serfdom, it takes something monumental to change your path, and even then you will never actually reverse the process.

    Evil people become evil because they cannot resist evil’s lure, after all. Evil is easy people, being good is hard. There is a beauty to true evil, you know. The ultimate temptation, the ultimate perfection, a taste of paradise… Don’t be deceived though, it is no paradise, regardless of what the Left and the Islamic Jihad claims.

    Entropy’s a bad habit, it is easier to stop if you never started.

    I bring this up because of something I’ve written about before. Which was the Hurricane of Disbelief. I came to the conclusion that the Left just didn’t believe in the same things that I do. That may be obvious, but the ramifications are quite stunning. Because if look at your actions compared to their rhetoric, they not only don’t believe in what I believe, they don’t believe in anything. Anything that concerns itself with preservation and positive progress that is. They always seem to be against it, using political games against people like Bush as a shield, as an excuse, as the best thing they could do. Power is one thing they are after, but why? So that they could use the power to fight against entropy? That makes no sense, given that they perpetuate poverty, crime, and violence by everything they do, which further accelerates entropy.

    The visual analogy I use is the Hurricane of Disbelief. It seeks to uproot your roots, and once that is achieved, the winds will throw you about.

    The roots the Athenians had were weak, brittle, and short. American civilization has progressed far from the BC days. Our roots are strong, thick, long, reaching into and across the world like the great world tree Yggdrasil. And yet the hurricane still blows, with its continuous attempts to uproot us and destroy the foundation of human progress.

    And in a sense, this is why total war is viewed by American Jacksonians the way we do. War is a waste of resources, lives, material, and potential. It is entropy personified, viewed in the faces of your enemies and your loved ones who fall in war’s path. War is a test, just part of the continuous test that entropy pushes on us, day in day out until we die and entropy smothers us in its embrace. Or maybe not even then, in a way, if you believe in reincarnation and heaven. So if war is a fight against entropy… you must then marshall all the resources and determination, in order to preserve your side. There is no mercy to entropy’s decay. Once you begin to fall and corrode, there is no going back… so you must prevent it. You must prevent it by winning the war now, so that more lives are not lost as time goes on.

    Victory against entropy is a stalling action, but it is nontheless important for that fact. You cannot stall entropy’s endless march through time and space, if you are weak of heart. If you are unwilling to match the determination of ultimate decay. Entropy will live and do its work until it unmakes itself…. what are you going to offer up to the altar of sacrifice compared to that?

    I have made this claim before, that the Left wishes perpetual war. And this is why. So long as we are all at war, and nobody wins and nobody loses… resources will be wasted, entropy will be accelerated, and human potential will be lost for countless generations. Losing hundreds of thousands or millions of people… just consider the potential billions and trillions of potential lives that single war snuffed out. Whole generations were erased in WWI and WWII. Countless geniuses, prodigies, humanitarians, heroes, and resistance fighters were unmade.

    Why does the United States fight? There are a lot of answers. But I suppose at its heart, the people of the United States will not go quietly into the night. When the forces of evil come for Americans, evil will meet a power that matches it. After all, the universe seems to be full of dualities. For darkness, there is light. For energy, there is mass. For position, there is also velocity. And for the process of entropy… what is its opposite, its equal? Call it “good”, call it “order” or progress… but in the end, it is a power that is the equal to entropy. The underdog even.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/ ymarsakar


    The Jamaican parliament is discussing whether or not a formal claim for reparations should be made to the British government. Any final decision is a long way off and a vote for reparations is likely to be greeted with a firm rejection from No 10.

    Jamaican Prime Minister Portia Simpson Miller, in a rare interview, told me that in this bicentenary year, there is no statute of limitations on genocide and that Jamaicans will never forget the cruelty done to their ancestors.

    “They were packed into ships like sardines in a sardine can. We will never forget what was done to our foreparents. It was a crime against humanity.”

    Perhaps that’s the price Britain must pay, that it will never be allowed to forget what it did. It is a heavy price, the burden of history. Fitting perhaps for a monumental crime.

    I personally think some people need to stop playing Nigerian scams and digging up the past to cover for their own crimes.

    Economy – overview:
    Definition Field Listing
    The Jamaican economy is heavily dependent on services, which now account for more than 60% of GDP. The country continues to derive most of its foreign exchange from tourism, remittances, and bauxite/alumina. Jamaica’s economy, already saddled with a record of sluggish growth, was hit hard by Hurricane Ivan in late 2004, but has made a gradual recovery. But the economy faces serious long-term problems: high but declining interest rates, increased foreign competition, exchange rate instability, a sizable merchandise trade deficit, large-scale unemployment and underemployment, and a high debt burden – the result of government bailouts to ailing sectors of the economy, most notably the financial sector in the mid-to-late 1990s. Following a strategy begun in 2004, Jamaica has reduced its public debt to 133.3% of GDP. Inflation also had declined to 5.8% at the end of 2006. High unemployment exacerbates the serious crime problem, including gang violence fueled by the drug trade. The government faces the difficult prospect of having to achieve fiscal discipline in order to maintain debt payments while simultaneously attacking a serious and growing crime problem that is hampering economic growth.
    -CIA World F

    The crimes of the Jaimaican government against their own people cannot be covered up by political ploys. Jaimaica’s present, does not trump Britain’s past.

    And I post this because it is only more confirmation. If you don’t believe in any greater principles except those espoused in the BBC report, then what are you going to do? How are you going to stabilize and preserve Britain or Jaimaica? You can’t, period.

    People find America to be an annoyance because the US is the reminder to everyone that fighting evil pays well. Humans, including murderers, like to justify their actions as the good. So if they are failing and the US/Britain are more successful, obviously this then means the US is keeping them down via imperialism. Obviously Israel’s success is because they exploited the Palestinians and Arabs. Obviously…

    The Red Army Faction sought to combat what it saw as capitalist oppression of workers and US imperialism.

    US Imperialism has been around a long time it seems. Makes sense, since it was after all something the Soviets cooked up to disrupt and subvert their enemy.

    The point is, the world is like a bucket of crabs. If you don’t watch out, your fellows will put you down into the pit, forever. Rising above mediocrity, above uniformity and greyness… is frowned upon.

  • http://infidelphialive.blogspot.com Jauhara al kafirah

    Wow, that was a whole lotta brilliance to digest all at once, Y. But you said something in your Hurricane of Disbelief that made me really think. NOW I understand why the left is so attached to Islamist fascism. Islam, in the form of invading armies of Arabs, have historically been a wretched Sand Storm of Disbelief. Wherever they have invaded, they have erased the culture and history of a people, subjugating them to the NEW history, the NEW culture, that of the Arab, and the erasure of their humanity. Hence you have the destruction of the Persians and the rise of the Iranians. Try an experiment. Ask an Iranian ex-pat if he speaks Persian or Farsi…the answer will stun you. Never assume they are one and the same thing.
    Kurds become displaced and Arabs move in, as if the Kurds had never been there.
    The Soviets sought to Russify all that they conquered, and now, Russia stands waist-deep in the demographic pit of disappearance from both the land and future history.
    The interesting thing about these hurricanes of disbelief is this: They destroy everything from within as from without. But there is always a remnant who will survive to rebuild.
    Europe was ravaged by wars and pestilences and how many times did she destroy herself over the millenia?
    I hope that America can reinvigorate and reanimate herself. If you do read the leftist blogs, the feeling you come away with is not only disbelief, but the inner ravaging of their souls, and utter despair. In a word – madness.

  • Danny Lemieux

    Yes, Jauhara, madness. Look only at the drooling AlGore and his acolytes or the rabid self-haters at MoveOn.org to see how thin the veneer of civilization has truly become.