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	<title>Comments on: Racism starts young</title>
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	<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/</link>
	<description>Conservatives deal with facts and reach conclusions; liberals have conclusions and sell them as facts.</description>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/comment-page-1/#comment-26884</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/racism-starts-young/#comment-26884</guid>
		<description>&lt;B&gt;The problem with a definition such as this one is that to believe it you are already functioning completely at the level of Identity Politics. The worth of the individual is already completely negated. The very idea of judging an individual based solely on the content of his character - or on the worth of his actions - is negated.&lt;/b&gt;

The Democrats can make or unmake virtue. What need have they for such a petty thing as &quot;character&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>The problem with a definition such as this one is that to believe it you are already functioning completely at the level of Identity Politics. The worth of the individual is already completely negated. The very idea of judging an individual based solely on the content of his character &#8211; or on the worth of his actions &#8211; is negated.</b></p>
<p>The Democrats can make or unmake virtue. What need have they for such a petty thing as &#8220;character&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/comment-page-1/#comment-26883</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/racism-starts-young/#comment-26883</guid>
		<description>&lt;B&gt;That’s good.  What’s sad is that it seems as if a substantial number of kids in her school are being taught that the only thing that matters is a person’s race. &lt;/b&gt;

That is sad. But that is human nature. When human beings proclaim themselves gods, as the Democrats have done, they also claim the power to change people. Whether you like it or not.

But you can&#039;t change people. You can&#039;t make people of color superior or inferior. But they think they can. They think that just because the Democrats lost the Civil War to keep slavery going, they can uphold a superior form of slavery where black people are seen as superior, rather than innately inferior. Yet they treat them as inferiors nonetheless and give many excuses for why affirmative action needs to exist because of the current inferiority of black communities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>That’s good.  What’s sad is that it seems as if a substantial number of kids in her school are being taught that the only thing that matters is a person’s race. </b></p>
<p>That is sad. But that is human nature. When human beings proclaim themselves gods, as the Democrats have done, they also claim the power to change people. Whether you like it or not.</p>
<p>But you can&#8217;t change people. You can&#8217;t make people of color superior or inferior. But they think they can. They think that just because the Democrats lost the Civil War to keep slavery going, they can uphold a superior form of slavery where black people are seen as superior, rather than innately inferior. Yet they treat them as inferiors nonetheless and give many excuses for why affirmative action needs to exist because of the current inferiority of black communities.</p>
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		<title>By: Feel-good racism &#171; Conservative Liberal</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/comment-page-1/#comment-19802</link>
		<dc:creator>Feel-good racism &#171; Conservative Liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/racism-starts-young/#comment-19802</guid>
		<description>[...] A couple of days ago Bookworm posted a story about kids in her daughter&#8217;s school saying that people should vote for Obama because he ....  This started a discussion, in which I participated.  There was also a nice lady named Helen, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A couple of days ago Bookworm posted a story about kids in her daughter&#8217;s school saying that people should vote for Obama because he &#8230;.  This started a discussion, in which I participated.  There was also a nice lady named Helen, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Devx</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/comment-page-1/#comment-19803</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Devx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 07:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/racism-starts-young/#comment-19803</guid>
		<description>Half the battle in a debate is getting people to accept YOUR definitions.

What is racism?

“Racism is unjustified prejudice against a given race backed by the power (political and/or economic) to keep them as “second-class citizens.”

-or-

“Racism is unjustified prejudice against a given race.&quot;

I&#039;ve heard poor people - of Black, White, and Hispanic origin - expressing the foulest opinions of other people based solely upon their race.  In every way I found these opinions to be deeply racist.  It required no power structure for me to identify their comments as clearly racist.

If &quot;black people&quot;, as a race, are second-class citizens who are the victims of racism, then what do you do think of a powerful black person who makes statements that are clearly racist?

When more than half of the white people in a community vote for a Black man to have political power over them, how can you claim that racism is alive and well in that community?  By that first definition, how can you?

“Racism is unjustified prejudice against a given race backed by the power (political and/or economic) to keep them as “second-class citizens.”

The problem with a definition such as this one is that to believe it you are already functioning completely at the level of Identity Politics.  The worth of the individual is already completely negated.  The very idea of judging an individual based solely on the content of his character - or on the worth of his actions - is negated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Half the battle in a debate is getting people to accept YOUR definitions.</p>
<p>What is racism?</p>
<p>“Racism is unjustified prejudice against a given race backed by the power (political and/or economic) to keep them as “second-class citizens.”</p>
<p>-or-</p>
<p>“Racism is unjustified prejudice against a given race.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard poor people &#8211; of Black, White, and Hispanic origin &#8211; expressing the foulest opinions of other people based solely upon their race.  In every way I found these opinions to be deeply racist.  It required no power structure for me to identify their comments as clearly racist.</p>
<p>If &#8220;black people&#8221;, as a race, are second-class citizens who are the victims of racism, then what do you do think of a powerful black person who makes statements that are clearly racist?</p>
<p>When more than half of the white people in a community vote for a Black man to have political power over them, how can you claim that racism is alive and well in that community?  By that first definition, how can you?</p>
<p>“Racism is unjustified prejudice against a given race backed by the power (political and/or economic) to keep them as “second-class citizens.”</p>
<p>The problem with a definition such as this one is that to believe it you are already functioning completely at the level of Identity Politics.  The worth of the individual is already completely negated.  The very idea of judging an individual based solely on the content of his character &#8211; or on the worth of his actions &#8211; is negated.</p>
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		<title>By: Tap</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/comment-page-1/#comment-19804</link>
		<dc:creator>Tap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/racism-starts-young/#comment-19804</guid>
		<description>I am wondering why Helenl assumes that the children who said people should vote for Obama because he is black were black children. It never occured to me to assign a color to them until I saw that Helenl had.

If I had to guess, I would suppose the vast majority of these children were white, because Bookworm so often tells us she lives in a liberal enclave in California.

Most  areas dominated by people with left wing  leanings have been quite effective at weeding out the poor and the black populations through local zoning laws and local ordinances.

I also find Helenl&#039;s definition of racism to be quite interesting:

&quot;Racism is unjustified prejudice against a given race backed by the power (political and/or economic) to keep them as “second-class citizens.&quot;

 I understand the reasoning behind including the part about  &#039;backed by the political power&#039; - it is meant to exclude the possibility of black people in America being racists. I&#039;ve heard that often enough..black Americans are incapable of racism because they don&#039;t have the political power to enforce it in any way.

What makes that so interesting to me though, is that this definition also excludes the possibility of racism on my part (and a whole lot of other people I know).

 I, a white southerner,  am not capable of racism.....imagine that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am wondering why Helenl assumes that the children who said people should vote for Obama because he is black were black children. It never occured to me to assign a color to them until I saw that Helenl had.</p>
<p>If I had to guess, I would suppose the vast majority of these children were white, because Bookworm so often tells us she lives in a liberal enclave in California.</p>
<p>Most  areas dominated by people with left wing  leanings have been quite effective at weeding out the poor and the black populations through local zoning laws and local ordinances.</p>
<p>I also find Helenl&#8217;s definition of racism to be quite interesting:</p>
<p>&#8220;Racism is unjustified prejudice against a given race backed by the power (political and/or economic) to keep them as “second-class citizens.&#8221;</p>
<p> I understand the reasoning behind including the part about  &#8216;backed by the political power&#8217; &#8211; it is meant to exclude the possibility of black people in America being racists. I&#8217;ve heard that often enough..black Americans are incapable of racism because they don&#8217;t have the political power to enforce it in any way.</p>
<p>What makes that so interesting to me though, is that this definition also excludes the possibility of racism on my part (and a whole lot of other people I know).</p>
<p> I, a white southerner,  am not capable of racism&#8230;..imagine that!</p>
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		<title>By: Deana</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/comment-page-1/#comment-19806</link>
		<dc:creator>Deana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/racism-starts-young/#comment-19806</guid>
		<description>Helen -

If a private company was heading into financial ruin and the CEO went to the board and complained that he was only being given four years to make even the most modest of improvements, he&#039;d be given four minutes to walk out the door.

How long do you want to see us wait before we can claim that a government program of that nature is not working and at least admit that something else must be the problem?

I currently work at a hospital that provides health care for a population that is approximately 75% black.  It is instructive to observe the differences between the elderly and young black people we see there.  The elderly, who certainly experienced a racism that their grandchildren and great-grandchildren cannot even imagine, tend to be the ones who made something of themselves . . . meaning that they started with nothing and without help from anyone other than family and friends, and built something.  A career, a little business, whatever.

The young . . . well, it&#039;s a different story.  You simply can&#039;t GIVE them enough to help them get themselves to a better place.

One day, we were providing care to some little kids in a free daycare clinic.  Almost all were black.  One kid right after another came up with cavities in their baby teeth that I previously would have said were impossible to have.  (It is disconcerting to look in the mouth of a four year old and realize that he has a &quot;grill&quot; and is proud of it.)  Their teeth literally were worn down in half, Helen.

So I asked if there was a free dental clinic available.  Sure, there was.  But I was told that the parents just didn&#039;t go.  They sometimes said they didn&#039;t have transportation.  But that is ridiculous - all the parents had cell phones and tvs.  They somehow got their kids to the day care centers.  All the little girls had some pretty fancy clothes and hairstyles.  And the little kids would tell us of things they did with their families.  Bottom line:  if the families had made it a priority, the kids would have received dental care and a lot of other assistance to boot.  They chose not to.

You are right - racism does exist in America.  (Although as Eric clearly demonstrated, America never held the monopoly on it.)  But there is only so much that government programs and concerned white people can do.  Until more black Americans start standing up and addressing the issues that Lulu raised:

- single mothers and the absence of fathers
- teenage mothers
- substance abuse
- dropping out of school leading to unskilled work force

we will never, ever see the end of the black middle class, no matter how many more fabulous programs we fund.

For those interested, Henry Louis Gates, Jr. has been working on a series of TV shows called African American Lives.  In it, he researched the ancestors of several black Americans and then met with them to show them what he found.  In case after case, what you see are black Americans who were literally 5-60 years out of slavery who did really extraordinary things for their community.  They purchased land and then sold it at a loss to build a school.  They ran for office and won.  They started businesses.  It really is a beautiful, often painful, but necessary show .  I don&#039;t know what exactly motivated Gates to do it but it showcases what black Americans were able to achieve BEFORE the advent of massive federal programs in the face of horrid, unforgiveable racism when black Americans were grounded in much stronger family environments.  A google search would probably pull up the information needed for those who would like to catch the rest of the series.

Deana</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helen -</p>
<p>If a private company was heading into financial ruin and the CEO went to the board and complained that he was only being given four years to make even the most modest of improvements, he&#8217;d be given four minutes to walk out the door.</p>
<p>How long do you want to see us wait before we can claim that a government program of that nature is not working and at least admit that something else must be the problem?</p>
<p>I currently work at a hospital that provides health care for a population that is approximately 75% black.  It is instructive to observe the differences between the elderly and young black people we see there.  The elderly, who certainly experienced a racism that their grandchildren and great-grandchildren cannot even imagine, tend to be the ones who made something of themselves . . . meaning that they started with nothing and without help from anyone other than family and friends, and built something.  A career, a little business, whatever.</p>
<p>The young . . . well, it&#8217;s a different story.  You simply can&#8217;t GIVE them enough to help them get themselves to a better place.</p>
<p>One day, we were providing care to some little kids in a free daycare clinic.  Almost all were black.  One kid right after another came up with cavities in their baby teeth that I previously would have said were impossible to have.  (It is disconcerting to look in the mouth of a four year old and realize that he has a &#8220;grill&#8221; and is proud of it.)  Their teeth literally were worn down in half, Helen.</p>
<p>So I asked if there was a free dental clinic available.  Sure, there was.  But I was told that the parents just didn&#8217;t go.  They sometimes said they didn&#8217;t have transportation.  But that is ridiculous &#8211; all the parents had cell phones and tvs.  They somehow got their kids to the day care centers.  All the little girls had some pretty fancy clothes and hairstyles.  And the little kids would tell us of things they did with their families.  Bottom line:  if the families had made it a priority, the kids would have received dental care and a lot of other assistance to boot.  They chose not to.</p>
<p>You are right &#8211; racism does exist in America.  (Although as Eric clearly demonstrated, America never held the monopoly on it.)  But there is only so much that government programs and concerned white people can do.  Until more black Americans start standing up and addressing the issues that Lulu raised:</p>
<p>- single mothers and the absence of fathers<br />
- teenage mothers<br />
- substance abuse<br />
- dropping out of school leading to unskilled work force</p>
<p>we will never, ever see the end of the black middle class, no matter how many more fabulous programs we fund.</p>
<p>For those interested, Henry Louis Gates, Jr. has been working on a series of TV shows called African American Lives.  In it, he researched the ancestors of several black Americans and then met with them to show them what he found.  In case after case, what you see are black Americans who were literally 5-60 years out of slavery who did really extraordinary things for their community.  They purchased land and then sold it at a loss to build a school.  They ran for office and won.  They started businesses.  It really is a beautiful, often painful, but necessary show .  I don&#8217;t know what exactly motivated Gates to do it but it showcases what black Americans were able to achieve BEFORE the advent of massive federal programs in the face of horrid, unforgiveable racism when black Americans were grounded in much stronger family environments.  A google search would probably pull up the information needed for those who would like to catch the rest of the series.</p>
<p>Deana</p>
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		<title>By: helenl</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/comment-page-1/#comment-19805</link>
		<dc:creator>helenl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/racism-starts-young/#comment-19805</guid>
		<description>see reply at my blog http://helenl.wordpress.com/2008/02/07/black-history-today-starting-in-the-middle-but-refusing-to-%e2%80%9cuse%e2%80%9d-king/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>see reply at my blog <a href="http://helenl.wordpress.com/2008/02/07/black-history-today-starting-in-the-middle-but-refusing-to-%e2%80%9cuse%e2%80%9d-king/" rel="nofollow">http://helenl.wordpress.com/2008/02/07/black-history-today-starting-in-the-middle-but-refusing-to-%e2%80%9cuse%e2%80%9d-king/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eric-Odessit</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/comment-page-1/#comment-19808</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric-Odessit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/racism-starts-young/#comment-19808</guid>
		<description>Helen,
One more thing.  My poverty is not bigger than your poverty.  Because families with their own apartments, cars, TVs and other stuff are not pour, even if they are less well off than some other people.
Eric.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helen,<br />
One more thing.  My poverty is not bigger than your poverty.  Because families with their own apartments, cars, TVs and other stuff are not pour, even if they are less well off than some other people.<br />
Eric.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric-Odessit</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/comment-page-1/#comment-19807</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric-Odessit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/racism-starts-young/#comment-19807</guid>
		<description>Helen,
There are stories of Tuskegee Airmen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen), Black Panthers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/761st_Tank_Battalion_%28United_States%29) and Red Ball Express (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ball_Express).  There were others as well.  Are these stories limited to Black History?  Because I view them as part of the overall history of World War 2.  Why do these stories have to be separated?  Those units were segregated back in World War 2.  Why do you want to continue?  Why not just say that those men faced idiotic racism and proved themselves, and then concentrate on their heroism, rather than their blackness?
You seem to want to try to end racism by directing racism in the other direction.  But that does not work.  The only way to end racism is just to end it.  Just recognizing that prejudging people on the basis of their ethnicity is idiotic, to say the least, would go a long way.
By the way, thank you for visiting my blog and commenting on it.  I hope you would read this: http://conservativlib.wordpress.com/why-conservative-liberal/
This explains why I think that I am a true liberal, while you are not.
Eric.
I will copy this also to your blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helen,<br />
There are stories of Tuskegee Airmen (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen</a>), Black Panthers (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/761st_Tank_Battalion_%28United_States%29" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/761st_Tank_Battalion_%28United_States%29</a>) and Red Ball Express (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ball_Express" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ball_Express</a>).  There were others as well.  Are these stories limited to Black History?  Because I view them as part of the overall history of World War 2.  Why do these stories have to be separated?  Those units were segregated back in World War 2.  Why do you want to continue?  Why not just say that those men faced idiotic racism and proved themselves, and then concentrate on their heroism, rather than their blackness?<br />
You seem to want to try to end racism by directing racism in the other direction.  But that does not work.  The only way to end racism is just to end it.  Just recognizing that prejudging people on the basis of their ethnicity is idiotic, to say the least, would go a long way.<br />
By the way, thank you for visiting my blog and commenting on it.  I hope you would read this: <a href="http://conservativlib.wordpress.com/why-conservative-liberal/" rel="nofollow">http://conservativlib.wordpress.com/why-conservative-liberal/</a><br />
This explains why I think that I am a true liberal, while you are not.<br />
Eric.<br />
I will copy this also to your blog.</p>
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		<title>By: helenl</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/06/racism-starts-young/comment-page-1/#comment-19766</link>
		<dc:creator>helenl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://proto2.webloggin.com/racism-starts-young/#comment-19766</guid>
		<description>This is about racism, poverty, and violence.  The three are intertwined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is about racism, poverty, and violence.  The three are intertwined.</p>
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