Comments on: Waterboard protestors are all wet

By: Ymarsakar

Ymarsakar — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:14:33 +0000

To the Left, all kinds of violence initiated by the US is torture. And all kinds of emotional and revolutionary violence done by the Left becomes compassionate policy making, Book.

By: Webloggin - Blog Archive » Waterboard Protestors are All Wet

Webloggin - Blog Archive » Waterboard Protestors are All Wet — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:36:59 +0000

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By: Mike Devx

Mike Devx — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:43:54 +0000

I’m conflicted on this one.

“Enhanced interrogation techniques” is one of those jargon phrases that makes me grit my teeth. A garbageman is a “Mobile Sanitation Engineer”…

Such phrases hide truth rather than reveal it.

Done properly, waterboarding causes no lasting physical harm. But I think of it as a fast form of forced drowning. It’s extraordinarily stressful in a way that causes a person’s will to inevitably break within just a few minutes. This cannot be considered a good thing.

But I believe we have it exactly right. It should be used only in emergency situations, where information is needed rapidly and time is critical. I find its use troubling enough that I can accept requiring a Presidential Executive Order to for its use.

However, because its use provokes a reflexive terror rather than physical damage, I want it to remain available as a necessary tool in emergency situations. It’s as humane as it can possibly get under such an unpleasant but dire situation.

By: Walter K. Fales

Walter K. Fales — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:21:12 +0000

I am sorry but I have to oppose water boarding as is torture. I do believe that we are better than those who do treat people cruelly. I have heard many times that the military and the FBI do not do use torture (such as water boarding) in interrogation. They apparently have methods that work more reliably. If water boarding is such a good tool why wouldn’t we use it in our country to get information from suspects? We did use “3rd degree” techniques in the United States in the past and the Federal Government now actively fights any jurisdiction in the U.S. that does it now.

I believe my Christian beliefs require me to oppose these “enhanced techniques” particularly when they are used by my government.

By: rockdalian

rockdalian — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:56:46 +0000

Do not forget that McCain will abolish this practice and close Gitmo with the intent of introducing the prisoners to the American legal system.

By: expat

expat — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:19:19 +0000

More kudos for OG from here. To add to your point about the left defining terms, I actually saw blindfolding included in a list of our torture sins. Think of all the sins I committed playing pin the tail on the donkey as a child.

By: Bookworm

Bookworm — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:41:55 +0000

What an excellent point, Oceanguy. When everything is defined as torture, the term becomes so corrupt that you can’t have an intelligent debate about what actually constitutes torture, and what techniques work and what don’t work — or, what techniques work but that are so soul-destroying for the actor they shouldn’t be used anyway. It also destroys the ability to balance interests. Torture across the board makes us exactly the same as Hussein, but what about carefully targeted techniques on high value individuals when time is of the essence?

There is a big problem with creating loose definitions and hard lines. Both deny us, as a nation, the flexibility to deal with real situations and, perhaps, the analytical ability to deal with most situations.

This is the same thing I always get irritated about with the abortion debate. I think the debate is fatally tainted by the fact that the Left still argues abortion as if it’s 1955, there’s no or limited birth control, and women face social annihilation if they get pregnant, with the only option being a coat hanger. We need to examine the here and now of abortion, where we live in a world of easy access to birth control and low stigma for pregnancy. Also, we need to recognize that the abortion debate isn’t about making it illegal, but is about returning it to states so that the law suits community norms.

In other words, OC: cheers to you for recognizing that debate is honest only if our definitions and facts mesh with reality.

By: suek

suek — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:23:36 +0000

oceanguy…
very good, very thoughtful article. You define the problem well. I comment on several blogs, and have on several occasions asked a liberal minded person with an opposing opinion to define certain terms. Usually they won’t. They avoid it by saying something like “you’re an intelligent person - you know what it means” or “you’re too stupid to waste time on - everybody knows what that means”. But in fact, we all understand words to have slightly different meanings. What they are doing is exactly what you’re saying - avoiding debate by assigning whatever meaning they want to specific words, and shading/changing those meanings to move the goal posts.
I don’t know if this is something we can change, but we need to if there is ever to be reasonable discussion.

By: Allen L.

Allen L. — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:18:52 +0000

When I think of torture, I do not think of waterboarding. It can work, and it is very aggressive, but it just doesn’t fit my definition of torture.

It is as if a slap can be construed as a beating. Yes they both involve aggression and physical contact but there are degrees involved.

By: Thomas

Thomas — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:42:39 +0000

Hello Bookworm,

As a friend of mine exclaimed during the initial invasion of Iraq when reporters and commentators were so critical and so fearful of collateral damage for fear of negative public opinion, “So who CAN I OFFEND?!!”

I seriously doubt that our enemies would be deterred from their purposes through strong, vehement, bold, underlined, italicized language. Offensive language is a fine thing when used in a proper context, but it is quite ineffective against a terrorist with an AK-47 and a head full of jihad against the infidels.

But, hey, waterboarding terrorists for good intelligence is A-OK with me.