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	<title>Comments on: Causes Parental Suffering</title>
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	<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/</link>
	<description>She escaped from the belly of the liberal beast</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Gringo</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/#comment-19446</link>
		<dc:creator>Gringo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2416#comment-19446</guid>
		<description>Greg: very thoughtful comments. Thanks for adding them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg: very thoughtful comments. Thanks for adding them.</p>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/#comment-19460</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2416#comment-19460</guid>
		<description>Thanks Lulu for taking the time to say what you think.

Almost two years ago -- when the letters-to-the-editor in my local paper reached a fevered pitch (letters whose content would break any parent's -- or grandparent's -- heart) -- I attended a presentation made by a parent-advocacy group from Colorado.

The group often finds itself in profound opposition to CPS policy and action. In contrast with Book's middle-class observations, the group said that parents of more modest means (i.e., poor parents) were the usual victims of CPS whims and indiscretions.

The horrors of foster care were convincingly discussed at length.

Unfortunately, the group's founder and chief spokeswoman was WACKO beyond sympathy. And *some* of the parents who shared their stories certainly sounded as if they deserved the CPS intervention that befell them. HINT: Don't leave your 15 year-old son to fend for himself at home while you vacation in Australia for six weeks over the Xmas holidays!

So, the presentation left me with strongly mixed feelings.

Mostly I think we should all Praise God if we never have to deal with CPS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Lulu for taking the time to say what you think.</p>
<p>Almost two years ago &#8212; when the letters-to-the-editor in my local paper reached a fevered pitch (letters whose content would break any parent&#8217;s &#8212; or grandparent&#8217;s &#8212; heart) &#8212; I attended a presentation made by a parent-advocacy group from Colorado.</p>
<p>The group often finds itself in profound opposition to CPS policy and action. In contrast with Book&#8217;s middle-class observations, the group said that parents of more modest means (i.e., poor parents) were the usual victims of CPS whims and indiscretions.</p>
<p>The horrors of foster care were convincingly discussed at length.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the group&#8217;s founder and chief spokeswoman was WACKO beyond sympathy. And *some* of the parents who shared their stories certainly sounded as if they deserved the CPS intervention that befell them. HINT: Don&#8217;t leave your 15 year-old son to fend for himself at home while you vacation in Australia for six weeks over the Xmas holidays!</p>
<p>So, the presentation left me with strongly mixed feelings.</p>
<p>Mostly I think we should all Praise God if we never have to deal with CPS.</p>
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		<title>By: Trimegistus</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/#comment-19461</link>
		<dc:creator>Trimegistus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2416#comment-19461</guid>
		<description>The hypersensitivity also helps abusers.  It makes all parents into liars and sneaks.  Would you admit to spanking your children?  Of course not -- might lead to difficulties.  So you keep it within the family.  Just like real abuse.  When everyone is keeping secrets, the ones with really atrocious secrets have an easier time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The hypersensitivity also helps abusers.  It makes all parents into liars and sneaks.  Would you admit to spanking your children?  Of course not &#8212; might lead to difficulties.  So you keep it within the family.  Just like real abuse.  When everyone is keeping secrets, the ones with really atrocious secrets have an easier time.</p>
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		<title>By: Bookworm</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/#comment-19464</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookworm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2416#comment-19464</guid>
		<description>You make very valid points, Lulu, which is unsurprising given your background.  The bee in my bonnet is busybodies who go off half-cocked and CPS employees who, once they get the bit in their teeth, can't let go.  I never hear cases of CPS being called in, looking around and backing off.  Once they're called, they seem to feel some sort of obligation to interfere with or threaten the parent, even when there is no evidence whatsoever of abuse.  This takes the "where there's smoke, there's fire" theory to unwarranted and rather horrifying extremes.  That's why I think that, in affluent communities, a lot of CPS staffers feel the need to justify their presence by making mountains out of molehills.  But these mountains and molehills affect very fundamental parent/child relationships, and make it impossible for many parents to parent, not just as they want to, but as they, knowing their child, feel is necessary for the child's well-being.

Even the best parents make mistakes and have accidents.  Indeed, I know of one family where, after the father inadvertently scratched the child while rescuing him from a tumble, the parents bandaged the child so that neighbors wouldn't get any ideas and call CPS on them.  That's the busy-body/CPS conundrum in a nutshell.  It doesn't stop bad parents; it frightens good parents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make very valid points, Lulu, which is unsurprising given your background.  The bee in my bonnet is busybodies who go off half-cocked and CPS employees who, once they get the bit in their teeth, can&#8217;t let go.  I never hear cases of CPS being called in, looking around and backing off.  Once they&#8217;re called, they seem to feel some sort of obligation to interfere with or threaten the parent, even when there is no evidence whatsoever of abuse.  This takes the &#8220;where there&#8217;s smoke, there&#8217;s fire&#8221; theory to unwarranted and rather horrifying extremes.  That&#8217;s why I think that, in affluent communities, a lot of CPS staffers feel the need to justify their presence by making mountains out of molehills.  But these mountains and molehills affect very fundamental parent/child relationships, and make it impossible for many parents to parent, not just as they want to, but as they, knowing their child, feel is necessary for the child&#8217;s well-being.</p>
<p>Even the best parents make mistakes and have accidents.  Indeed, I know of one family where, after the father inadvertently scratched the child while rescuing him from a tumble, the parents bandaged the child so that neighbors wouldn&#8217;t get any ideas and call CPS on them.  That&#8217;s the busy-body/CPS conundrum in a nutshell.  It doesn&#8217;t stop bad parents; it frightens good parents.</p>
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		<title>By: Lulu</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/#comment-19462</link>
		<dc:creator>Lulu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2416#comment-19462</guid>
		<description>Some of these horror stories make no sense to me, though I don't doubt that they could have occurred.

Re:Seargent Dave's story:
Why would someone call the CPS from an ER waiting room? All physicians are mandated reporters. Why would CPS go to a waiting room instead of waiting for the physician to examine and interview first? Reports are anonymous and even if the nurse overheard someone calling, people are allowed to report if they have a suspicion. The burden of proof according to CPS is on the parents (this is why in so many bitter divorces, parents charge the other routinely with abuse with no proof). The busybody did not commit a crime by reporting a suspicion, unless she made false claims such as stating she saw the mother strike the child.
Like I said, my experience with CPS has been under-response, not overkill. In the case described, all CPS would have had to do is call the school to verify the parents' story.
Finally. how on earth did did anyone get the background information about  the "busybody"? Shouldn't that be confidential?

Certainly it is a system needing fixing. One problem with abuse is that it doesn't occur everyday, all the time. A child could be very abused but have no marks at any given time. Many abused children are not forthcoming. They love their parents and don't want to be taken away, or they are terrified to tell and get in worse trouble. Unless the caseworker sees proof, or the parent or child admits to something (and caseworkers do have some awareness of manipulative lying teens too), they can't do much except encourage parenting and close the case for lack of evidence.

Some foster homes are great. Many are minimal improvement over the home they were removed from. A well-run orphanage could be much better fro many.
I agree with Al; most of the foster kids I have known were removed because of severe abuse or neglect  usually secondary to parental drug addiction.

It is a hard job with on the spot judgments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of these horror stories make no sense to me, though I don&#8217;t doubt that they could have occurred.</p>
<p>Re:Seargent Dave&#8217;s story:<br />
Why would someone call the CPS from an ER waiting room? All physicians are mandated reporters. Why would CPS go to a waiting room instead of waiting for the physician to examine and interview first? Reports are anonymous and even if the nurse overheard someone calling, people are allowed to report if they have a suspicion. The burden of proof according to CPS is on the parents (this is why in so many bitter divorces, parents charge the other routinely with abuse with no proof). The busybody did not commit a crime by reporting a suspicion, unless she made false claims such as stating she saw the mother strike the child.<br />
Like I said, my experience with CPS has been under-response, not overkill. In the case described, all CPS would have had to do is call the school to verify the parents&#8217; story.<br />
Finally. how on earth did did anyone get the background information about  the &#8220;busybody&#8221;? Shouldn&#8217;t that be confidential?</p>
<p>Certainly it is a system needing fixing. One problem with abuse is that it doesn&#8217;t occur everyday, all the time. A child could be very abused but have no marks at any given time. Many abused children are not forthcoming. They love their parents and don&#8217;t want to be taken away, or they are terrified to tell and get in worse trouble. Unless the caseworker sees proof, or the parent or child admits to something (and caseworkers do have some awareness of manipulative lying teens too), they can&#8217;t do much except encourage parenting and close the case for lack of evidence.</p>
<p>Some foster homes are great. Many are minimal improvement over the home they were removed from. A well-run orphanage could be much better fro many.<br />
I agree with Al; most of the foster kids I have known were removed because of severe abuse or neglect  usually secondary to parental drug addiction.</p>
<p>It is a hard job with on the spot judgments.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/#comment-19447</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 17:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2416#comment-19447</guid>
		<description>There are regular stories in the newspapers in Seattle about abuses that go on for years against children in the foster care system with CPS paying no attention whatsoever.  The last was a girl who was placed with someone who claimed to be a cousin (which was never verified).  Cousin went on to abuse girl for years, definitely more than 5, probably less than 10.  This included "punishing" her for God knows what by sticking a needle in her eye.  Girl is now half blind, of course.

On the other hand, a friend proceeded to tell me about something she had heard from a neighbor about a child living nearby who was, to my third-hand ears, indulging in major sexual acting-out.  We're talking about a five-year-old here, not a teenager, so there was probably something going on.  I told my friend to call CPS or tell her neighbor to call but no one ever did, so God knows how that little girl will survive.  This wasn't a bruise from falling down; this was a girl who was rubbing against people in a decidedly sexual manner.  Of course this was an upper middle class neighborhood so maybe nothing would have happened.

I hate the whole stinking system but I don't know what would be better.  We cannot pretend that monsters don't have children sometimes and we cannot abandon children to monsters, not unless we are ourselves monsters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are regular stories in the newspapers in Seattle about abuses that go on for years against children in the foster care system with CPS paying no attention whatsoever.  The last was a girl who was placed with someone who claimed to be a cousin (which was never verified).  Cousin went on to abuse girl for years, definitely more than 5, probably less than 10.  This included &#8220;punishing&#8221; her for God knows what by sticking a needle in her eye.  Girl is now half blind, of course.</p>
<p>On the other hand, a friend proceeded to tell me about something she had heard from a neighbor about a child living nearby who was, to my third-hand ears, indulging in major sexual acting-out.  We&#8217;re talking about a five-year-old here, not a teenager, so there was probably something going on.  I told my friend to call CPS or tell her neighbor to call but no one ever did, so God knows how that little girl will survive.  This wasn&#8217;t a bruise from falling down; this was a girl who was rubbing against people in a decidedly sexual manner.  Of course this was an upper middle class neighborhood so maybe nothing would have happened.</p>
<p>I hate the whole stinking system but I don&#8217;t know what would be better.  We cannot pretend that monsters don&#8217;t have children sometimes and we cannot abandon children to monsters, not unless we are ourselves monsters.</p>
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		<title>By: Trimegistus</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/#comment-19449</link>
		<dc:creator>Trimegistus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2416#comment-19449</guid>
		<description>Greg, explain what you mean by "ignorance."  What is factually untrue in my post?

Or is that your way of saying "LALALALALA?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, explain what you mean by &#8220;ignorance.&#8221;  What is factually untrue in my post?</p>
<p>Or is that your way of saying &#8220;LALALALALA?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: LK</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/#comment-19451</link>
		<dc:creator>LK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2416#comment-19451</guid>
		<description>The foster care system is no better or safer then an abusive home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The foster care system is no better or safer then an abusive home.</p>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/#comment-19450</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2416#comment-19450</guid>
		<description>The NJ version of CPS is DYFS -Department of Youth and Family Services. DYFS is under close scrutiny because several  years  ago, a child who had been removed from his biological parents for reasonable cause and placed in a foster home was found starved to death by the foster parents. Also, they are not paid half what they should be, and their case load is crushing. I perform the mandatory placement physical exams when a child in DYFS custody is moved from one home to another. The reasons why the kids are in DYFS custody make you cry. Parental drug use, incarceration, abandonment, and the occasional beating. Leaving a kid in a car for a few minutes isn't even on the radar screen.
Sounds like CPS has way too much time on their hands and way too much power in them. This busybody behavior is also unnerving. Power corrupts.....
It also sounds like far too many California citizens have surrendered their rights to the state government. Their toleration of CPS behavior explains the attempt by the state legislature to consider having home thermostats be controlled by the state government in times of energy "emergency". Sounds like a revolution is in order.
Al</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NJ version of CPS is DYFS -Department of Youth and Family Services. DYFS is under close scrutiny because several  years  ago, a child who had been removed from his biological parents for reasonable cause and placed in a foster home was found starved to death by the foster parents. Also, they are not paid half what they should be, and their case load is crushing. I perform the mandatory placement physical exams when a child in DYFS custody is moved from one home to another. The reasons why the kids are in DYFS custody make you cry. Parental drug use, incarceration, abandonment, and the occasional beating. Leaving a kid in a car for a few minutes isn&#8217;t even on the radar screen.<br />
Sounds like CPS has way too much time on their hands and way too much power in them. This busybody behavior is also unnerving. Power corrupts&#8230;..<br />
It also sounds like far too many California citizens have surrendered their rights to the state government. Their toleration of CPS behavior explains the attempt by the state legislature to consider having home thermostats be controlled by the state government in times of energy &#8220;emergency&#8221;. Sounds like a revolution is in order.<br />
Al</p>
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		<title>By: SGT Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/01/28/causes-parents-suffering/#comment-19452</link>
		<dc:creator>SGT Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/?p=2416#comment-19452</guid>
		<description>BW,
I have not had a run in with CPS, but one of my soldiers did.  His child fell (hard) down a flight of steps - at school.  His wife came to school and took the child to the emergency room.  A busybody in the ER called CPS about a woman "carrying in a severely beaten child".  This one, however, has a happy ending (of sorts).  CPS showed up, his wife called him - a senior lieutenant in the local PD - and he arrived shortly thereafter.  A nurse had heard the call and ID'd the busybody.
The good LT smiled briefly and relinquished the scene to a pair of officers from the major crimes unit (not his division),  They walked the CPS officers out of the ER in handcuffs, charged with attempted kidnapping.  The two had come to "claim" the abused child but had no documentation, credentials, or written authorizations.  The charges got dropped (quietly) and CPS was warned that further "no warrant" visits would be reported to the FBI as kidnapping and extortion.  The busybody was charged with misdemeanor child endangerment and falsifying a criminal report - fined about 2 grand and one year on probation.  And, oh yeah, after the initial mess it was found that her eight year old was the "babysitter" for the three and five year olds while mom &#38; dad went out on the weekend.

Go figure.
Anyhow, I can't share the city name (my friend still works there - and I don't want the CPS nazis to visit him for spreading his story).

SGT Dave - "It isn't abuse when you correct them, it is called setting limits.  Maybe if YOUR parents had done so we wouldn't be having this discussion."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BW,<br />
I have not had a run in with CPS, but one of my soldiers did.  His child fell (hard) down a flight of steps - at school.  His wife came to school and took the child to the emergency room.  A busybody in the ER called CPS about a woman &#8220;carrying in a severely beaten child&#8221;.  This one, however, has a happy ending (of sorts).  CPS showed up, his wife called him - a senior lieutenant in the local PD - and he arrived shortly thereafter.  A nurse had heard the call and ID&#8217;d the busybody.<br />
The good LT smiled briefly and relinquished the scene to a pair of officers from the major crimes unit (not his division),  They walked the CPS officers out of the ER in handcuffs, charged with attempted kidnapping.  The two had come to &#8220;claim&#8221; the abused child but had no documentation, credentials, or written authorizations.  The charges got dropped (quietly) and CPS was warned that further &#8220;no warrant&#8221; visits would be reported to the FBI as kidnapping and extortion.  The busybody was charged with misdemeanor child endangerment and falsifying a criminal report - fined about 2 grand and one year on probation.  And, oh yeah, after the initial mess it was found that her eight year old was the &#8220;babysitter&#8221; for the three and five year olds while mom &amp; dad went out on the weekend.</p>
<p>Go figure.<br />
Anyhow, I can&#8217;t share the city name (my friend still works there - and I don&#8217;t want the CPS nazis to visit him for spreading his story).</p>
<p>SGT Dave - &#8220;It isn&#8217;t abuse when you correct them, it is called setting limits.  Maybe if YOUR parents had done so we wouldn&#8217;t be having this discussion.&#8221;</p>
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