Comments

  1. SGT Dave says

    BW,
    I found them very funny; unfortunately there was a bitter edge to my laughter. As a survivor of the Clinton years, I shudder every time I think about a new democrat in charge. He was the one that came up with the whole “One Army” concept that has Reservists and Guardsmen mobilizing so often; though the clock was somewhat slower pre-9/11, a reserve component soldier could expect a rotation every 4-5 years for 18 months. We stopped being “one weekend a month, two weeks a year” back in ’95.
    SGT Dave
    “Wait; don’t forget the duct tape!”

  2. T.S. says

    If campaign contributions mean anything, here’s some inight into military personel’s political pursuations::

    From USA Today:

    WASHINGTON — Democrat Barack Obama and Republican Ron Paul have little in common politically, except their opposition to the Iraq war.
    Both top a new list of presidential candidates receiving campaign contributions from people who work for the four branches of the military and National Guard, according to a study released Thursday by the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-09-13-military-donors_N.htm

  3. says

    TS has made a counter-argument. Here is my counter-counter-argument.

    There is a 3 to 1 ratio in logistics compared to infantry/front line warriors or those that actually do the firing, killing, and trigger pulling. The others are logistics or support. It used to be 7 to 1, 7 support personnel to every 1 fighter, in Vietnam. In Ancient times, it was 10+ to 1, which is how the Persians were said to have a million man army, but could only field around100,000 light infantry.

    There has always been a difference in the esprit de corps of the Army’s infantry units and the Army’s other units. Inter-service rivalry was bred out of such environments.

    It is natural for those that seek to close with an enemy to vote for people that will close with the enemy and decisively defeat and destroy that enemy. That is what infantry does. They take and then they hold. Or for the Marines, they attack and let the Army occupy after opposition has been wiped out. Fighting a new enemy, the Marines, of course, adapt.

    Bruce Altschuler, a political scientist at the State University of New York at Oswego and a Vietnam veteran, said, “The whole country has been shifting to Democrats, and the military, in some ways, is a microcosm of society.”

    Paul spokesman Jesse Benton said the military support makes sense. The congressman “wants to get (troops) out of playing the world’s policemen and get them home,” he said.

    What makes sense for someone that wants to defeat the enemy and what makes sense to someone that wants to ensure that nothing dangerous happens, are two different things.

    There is no insight to be had into human affairs from TS, the Left, or their spokesman except what came from your own.

    The military is indeed a microcosm of society. There are pacifists, traitors, incompetents, competents, and every brand of inbetween that you can think of. Blue Falcons like Kerry. The poor, the rich, the affluent, the non-affluent.

    It makes perfect sense that you make most of your money once you retire from the military and it makes perfect sense that more of that money would go into the Democrat party. But of course, precisely for the reasons listed in bold. The retired and rich soldiers do not want instability and chaos. While war requires and mandates instability and chaos.

    Course, rich and soldier are sort of mutually exclusive in some ways.

  4. Graves says

    TS has spoken. However, I’m a soldier working at a MACOM, and I’ve been asking officers and NCOs about Ron Paul, and I’ve yet to find another soldier than myself who admits to recognizing the name. Interesting, no? I realize it isn’t a statistically valid sample, but I have more faith in those men I can see than those reported to me by the MSM.

  5. T.S. says

    I was listening to the radio the other day and heard that Ron Paul leads the other candidates in campaign contributions from the military.

    I was surprised.. So I looked it up.

    Ron Paul is always characterized as being “fringe” by the MSM, but, if money talks, the military is saying something entirely different.

  6. dagon says

    or….

    you could try reading the military blogs and op-ed’s in “Stars & Stripes” like i do.

    i don’t know where you guys get your opinions but the pulse of the military has been increasingly beating counter to the bush admin’s policy of “stay the course” for quite some time now.

    the numbers that t.s. posted seem to be in keeping with that trend.

    under the bush administration we have seen an ever morphing rationale for our soldier’s service, a lack of proper treatment for those who come home maimed or mentally ill (walter reed anyone?), loss of regular employment for those in the national guard and brutal re-deployments which keep our soldiers in theater and away from their families after they have served their time.

    maybe you guys seem to think that the majority of our servicemen are dumber than i do and continue to buy this bullshit.

    it looks like they aren’t.

    peace

  7. SGT Dave says

    Dagon and all,
    While many of us are not happy with the way the war had been pursued, the prevailing opinion of many military personnel (myself included) is that the options are bad and worse. I served on active duty under Clinton; even the current deployment schedule is better than that time period. I, too, read Stars and Stripes. However, I know that the paper is not an official publication – and more than once the publishers have been chastised for political statements not in line with the purpose of the publication.
    The Walter Reed story is, unfortunately, a problem not with the Bush administration but rather with the bloated DOD bureaucracy and the VA. I have a good friend that lost his right arm at mid-bicep; he took a commission and should be hitting the ground in Afghanistan soon (he joked he was going back to find his missing parts). The system for medical and mental care is better than it ever was in the past; it is still not perfect. However, the same people decrying the fiasco at Walter Reed were the ones slashing funding (and in some cases the ones who denied benefits to Vietnam-era veterans in the 70′s and 80′s).
    Re -deployments are rough (I’m in KFOR right now after an eight month break from OIF) but this does not (and legally cannot) affect my civilian employment. It is hard on my family, but I have made a commitment, albeit it has been more than I planned, and I will honor it. We’re not dumb; I don’t trust the democratic leadership to safeguard my nation.
    The problems caused by stop-loss are serious; morale is cut severely when people are extended involuntarily. The source of the problem? You would be surprised (though those who have read a few of my rants should not be). The reduction in force of ’95-97 removed huge numbers of E5-E7 (Sergeants, Staff Sergeants, and Sergeants First Class), WO2-3 (Chief Warrant Officers), and O2-O4 (First Lieutenants, Captains, and Majors) from the service. Those men and women would have been, at this time, the battalion commanders, first sergeants, sergeant-majors, and brigade command and staff officers responsible for training and planning. It should come as no surprise that most of those who took the payout and left were in the top half of evaluated personnel in their fields. They went to places like KBR, L3, Halliburton, and Blackwater. Many that remained on active duty would have been weeded out through competition – note the number of relief for cause cases in the early days of OEF and OIF.
    Don’t forget the burden on forces from KFOR/SFOR in the Balkans; that mission had been turned over to mainly reserve forces BEFORE the OIF/OEF kickoff. These missions caused recruiting and retention problems before 9/11 and still do.
    The Army needs more funding, more soldiers, and good plans for recruiting, retention, and veterans’ benefits. One side is willing to put money out for those things; the other is not. IF democrats talk about taking care of these things they often get our support (Rep. Ike Skelton of Missouri, for one). The problem is that when they want to help us, the nuts attack them for supporting the military.
    If I have a choice of bad leadership, funding, and some mistakes against bad leadership, no funding, and lots of mistakes, guess which one I am going to back?
    Oh, and by the way – many “vocal” veterans are not those that I would consider the best source for the voice of the military. Many were forced out because they could not or would not deploy; others claimed that they never expected to go to war and wanted out. In other words; they wanted the education benefits, a salary, veterans’ benefits, and all the bonuses without the risks. The Guard and Reserve let several of these leeches go; I would have prefered to see them in jail, per the UCMJ.
    Bottom line, though, is that the military is far from monolithic. It is, however, peopled by many pragmatists that are looking to get to twenty years for a basic retirement or young people building resumes in fields where experience is required for entry-level jobs. And those pragmatists will vote their paychecks, despite other reservations – like me.
    I’m not all – republican; I just know (from first hand experience) exactly what the other side is offering.

    SGT Dave
    “There is nothing in the world so beautiful as peace; it is a shame so few are willing to pay the price for it.”

  8. says

    It’s up in the air whether dagon and TS really expect people to think they got their beliefs from data point sources like stripes or the news, given the fact that there are fundamental philosophical assumptions the two have that already assure the existence of their beliefs.

    Sources do not matter, because they never did matter. The question has never been for the Left, what can help the military and America best; the question has always been “how do I portray my side as what is best”.

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