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	<title>Comments on: Another reason to take scientific consensus with a grain of salt</title>
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	<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/11/07/another-reason-to-take-scientific-consensus-with-a-grain-of-salt/</link>
	<description>She escaped from the belly of the liberal beast</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 06:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: More unintended managed health care consequences &#171; Bookworm Room</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/11/07/another-reason-to-take-scientific-consensus-with-a-grain-of-salt/#comment-16493</link>
		<dc:creator>More unintended managed health care consequences &#171; Bookworm Room</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2078#comment-16493</guid>
		<description>[...] You can read the rest of the story here.  It&#8217;s obvious that New Zealand&#8217;s medical bureaucracy has not yet caught up with recent scientific findings showing that excess weight does not automatically correlate with ill health. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You can read the rest of the story here.  It&#8217;s obvious that New Zealand&#8217;s medical bureaucracy has not yet caught up with recent scientific findings showing that excess weight does not automatically correlate with ill health. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Devx</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/11/07/another-reason-to-take-scientific-consensus-with-a-grain-of-salt/#comment-16488</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Devx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 20:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2078#comment-16488</guid>
		<description>A little bit of fat and being a little overweight has benefits, I'm sure.

But in this country, we are NOT talking about a little bit of fat and being a little overweight.  Carrying around an excessive amount of fat cannot be a good thing.   (I suspect we will find that yo-yo rapid weight loss and gain such as losing thirty pounds over six months and regaining it all in three months, repeated cyclically,  is far, far, FAR worse than merely being overweight, even by a 100 pounds, however.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little bit of fat and being a little overweight has benefits, I&#8217;m sure.</p>
<p>But in this country, we are NOT talking about a little bit of fat and being a little overweight.  Carrying around an excessive amount of fat cannot be a good thing.   (I suspect we will find that yo-yo rapid weight loss and gain such as losing thirty pounds over six months and regaining it all in three months, repeated cyclically,  is far, far, FAR worse than merely being overweight, even by a 100 pounds, however.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jose</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/11/07/another-reason-to-take-scientific-consensus-with-a-grain-of-salt/#comment-16492</link>
		<dc:creator>Jose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 08:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2078#comment-16492</guid>
		<description>Years ago I came across an interesting theory for determining the risk of heart disease in a book by pathologist Dr Michael Baden.  He stated that coronary arteries vary greatly in size between individuals.  Those with small arteries will have blockages over time despite a healthy lifestyle, while those with large arteries can have the same or much larger amount of blockage with little negative effect.  He stated that heredity was the most likely determinant of blood vessel diameter, and individuals could theoretically determine their risk of heart disease based, at least partly, on this measurement.  I've never heard anything more about this theory, but it seemed plausible.

I believe the "one size fits all" theories on measuring health risks, like BMI, are meaningless.  The military used a similar method for years.  At the time I was working out daily, training in martial arts, and in the best condition of my life.  But I could never beat my "pack a day" co-workers who never went to the gym.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Years ago I came across an interesting theory for determining the risk of heart disease in a book by pathologist Dr Michael Baden.  He stated that coronary arteries vary greatly in size between individuals.  Those with small arteries will have blockages over time despite a healthy lifestyle, while those with large arteries can have the same or much larger amount of blockage with little negative effect.  He stated that heredity was the most likely determinant of blood vessel diameter, and individuals could theoretically determine their risk of heart disease based, at least partly, on this measurement.  I&#8217;ve never heard anything more about this theory, but it seemed plausible.</p>
<p>I believe the &#8220;one size fits all&#8221; theories on measuring health risks, like BMI, are meaningless.  The military used a similar method for years.  At the time I was working out daily, training in martial arts, and in the best condition of my life.  But I could never beat my &#8220;pack a day&#8221; co-workers who never went to the gym.</p>
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		<title>By: ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/11/07/another-reason-to-take-scientific-consensus-with-a-grain-of-salt/#comment-16489</link>
		<dc:creator>ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 22:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2078#comment-16489</guid>
		<description>&lt;B&gt;My ongoing concern about the climate change hysteria is that the scientific community has been co-opted by the biased community, and has abandoned the basic dictates of science.&lt;/b&gt;

Scientists always have pet theories. And they always believe that they are right. That human tendency promotes the creation of false evidence amongst scientists. That is why we have scientific hoaxes.

People forget that Galileo was totally incorrect in his beliefs, given the fact that his mathematics didn't back up his claims. Nor did Galileo have any other evidence. Galileo didn't claim the Copernican Heresy, either. But that's ancient history.

&lt;B&gt;not even my all ice cream diet&lt;/b&gt;

If you were lifting weights, Book, then you should have been on a mostly protein diet. Milk would have been far better. The high adaptation metabolism of people that Neo has talked about, including you and me, can only gain weight via weightlifting and high protein intake. Course, you have to be maxing your weight lifting numbers. Endurance training doesn't work.

&lt;B&gt; But others dismissed the findings as fundamentally flawed, saying an overwhelming body of evidence has documented the risks of being either overweight or obese.&lt;/b&gt;

It is not really clear whether such health problems occur because you have more weight or because of your behavior which caused you to have such weight. If you don't exercise, and thus gain weight, then obviously it is a question of whether you get sick because of a lack of exercise or an abundance of fat. Could be both. Could be the first. Could be the latter. Who knows. It is very very hard to conduct experiments based upon these factors since there are so many of them, with so many combinations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>My ongoing concern about the climate change hysteria is that the scientific community has been co-opted by the biased community, and has abandoned the basic dictates of science.</b></p>
<p>Scientists always have pet theories. And they always believe that they are right. That human tendency promotes the creation of false evidence amongst scientists. That is why we have scientific hoaxes.</p>
<p>People forget that Galileo was totally incorrect in his beliefs, given the fact that his mathematics didn&#8217;t back up his claims. Nor did Galileo have any other evidence. Galileo didn&#8217;t claim the Copernican Heresy, either. But that&#8217;s ancient history.</p>
<p><b>not even my all ice cream diet</b></p>
<p>If you were lifting weights, Book, then you should have been on a mostly protein diet. Milk would have been far better. The high adaptation metabolism of people that Neo has talked about, including you and me, can only gain weight via weightlifting and high protein intake. Course, you have to be maxing your weight lifting numbers. Endurance training doesn&#8217;t work.</p>
<p><b> But others dismissed the findings as fundamentally flawed, saying an overwhelming body of evidence has documented the risks of being either overweight or obese.</b></p>
<p>It is not really clear whether such health problems occur because you have more weight or because of your behavior which caused you to have such weight. If you don&#8217;t exercise, and thus gain weight, then obviously it is a question of whether you get sick because of a lack of exercise or an abundance of fat. Could be both. Could be the first. Could be the latter. Who knows. It is very very hard to conduct experiments based upon these factors since there are so many of them, with so many combinations.</p>
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		<title>By: Ophiuchus</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/11/07/another-reason-to-take-scientific-consensus-with-a-grain-of-salt/#comment-16490</link>
		<dc:creator>Ophiuchus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 22:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2078#comment-16490</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;We were so certain we knew it all a few years ago, but we didn’t.&lt;/i&gt;

What do you mean, "we", Kemosabe? ;-)

You have to differentiate between a great many players here. Let me present a fictitious example of how these things happen:

1. Sam Scientist publishes a paper in "Statistical Studies in Nutrition", entitled "Analysis of Mortality Rates for Swedish Patients during 1970 - 1990", in which he writes: "A correlation coefficient of 0.12 with a confidence of 98% was found between the incidence of valvular cardiomyopathy and body mass index."

2. Robbie Reporter publishes a story about the paper. Does he give it the headline "Weak Correlation found between Body Mass Index and Heart Disease"? Of course not! He instead writes "Scientific Study Proves: Fat People Drop Dead From Heart Attacks!!!" Does he include all the fine points, exceptions, and qualifications that were part of the original paper? Of course not! That would be boring! By the way, Fred likes to use exclamation points! Lots of them!!!

3. Dorothy Doctor tells her patient, "You really must lose weight. All the evidence indicates that being overweight will reduce your life expectancy."

4. Sally Scientist publishes a paper in the Czech Journal of Medicine" in which she presents data showing a weak negative correlation between body mass index and uterine cancer.

5. Ronnie Reporter writes a news story about Sally's paper entitled "Beat Cancer by Getting Fat!"

6. Bookworm reads Ronnie's article and concludes that you have to take scientific consensus with a grain of salt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>We were so certain we knew it all a few years ago, but we didn’t.</i></p>
<p>What do you mean, &#8220;we&#8221;, Kemosabe? <img src='http://www.bookwormroom.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
You have to differentiate between a great many players here. Let me present a fictitious example of how these things happen:</p>
<p>1. Sam Scientist publishes a paper in &#8220;Statistical Studies in Nutrition&#8221;, entitled &#8220;Analysis of Mortality Rates for Swedish Patients during 1970 - 1990&#8243;, in which he writes: &#8220;A correlation coefficient of 0.12 with a confidence of 98% was found between the incidence of valvular cardiomyopathy and body mass index.&#8221;</p>
<p>2. Robbie Reporter publishes a story about the paper. Does he give it the headline &#8220;Weak Correlation found between Body Mass Index and Heart Disease&#8221;? Of course not! He instead writes &#8220;Scientific Study Proves: Fat People Drop Dead From Heart Attacks!!!&#8221; Does he include all the fine points, exceptions, and qualifications that were part of the original paper? Of course not! That would be boring! By the way, Fred likes to use exclamation points! Lots of them!!!</p>
<p>3. Dorothy Doctor tells her patient, &#8220;You really must lose weight. All the evidence indicates that being overweight will reduce your life expectancy.&#8221;</p>
<p>4. Sally Scientist publishes a paper in the Czech Journal of Medicine&#8221; in which she presents data showing a weak negative correlation between body mass index and uterine cancer.</p>
<p>5. Ronnie Reporter writes a news story about Sally&#8217;s paper entitled &#8220;Beat Cancer by Getting Fat!&#8221;</p>
<p>6. Bookworm reads Ronnie&#8217;s article and concludes that you have to take scientific consensus with a grain of salt.</p>
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		<title>By: Webloggin - Blog Archive &#187; Another Reason To Take Scientific Consensus With A Grain Of Salt</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/11/07/another-reason-to-take-scientific-consensus-with-a-grain-of-salt/#comment-16491</link>
		<dc:creator>Webloggin - Blog Archive &#187; Another Reason To Take Scientific Consensus With A Grain Of Salt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2078#comment-16491</guid>
		<description>[...] [Discuss this article with Bookworm over at Bookworm Room&#8230;] Share Article  overweight, diabetes, kidney disease&#160;&#160;&#160; Sphere: Related Content   Trackback URL [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [Discuss this article with Bookworm over at Bookworm Room&#8230;] Share Article  overweight, diabetes, kidney disease&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sphere: Related Content   Trackback URL [...]</p>
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