Comments on: Mitt the Competent — Mitt the Candidate http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/ She escaped from the belly of the liberal beast Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:02:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Jack http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/#comment-18004 Jack Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:24:11 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2247#comment-18004 Huckabee concerns me for the same reasons you listed. Huckabee concerns me for the same reasons you listed.

]]> By: Al http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/#comment-18005 Al Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:35:54 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2247#comment-18005 Well, I've learned a hell of a lot more about the Mormon religion in this string than in the last 59 odd years. It's a young denomination and growing. Unlike my chosen denomination, Episcopalian, which is shrinking. As the American branch of the British version of Catholicism, we're far too polite to force our perspectives on someone else. And maybe we should alter that behavior. It is a good perspective and a good group of people. When JFK was elected, my father declared loudly the country was in trouble. He had endured the Catholic bigotry in Jersey City in the late 1910s. While JFK's handling of Cuba had a rocky start, his (shush) conservative economic policies strengthened the nation. Romney's success in "Taxachussettets" bodes well for his success on a larger scale. And yes, there is more to being President than just the economy. But he has learned how to improve his part of the planet constructively, allowing for most of the caciphoney of competing voices to agree. So, I don't think he will try to push us toward a Theocracy. However, my take from this string and other sources is that Mit could have as much anti Romney baggage as Clinton has anti Hillary baggage. I would hate to see what the MSM would do with some of the comments on this string. My guy is Rudy. He is a liberal Republican, which makes him problematic for many in the party. But we must win this. And Rudy can do it. My only problem with his campaign is that he seems to be only talking about terrorism. He has many achievements to boast of, which will excite conservatives. He has a twelve point policy statement which touches on most of the major issues. He turned the crime rate around in NYC by enforcing the laws on the books.(radical concept) He grew the economy by lowering taxes. (an anathema to Liberals) He is positive and forward looking. Then again, my perception of Rudy's campaign may have been influenced by our friends in the MSM. It's going to be a verrrrry interesting year. Al Well, I’ve learned a hell of a lot more about the Mormon religion in this string than in the last 59 odd years. It’s a young denomination and growing. Unlike my chosen denomination, Episcopalian, which is shrinking. As the American branch of the British version of Catholicism, we’re far too polite to force our perspectives on someone else. And maybe we should alter that behavior. It is a good perspective and a good group of people.
When JFK was elected, my father declared loudly the country was in trouble. He had endured the Catholic bigotry in Jersey City in the late 1910s. While JFK’s handling of Cuba had a rocky start, his (shush) conservative economic
policies strengthened the nation. Romney’s success in “Taxachussettets” bodes well for his success on a larger scale. And yes, there is more to being President than just the economy. But he has learned how to improve his part of the planet constructively, allowing for most of the caciphoney of competing voices to agree. So, I don’t think he will try to push us toward a Theocracy.
However, my take from this string and other sources is that Mit could have as much anti Romney baggage as Clinton has anti Hillary baggage. I would hate to see what the MSM would do with some of the comments on this string.
My guy is Rudy. He is a liberal Republican, which makes him problematic for many in the party. But we must win this. And Rudy can do it. My only problem with his campaign is that he seems to be only talking about terrorism. He has many achievements to boast of, which will excite conservatives. He has a twelve point policy statement which touches on most of the major issues. He turned the crime rate around in NYC by enforcing the laws on the books.(radical concept) He grew the economy by lowering taxes. (an anathema to Liberals) He is positive and forward looking. Then again, my perception of Rudy’s campaign may have been influenced by our friends in the MSM.
It’s going to be a verrrrry interesting year.
Al

]]> By: ymarsakar http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/#comment-18007 ymarsakar Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:05:13 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2247#comment-18007 <B>(Though one wonders if God agrees with that viewpoint - they are after all allegedly his words!)</b> That is the fundamental problem with all Revealed Religions. How do you know that the words written down by human beings really were from God or not? (Though one wonders if God agrees with that viewpoint - they are after all allegedly his words!)

That is the fundamental problem with all Revealed Religions. How do you know that the words written down by human beings really were from God or not?

]]> By: ymarsakar http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/#comment-18006 ymarsakar Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:04:05 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2247#comment-18006 What matters to me is how many enemies of America Mitt is willing to kill. I wouldn't say that that is all that matters to me, but it is a primary component underlying all else. Just as Bush's compassionate conservative component fuels most of his foreign and domestic policies. What matters to me is how many enemies of America Mitt is willing to kill.

I wouldn’t say that that is all that matters to me, but it is a primary component underlying all else. Just as Bush’s compassionate conservative component fuels most of his foreign and domestic policies.

]]> By: jj http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/#comment-18008 jj Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:03:10 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2247#comment-18008 Everybody has looney-tune ideas, Scott. Take a run through Deuteronomy chapter 13, which deals with how Jews (and presumably Christians, since they left it in), are supposed to handle people (even their own children) who disagree with them on matters religious and tell me how it differs from the kindly strictures of Islam. Not much forgiveness in sight, is there? But that's a chapter that Jews and Christians have matured sufficiently to ignore. (Though one wonders if God agrees with that viewpoint - they are after all allegedly his words!) The point is all religions, if you go and read the fine print, feature chapters, ideas, and doctrines that are clearly insane and fit nowhere in the modern world. (Or any other world, most of 'em.) They all have things to just not talk about very much, or rather shamefacedly change the subject when they come up; and this is what most people do. So, I suspect, does Mitt. He takes what he values from it in terms of his personal morality, but chooses to have only one wife, and I doubt he pays more mind to Gordon Hinckley than most Catholics do the pope, or most Buddhists do the Dalai Lama. Gordon was elected or apointed - or even anointed - by a process no less weird than the pope was (else how did everyone know who it was going to be well before the conclave started?) and probably considerably LESS weird than the process that anointed the Dalia Lama. Mitt is a fairly astute guy, he's aware that he's running for President and not Great Bird of the Galaxy. Everybody has looney-tune ideas, Scott. Take a run through Deuteronomy chapter 13, which deals with how Jews (and presumably Christians, since they left it in), are supposed to handle people (even their own children) who disagree with them on matters religious and tell me how it differs from the kindly strictures of Islam. Not much forgiveness in sight, is there?

But that’s a chapter that Jews and Christians have matured sufficiently to ignore. (Though one wonders if God agrees with that viewpoint - they are after all allegedly his words!)

The point is all religions, if you go and read the fine print, feature chapters, ideas, and doctrines that are clearly insane and fit nowhere in the modern world. (Or any other world, most of ‘em.) They all have things to just not talk about very much, or rather shamefacedly change the subject when they come up; and this is what most people do.

So, I suspect, does Mitt. He takes what he values from it in terms of his personal morality, but chooses to have only one wife, and I doubt he pays more mind to Gordon Hinckley than most Catholics do the pope, or most Buddhists do the Dalai Lama.

Gordon was elected or apointed - or even anointed - by a process no less weird than the pope was (else how did everyone know who it was going to be well before the conclave started?) and probably considerably LESS weird than the process that anointed the Dalia Lama.

Mitt is a fairly astute guy, he’s aware that he’s running for President and not Great Bird of the Galaxy.

]]> By: Scott in SF http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/#comment-18009 Scott in SF Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:48:55 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2247#comment-18009 Outside of the partisan heat we are standing in, there is very little substantive difference between Obama, Clinton, Romney, Guiliani, and Bush for that matter. Romney is a left of center Republican. We don't know if he has taken orders from the Mormon Living Prophet because that would be a secret. But Mormons do take orders from the Prophet and form local bishops. But let's face it, America loves religion but we could not elect an Haradi Orthodox Jew, an Opes Dei Catholic, a Jehovis Witness or Christian Scientist who refused medical care to their own child...this list could go on. If Romney has a chance it is in convincing people that he is a weak uncommited Mormon, and likes the TV show Big Love! Outside of the partisan heat we are standing in, there is very little substantive difference between Obama, Clinton, Romney, Guiliani, and Bush for that matter. Romney is a left of center Republican. We don’t know if he has taken orders from the Mormon Living Prophet because that would be a secret. But Mormons do take orders from the Prophet and form local bishops.
But let’s face it, America loves religion but we could not elect an Haradi Orthodox Jew, an Opes Dei Catholic, a Jehovis Witness or Christian Scientist who refused medical care to their own child…this list could go on.
If Romney has a chance it is in convincing people that he is a weak uncommited Mormon, and likes the TV show Big Love!

]]> By: Deana http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/#comment-18010 Deana Sun, 16 Dec 2007 06:42:20 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2247#comment-18010 The Mormons I have met have all been very devoted to their families, hard-working, dedicated to excellence, and kind. Romney strikes me as being very competent and not prone to nonsense so while he isn't the perfect candidate for me, I wouldn't be upset with him. I admit, though, that I do not know much about Mormonism. But is the reason there is such concern about what influence might be exercised by Mormons with Romney as President, is it because something like that has been happening while he has been governor of MA? Is there any basis for this with him? The Mormons I have met have all been very devoted to their families, hard-working, dedicated to excellence, and kind. Romney strikes me as being very competent and not prone to nonsense so while he isn’t the perfect candidate for me, I wouldn’t be upset with him.

I admit, though, that I do not know much about Mormonism. But is the reason there is such concern about what influence might be exercised by Mormons with Romney as President, is it because something like that has been happening while he has been governor of MA? Is there any basis for this with him?

]]> By: Scott in SF http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/#comment-18011 Scott in SF Sun, 16 Dec 2007 02:57:45 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2247#comment-18011 Romney is not a Utah Mormon (LDS), meaning he is probably not an extremist. My partner was raised LDS in Utah, and I've spent some quality time with Mormons. (Those Mormon girls from Moraga were really into sex back when I was a teen in the Sea Scouts.) I'm fine hanging out with Mormons, they fit well into American society. They are hard working and polite. But they have some serious loony-tune ideas. If Romney wins the primary he will lose the general election. The reason? Ex-Mormons who feel they have escaped from an evil cult will become a vocal opposition. There is a whole heck of a lot of them and they are well organized on the internet. Ex-Catholics, for instance, don't particularly want to associate with each other, but Ex-Mormons bond over having escaped a cult. My partner has sworn that she will not vote for a Mormon under any circumstances. Romney is not a Utah Mormon (LDS), meaning he is probably not an extremist. My partner was raised LDS in Utah, and I’ve spent some quality time with Mormons. (Those Mormon girls from Moraga were really into sex back when I was a teen in the Sea Scouts.) I’m fine hanging out with Mormons, they fit well into American society. They are hard working and polite. But they have some serious loony-tune ideas.
If Romney wins the primary he will lose the general election. The reason? Ex-Mormons who feel they have escaped from an evil cult will become a vocal opposition. There is a whole heck of a lot of them and they are well organized on the internet. Ex-Catholics, for instance, don’t particularly want to associate with each other, but Ex-Mormons bond over having escaped a cult.
My partner has sworn that she will not vote for a Mormon under any circumstances.

]]> By: Israel Shamir http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/#comment-18012 Israel Shamir Sun, 16 Dec 2007 02:11:36 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2247#comment-18012 Romney looks like the guy on Leave it Beaver. Giuliani looks like Nosferatu and with racist Judeosupremacists like Daniel Pipes and Norman Podhoretz guiding his foreign policy decisions he is sure to be even crazier than George Bush. Romney looks like the guy on Leave it Beaver. Giuliani looks like Nosferatu and with racist Judeosupremacists like Daniel Pipes and Norman Podhoretz guiding his foreign policy decisions he is sure to be even crazier than George Bush.

]]> By: mish http://www.bookwormroom.com/2007/12/14/mitt-the-competent-mitt-the-candidate/#comment-18013 mish Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:32:58 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2247#comment-18013 Marguerite: I rarely get into debates in blog comments, much preferring to talk one on one so I can know better where you're coming form.Having said that, a short retort. While it's nice of you to think (hope, believe?) Mitt Romney can separate church and state, I can only submit that you must not know Mormons very well or what it's like to be in a cult. I know that's circular - so let me try to give examples. Numerous examples of Mormon federal judges n Utah sitting in cases directly involving their church as a party, ruling in favor of their church, only to be overturned on appeal. Sitting on a case where you are associated with one of the parties is against the law. 28 U.S.C. S144. Yet Mormon judges steadfastly refuse to recuse, believing, like you, they can remain impartial. But if you're on the losing, non-church side, wouldn't you question their impartiality? The best (worst) example of this so far is Judge Ted Stewart, who finally recused himself after numerous requests, a writ of mandamus, a 3rd judge intervening, etc. Google for yourself and see. But step back and ask yourself if a KKK member can separate his thoughts that blacks are animals. He is inherently incapable of doing so, just as an Arab is incapable of rationally thinking about Jews. But no one in a cult knows they're in a cult, so asking them if they're biased is pointless. I trust you wouldn't want Tom Cruise for Surgeon General of the US (as Psychiatry expert) even if Cruise insists he's not in a cult and can think clearly about metal health issues. I assume you do not live in Utah? There, even if you didn't know Mormon theology, you would know how Mormons think and how they often misuse their power in government for their members and church.. Better to play it safe and not vote a Mormon in the White House. In this case, Mitt Romney. Ellie: Search that romneyforpresident blog. There's a post with a Stepford Wives photo. It explains why Mitt and Ann may never have had a fight. In Mormonism, the husband has to call the wife up from the dead. If she's not pleasing to him, he may not call her up. There is a GREAT amount of pressure to be the "perfect" wife in Mormonism. If you know any Mormon women, you can see this for yourself. Their hair is always perfect, etc. Expat: I agree with your first observation, but don't know where you were going with it. In any event, Mitt Romney is what we call a "True Believing Mormon." He is a generational Mormon, thoroughly entrenched in it. It has skewed his earliest thoughts before he knew he had any. The indoctrination into Mormonism by Mormon families is difficult for regular Americans to conceive. I know a former Mormon who still has revelations about what they put in her head. It's hard for her to know what "normal" is, having never been normal. It is overwhelming. This indoctrination cannot help but skew Romney's thinking as President in ways that we, and not even he, is aware of. But, for example, when you believe that Jesus is going to rule and reign from Independence, MO, that must certainly affect how you think about Israel and the Mid-East, just as Biblical prophecy affects my thinking about such things. (In my defense, no one is telling me what to believe. I read the Bible by myself outside of any organization.) Okay gang, sorry to hit and run, but gotta go. It's going to be a busy month until the Primaries are over. Thanks for letting me participate. Google around for yourselves about Mormonism, not so much for the theology, but how it affects the adherents. Target the ex-mo groups. They have the best stories detailing the control they were under. Marguerite:

I rarely get into debates in blog comments, much preferring to talk one on one so I can know better where you’re coming form.Having said that, a short retort.

While it’s nice of you to think (hope, believe?) Mitt Romney can separate church and state, I can only submit that you must not know Mormons very well or what it’s like to be in a cult. I know that’s circular - so let me try to give examples.

Numerous examples of Mormon federal judges n Utah sitting in cases directly involving their church as a party, ruling in favor of their church, only to be overturned on appeal.

Sitting on a case where you are associated with one of the parties is against the law. 28 U.S.C. S144. Yet Mormon judges steadfastly refuse to recuse, believing, like you, they can remain impartial. But if you’re on the losing, non-church side, wouldn’t you question their impartiality? The best (worst) example of this so far is Judge Ted Stewart, who finally recused himself after numerous requests, a writ of mandamus, a 3rd judge intervening, etc. Google for yourself and see.

But step back and ask yourself if a KKK member can separate his thoughts that blacks are animals. He is inherently incapable of doing so, just as an Arab is incapable of rationally thinking about Jews. But no one in a cult knows they’re in a cult, so asking them if they’re biased is pointless. I trust you wouldn’t want Tom Cruise for Surgeon General of the US (as Psychiatry expert) even if Cruise insists he’s not in a cult and can think clearly about metal health issues.

I assume you do not live in Utah? There, even if you didn’t know Mormon theology, you would know how Mormons think and how they often misuse their power in government for their members and church.. Better to play it safe and not vote a Mormon in the White House. In this case, Mitt Romney.

Ellie:

Search that romneyforpresident blog. There’s a post with a Stepford Wives photo. It explains why Mitt and Ann may never have had a fight.

In Mormonism, the husband has to call the wife up from the dead. If she’s not pleasing to him, he may not call her up. There is a GREAT amount of pressure to be the “perfect” wife in Mormonism. If you know any Mormon women, you can see this for yourself. Their hair is always perfect, etc.

Expat:

I agree with your first observation, but don’t know where you were going with it. In any event, Mitt Romney is what we call a “True Believing Mormon.” He is a generational Mormon, thoroughly entrenched in it. It has skewed his earliest thoughts before he knew he had any. The indoctrination into Mormonism by Mormon families is difficult for regular Americans to conceive. I know a former Mormon who still has revelations about what they put in her head. It’s hard for her to know what “normal” is, having never been normal. It is overwhelming.

This indoctrination cannot help but skew Romney’s thinking as President in ways that we, and not even he, is aware of. But, for example, when you believe that Jesus is going to rule and reign from Independence, MO, that must certainly affect how you think about Israel and the Mid-East, just as Biblical prophecy affects my thinking about such things. (In my defense, no one is telling me what to believe. I read the Bible by myself outside of any organization.)

Okay gang, sorry to hit and run, but gotta go. It’s going to be a busy month until the Primaries are over. Thanks for letting me participate.

Google around for yourselves about Mormonism, not so much for the theology, but how it affects the adherents. Target the ex-mo groups. They have the best stories detailing the control they were under.

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