ooooo Noooo, not me. You me and Obama, we’re the only sane ones.

The rest of those non-European Americans you talk about are just nuts. Except for the other ones who think appeals to the goodwill of terrorist are the best strategy. They’re wacky. But, since that’s not us, why quibble?

You and me bud, we’re tight. We are the only rational Americans left. I know you were really characterizing all those OTHER Americans who don’t agree with you, not anybody here. You know. All the peeps who go around talking about how they just wanna win, but to HECK with success! THOSE GUYS. Man, if I’ve heard that one once, why, I’ve heard it a million times.

By the way, I think you should learn how to generalize a little more. You don’t do enough of it. And you’re so darn GOOD at it. I admit, you’ve made a good start with statements like:

“The furious American reaction against 9/11 wasn’t so much about the tragedy as it was about the resentment of having the bad guys score a point against us — which meant that we had to go and score ten points against them.”

or

“Americans don’t perceive terrorism as a problem to be solved; they see it as a contest to be won.”

or

“Americans place more importance upon saving face than actually accomplishing anything.”

or

“Wars are not football games (although most Americans seem to think so).”

I believe you could accomplish more if you didn’t venerate Americans so. Dig down deep and tell us what you really think about Americans. Spend more time comparing American and Europeans as well. Maybe you can inspire more of us to emulate those dapper fellers across the pond.

We realize you don’t mean US, anyway. Just everyone who disagrees with you except for those of us here on this thread. You’re just so darn good at telling us what they really think.

Even the most moderate Leftist cannot truly avoid the inevitable consequences of their beliefs. Such beliefs will eventually cry out to be spoken and publicized. One way or another.

Toy soldiers=Chicken Qaaewk.

You see how the Left transmutes their ideology to the point where most, if not all, Leftist members use the same arguments?

Americans are not Arabs. You must be confused. Meditation helps that out and so does green tea.

They would expend the lives of our soldiers solely to save face, to look good, to “win”.

I would simply like to direct the audience’s attention to, once again, the philosophical assumptions that power Op’s arguments. Why is winning not successful conduct? Because successful conduct is only conducted through international cooperation and negotiations. Making someone lose, by winning yourself, simply creates… blowback, if you will. Being better than others… simply creates resentment and the need on the part of Arabs to kill Westerners. You see how philosophical assumptions power all such ideological arguments?

We don’t need to argue every specific statement and proposal from the Left. Their philosophy is wrong, thus most of everything that they say is wrong. Simple and very time conserving.

You might as well wish for eternal peace and prosperity on Earth, Tap. It would have a higher chance of occuring than the Left learning not to project their faults on others, at least.

What’s crystal clear to you is your distortion of a position you disagree with into something completely different. -Op

Does that have anything to do with you telling Danny to pay attention to the fact that you just don’t agree with him? The problem was that Danny doesn’t agree with you, but you made it out to be that Danny just wasn’t paying attention to you. Clever.

Ophiuchus has us nailed. DANG. Who told him we were ‘beer swilling’ rubes composed of ‘overweening pride’, ‘evil viciousness’ and ‘gross ingnorance’???

I thought we were trying keep this stuff top-secret, guys. C’mon, now, why’d someone have to go and tell him it’s all about rah rah, we’re number one? How in blazes did he figure out that we just wanna win, but don’t give a hoot about success???

Dang, is this guy a mind-reader or what? If no one told him all our secrets, well, how’d he find out? He must have esp.

Anyway, he DOES have a point. If total annihilation is impossible, why, what’s our problem, anyway? We just need to raise our standards. Maybe we can compromise. Can we kill them when they can threaten 20% of Americans (if I may be so provincial) 40%? What’s the threshold?

Anywho, Ophiuchus, it may be that it would behoove you not to accuse others of ‘caricaturing your opponent’s position’ until you get a handle on the problem yourself. I realize that you may really reaaaallly think you have us nailed, but in the absense of proof, you may just want to stick to the facts.

Ophiuchus, if you cannot see a direct correlation between that foolish attitude of my youth and the last paragraph of your previous post (9:08pm), what can I say? It’s crystal clear to me.

What’s crystal clear to you is your distortion of a position you disagree with into something completely different. You equate a position you dislike with youthful foolishness. If that’s the best argument you can come up with… well, all I can say is, “Have a nice day!”

cannoneerno4, There’s a real irony in your quotation:

That’s why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American.

Obviously, this was written before Vietnam. But it does contain an important truth: Americans place more importance upon saving face than actually accomplishing anything. This is a profound blunder. Never forget the most important sentence from von Clausewitz’s On War: “War is the extension of policy to other means.” Wars are not football games (although most Americans seem to think so). Wars are a means of accomplishing some political goal. If you’re going to expend the lives of your soldiers, you owe it to them to guarantee that they are laying down their lives for some useful purpose, something more than vanity. That’s what’s so sickening to me about this statement:

And I question the Americanism of those for whom losing is no big deal.

I wish damnation upon all Americans who place victory above success. They would expend the lives of our soldiers solely to save face, to look good, to “win”. They don’t give a damn about whether the soldiers are buying anything worthwhile with their blood — they just want to have something to cheer about when they watch the evening news as they swill their beer. Their overweening pride, their evil viciousness, and their gross ignorance of the real world are a fundamental and major threat to the well-being of our country. They claim that they support the military but in truth they are treating it like the toy soldiers from their youth. They like to think of themselves as patriots, but instead they are taking this country to perdition. They are certainly far more dangerous to our well-being than all the terrorists in the world.