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	<title>Comments on: What we stand for</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/</link>
	<description>She escaped from the belly of the liberal beast</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Webloggin - Blog Archive &#187; Traditional Liberalism As A Dead End</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/#comment-15352</link>
		<dc:creator>Webloggin - Blog Archive &#187; Traditional Liberalism As A Dead End</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=1912#comment-15352</guid>
		<description>[...] as I wrote here, even those close to the Democratic Party concede that it’s a party in search of ideas. Other [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as I wrote here, even those close to the Democratic Party concede that it’s a party in search of ideas. Other [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Traditional liberalism as a dead end &#171; Bookworm Room</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/#comment-15353</link>
		<dc:creator>Traditional liberalism as a dead end &#171; Bookworm Room</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=1912#comment-15353</guid>
		<description>[...] as I wrote here, even those close to the Democratic Party concede that it&#8217;s a party in search of ideas. Other [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as I wrote here, even those close to the Democratic Party concede that it&#8217;s a party in search of ideas. Other [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian H</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/#comment-15376</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=1912#comment-15376</guid>
		<description>Taking a political PR tack, it might be worth emphasizing that conservatives deny and resent the claim of liberals to have the skills and moral authority to shape and guide their lives.  Did you read the retrospective by the ex-BBC producer, who traced the rise of leftist dominance there?  He noted that the opposing viewpoints were top-down (conservative protection of the institutions and traditions of the society) vs. bottom-up (all the little hoi-polloi had to be protected against the dominance of institutions and the wealthy, at all costs and in all circumstances, up to and including dismantling of the state and economic structures that permit such distinctions in access to wealth.  [Note the "extremes approach their opposites" aspect to this vs. the current situation.]
He goes on to note that leftists are disassemblers of structure, and having won control have no clue about what to do with the machine they now direct; disruption and resistance are not good schools for building and using constructively.  OTOH, pure control by institution-loving conservatives leads to statis and blighting of upward mobility or societal reform.  So the competition and tension between the two is best left in the middle ground, with institutions evolving to fend off attack by cutting some slack for those without ready access to policy levers.

For another and fascinating take, check out YourMorals.org.  Heidl is researching tempermental moral inclinations, and finds -- surprise -- conservatives to be nuanced, liberals monomaniacal and simplistic.  Or SLT.  Do his survey, then read the analyses of results to date.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking a political PR tack, it might be worth emphasizing that conservatives deny and resent the claim of liberals to have the skills and moral authority to shape and guide their lives.  Did you read the retrospective by the ex-BBC producer, who traced the rise of leftist dominance there?  He noted that the opposing viewpoints were top-down (conservative protection of the institutions and traditions of the society) vs. bottom-up (all the little hoi-polloi had to be protected against the dominance of institutions and the wealthy, at all costs and in all circumstances, up to and including dismantling of the state and economic structures that permit such distinctions in access to wealth.  [Note the "extremes approach their opposites" aspect to this vs. the current situation.]<br />
He goes on to note that leftists are disassemblers of structure, and having won control have no clue about what to do with the machine they now direct; disruption and resistance are not good schools for building and using constructively.  OTOH, pure control by institution-loving conservatives leads to statis and blighting of upward mobility or societal reform.  So the competition and tension between the two is best left in the middle ground, with institutions evolving to fend off attack by cutting some slack for those without ready access to policy levers.</p>
<p>For another and fascinating take, check out YourMorals.org.  Heidl is researching tempermental moral inclinations, and finds &#8212; surprise &#8212; conservatives to be nuanced, liberals monomaniacal and simplistic.  Or SLT.  Do his survey, then read the analyses of results to date.</p>
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		<title>By: John S.</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/#comment-15354</link>
		<dc:creator>John S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 03:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=1912#comment-15354</guid>
		<description>Mike Devx,

Hear! Hear!

Marguerite,

If I may cordially disagree, I don't think children have a "right" to a mom and a dad.  Certainly, all children naturally have a male and female biological parent, and of course they should be allowed by right (and indeed encouraged) to live together as a family, but sometimes those parents die/leave/get divorced, leaving the child with only one parent.  How will the government then secure this "right" for the child?  Will it find a replacement for the missing parent?  If so, how will it accomplish this--by persuasion?  Bribery?  Force?  Of course, this thought exercise is leading down the path of plain silliness, but it's unfortunately a logical extension of a "right" to a mother and father.

I think rather that what is implied is that if a child has two moms or two dads, that this is somehow depriving the child of something he or she would have otherwise had.  Au contraire!  If the situation were different, it's likely the child would simply have a single parent.  And I think we can all agree that a single parent is less optimal than having two parents.  If the child in question is adopted, then why not praise gay couples who want to love and raise a child who would otherwise have no parents at all?  There are certainly more children to be adopted than there are people willing to adopt--there can be nothing gained by denying a child a loving, two-parent household simply because it is not viewed as "optimal".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike Devx,</p>
<p>Hear! Hear!</p>
<p>Marguerite,</p>
<p>If I may cordially disagree, I don&#8217;t think children have a &#8220;right&#8221; to a mom and a dad.  Certainly, all children naturally have a male and female biological parent, and of course they should be allowed by right (and indeed encouraged) to live together as a family, but sometimes those parents die/leave/get divorced, leaving the child with only one parent.  How will the government then secure this &#8220;right&#8221; for the child?  Will it find a replacement for the missing parent?  If so, how will it accomplish this&#8211;by persuasion?  Bribery?  Force?  Of course, this thought exercise is leading down the path of plain silliness, but it&#8217;s unfortunately a logical extension of a &#8220;right&#8221; to a mother and father.</p>
<p>I think rather that what is implied is that if a child has two moms or two dads, that this is somehow depriving the child of something he or she would have otherwise had.  Au contraire!  If the situation were different, it&#8217;s likely the child would simply have a single parent.  And I think we can all agree that a single parent is less optimal than having two parents.  If the child in question is adopted, then why not praise gay couples who want to love and raise a child who would otherwise have no parents at all?  There are certainly more children to be adopted than there are people willing to adopt&#8211;there can be nothing gained by denying a child a loving, two-parent household simply because it is not viewed as &#8220;optimal&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: The Anchoress &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Scanning a friday sphere</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/#comment-15355</link>
		<dc:creator>The Anchoress &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Scanning a friday sphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=1912#comment-15355</guid>
		<description>[...] usually wins and wonders where the GOP&#8217;s went. Bookworm suggests that getting a handle on what the right stands for, anymore could help.  James Taranto takes a look at the very different tone Columbia University takes when [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] usually wins and wonders where the GOP&#8217;s went. Bookworm suggests that getting a handle on what the right stands for, anymore could help.  James Taranto takes a look at the very different tone Columbia University takes when [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Moving Republicans forward in American hearts and minds &#171; Bookworm Room</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/#comment-15356</link>
		<dc:creator>Moving Republicans forward in American hearts and minds &#171; Bookworm Room</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=1912#comment-15356</guid>
		<description>[...] in American hearts and&#160;minds  Posted on October 12, 2007 by Bookworm   A week ago, I did a post that sought to find issues common to the greatest number of conservatives &#8212; and I got a lot of wonderful help from you guys in the comments section. I still hope to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in American hearts and&nbsp;minds  Posted on October 12, 2007 by Bookworm   A week ago, I did a post that sought to find issues common to the greatest number of conservatives &#8212; and I got a lot of wonderful help from you guys in the comments section. I still hope to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Glittering Eye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Eye on the Watcher&#8217;s Council</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/#comment-15357</link>
		<dc:creator>The Glittering Eye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Eye on the Watcher&#8217;s Council</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=1912#comment-15357</guid>
		<description>[...] Bookworm Room, “What We Stand For” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bookworm Room, “What We Stand For” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Barney Quick</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/#comment-15358</link>
		<dc:creator>Barney Quick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 15:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=1912#comment-15358</guid>
		<description>Danny Lemiux is spot-on with his entry about human nature, and Marguerite states well the situation re: marriage and family.
I sort of wonder if there's not some sort of  way to incorporate the point on taxes into an overarching statement about the free-market economy.  It still sets my teeth on edge that the first thing the Democratic congress did (and the only thing, good or bad, of any substance it's been able to accomplish so far) was hike the minimum wage.  All the Barney Frank-type obsession with corporate CEO pay falls under this heading as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danny Lemiux is spot-on with his entry about human nature, and Marguerite states well the situation re: marriage and family.<br />
I sort of wonder if there&#8217;s not some sort of  way to incorporate the point on taxes into an overarching statement about the free-market economy.  It still sets my teeth on edge that the first thing the Democratic congress did (and the only thing, good or bad, of any substance it&#8217;s been able to accomplish so far) was hike the minimum wage.  All the Barney Frank-type obsession with corporate CEO pay falls under this heading as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Devx</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/#comment-15359</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Devx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 23:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=1912#comment-15359</guid>
		<description>"It’s not just the Left, Marguerite, although they are the problem I identified. I’m also thinking about the gay people in all our lives (family and friends), and about gay conservatives who share our beliefs about American security, the 2nd Amendment, the War in Iraq, etc"

Every so often, but rarely, I bring up in these comments that I am gay.  It's a part of my life but not a significant part.

Everybody MUST be allowed to speak up and express every single opinion they have, on this subject, and on any subject.  I don't want anyone to hold back. Don't let anyone convince you to repress your own beliefs.  Make THEM oppress YOU; don't do their job for them.  Fight them every step of the way.  I hope conservatives will always stand for total free speech.  The Democrats have certainly abandoned the concept in favor of misguided enforcements of buzzwords such as sensitivity and tolerance.

I think the controversy over gay marriage actually affects three core conservative principles:
- Encouraging traditional values
- The definition of a family: meaning a father and mother who raise their children AND HAVE CONTROL OVER the direction of their children's lives
- Opposing judicial tyranny, putting control over making law back in the hands of legislatures

One of the largest problems in defining a core conservative platform is that libertarians and religious fundamentalists are often opposed.  Common ground exists among conservative-minded libertarians, and individualism-oriented fundamentalists.

For libertarians who favor absolute social freedom in every way - including public and legal use of drugs of any sort, public nudity, public sex - and for fundamentalists who favor rigid theocratic federal laws  controlling all aspects of our lives - including total environment-based federal regulation of our economic system so that we will more effectively serve as Stewards of the Lord's Earth - there's little common ground.

To the extent that libertarians and fundamentalists agree to allow States to serve as the laboraties of laws and regulation, I think we can find a LOT of common ground.  That would include returning abortion law to the States; not in creating a federal law banning all abortions.  It includes finding a way to have State to pass laws concerning homosexual union, not in using the power of the national government to either force homosexual marriage upon - or to deny it to - all citizens of all States.

As you might guess, I'm a libertarian States-law guy, living in an age when the national government has taken over control of regulating every aspect of our American lives.  Most conservatives these days seem to actually favor big-government spending, so long as it's "our" kind of big- government spending; they favor judicial tyranny whenever they like the kind of judicial fiat imposed; they often favor abrogation of individual rights in the pursuit not of happiness but of daily safety and security.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s not just the Left, Marguerite, although they are the problem I identified. I’m also thinking about the gay people in all our lives (family and friends), and about gay conservatives who share our beliefs about American security, the 2nd Amendment, the War in Iraq, etc&#8221;</p>
<p>Every so often, but rarely, I bring up in these comments that I am gay.  It&#8217;s a part of my life but not a significant part.</p>
<p>Everybody MUST be allowed to speak up and express every single opinion they have, on this subject, and on any subject.  I don&#8217;t want anyone to hold back. Don&#8217;t let anyone convince you to repress your own beliefs.  Make THEM oppress YOU; don&#8217;t do their job for them.  Fight them every step of the way.  I hope conservatives will always stand for total free speech.  The Democrats have certainly abandoned the concept in favor of misguided enforcements of buzzwords such as sensitivity and tolerance.</p>
<p>I think the controversy over gay marriage actually affects three core conservative principles:<br />
- Encouraging traditional values<br />
- The definition of a family: meaning a father and mother who raise their children AND HAVE CONTROL OVER the direction of their children&#8217;s lives<br />
- Opposing judicial tyranny, putting control over making law back in the hands of legislatures</p>
<p>One of the largest problems in defining a core conservative platform is that libertarians and religious fundamentalists are often opposed.  Common ground exists among conservative-minded libertarians, and individualism-oriented fundamentalists.</p>
<p>For libertarians who favor absolute social freedom in every way - including public and legal use of drugs of any sort, public nudity, public sex - and for fundamentalists who favor rigid theocratic federal laws  controlling all aspects of our lives - including total environment-based federal regulation of our economic system so that we will more effectively serve as Stewards of the Lord&#8217;s Earth - there&#8217;s little common ground.</p>
<p>To the extent that libertarians and fundamentalists agree to allow States to serve as the laboraties of laws and regulation, I think we can find a LOT of common ground.  That would include returning abortion law to the States; not in creating a federal law banning all abortions.  It includes finding a way to have State to pass laws concerning homosexual union, not in using the power of the national government to either force homosexual marriage upon - or to deny it to - all citizens of all States.</p>
<p>As you might guess, I&#8217;m a libertarian States-law guy, living in an age when the national government has taken over control of regulating every aspect of our American lives.  Most conservatives these days seem to actually favor big-government spending, so long as it&#8217;s &#8220;our&#8221; kind of big- government spending; they favor judicial tyranny whenever they like the kind of judicial fiat imposed; they often favor abrogation of individual rights in the pursuit not of happiness but of daily safety and security.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Lemieux</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/10/04/what-we-stand-for/#comment-15360</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Lemieux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=1912#comment-15360</guid>
		<description>W/ regard to sexuality and "other minorities", here's another one:

Conservatives believe that sexual preferences, race and ethnicity are private matters that  do not define who we are as individuals and how we stand as equals under the law. Conservatives certainly don't believe that people should wear their sexual habits on their sleeve.

Leftist Democrats believe that sexuality, race and ethnicity define "victim" constituencies and voting blocs that should be granted special dispensations to be granted by Leftist Democrats under the Law...UNLESS such defined minorities stray from the Liberal Democrat plantation, whereupon their sexuality, race and/or ethnicity should be waged as a cudgel to destroy them for their apostasy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>W/ regard to sexuality and &#8220;other minorities&#8221;, here&#8217;s another one:</p>
<p>Conservatives believe that sexual preferences, race and ethnicity are private matters that  do not define who we are as individuals and how we stand as equals under the law. Conservatives certainly don&#8217;t believe that people should wear their sexual habits on their sleeve.</p>
<p>Leftist Democrats believe that sexuality, race and ethnicity define &#8220;victim&#8221; constituencies and voting blocs that should be granted special dispensations to be granted by Leftist Democrats under the Law&#8230;UNLESS such defined minorities stray from the Liberal Democrat plantation, whereupon their sexuality, race and/or ethnicity should be waged as a cudgel to destroy them for their apostasy.</p>
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