Comments on: Philip’s Complaint, or Liberal political thinking in a nutshell http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/ She escaped from the belly of the liberal beast Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:04:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Liam Hodder http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20018 Liam Hodder Tue, 12 Feb 2008 05:44:49 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20018 What we now characterize as Baby Boom attitudes infected that generation (my own) in the '60s but actually migrated into the mainstream from the Marxist intellectual elite of the previous generation, so Roth and his contemporaries, tho' older, are in ideology and philosophy etc identical to the Baby Boomers themselves. They are also, as we see, equally incoherent. Roth's 'The Human Stain', however, is excellent and deals with race and Political Correctness in a startlingly thoughtful and provoking way - and with a kick-ass twist. The smugness and priapism inseparable from Lefty EngLit don't get in the way once you fight past the opening pages. The guy's got talent and brains and an intellectual avoir du pois lacking in younger novelists. What we now characterize as Baby Boom
attitudes infected that generation (my own)
in the ’60s but actually migrated into the
mainstream from the Marxist intellectual
elite of the previous generation, so Roth and
his contemporaries, tho’ older, are
in ideology and philosophy etc identical to
the Baby Boomers themselves. They are also,
as we see, equally incoherent. Roth’s ‘The
Human Stain’, however, is excellent and
deals with race and Political Correctness in a
startlingly thoughtful and provoking way
- and with a kick-ass twist.
The smugness and priapism inseparable
from Lefty EngLit don’t get in the way once
you fight past the opening pages. The guy’s
got talent and brains and an intellectual
avoir du pois lacking in younger novelists.

]]> By: Zhombre http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20019 Zhombre Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:46:02 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20019 Boran, a novelist trades in ideas, perceptions, and social observation; his or her work is primarily intellectual where the work of an athlete is physical; especially for a man of Roth's generation, his politics are much more wedded to his politics than Michael Jordan's ability to move a basketball are wedded to his, if he has any that are substantive. Would you separate the work of Orwell or Arthur Koestler or Solzhenitzyn from their political viewpoints? Boran, a novelist trades in ideas, perceptions, and social observation; his or her work is primarily intellectual where the work of an athlete is physical; especially for a man of Roth’s generation, his politics are much more wedded to his politics than Michael Jordan’s ability to move a basketball are wedded to his, if he has any that are substantive. Would you separate the work of Orwell or Arthur Koestler or Solzhenitzyn from their political viewpoints?

]]> By: Bookworm http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20020 Bookworm Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:57:19 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20020 Boran, it doesn't work to castigate me by asking "have you ever read anything by Philip Roth?" as if to shame me for not reading something, when it's apparent that <i>you</i> haven't read what I've written. If you had, you would have seen that, in my very first sentence I say I haven't read anything by Philip Roth. I've tried, Lord knows I've tried, but I find him unreadable. His writing style and outlook on life so quickly offend and bore me (and that's my purely subjective opinion), that I've never put myself to the task of reading a book of his in its entirety. To me, the gold standard for writing and thinking is Jane Austen. Roth is the un-gold standard -- the polar opposite of what I value in a writer. Whether he is "good" is irrelevant to me. I can't read his stuff. Boran, it doesn’t work to castigate me by asking “have you ever read anything by Philip Roth?” as if to shame me for not reading something, when it’s apparent that you haven’t read what I’ve written. If you had, you would have seen that, in my very first sentence I say I haven’t read anything by Philip Roth. I’ve tried, Lord knows I’ve tried, but I find him unreadable. His writing style and outlook on life so quickly offend and bore me (and that’s my purely subjective opinion), that I’ve never put myself to the task of reading a book of his in its entirety. To me, the gold standard for writing and thinking is Jane Austen. Roth is the un-gold standard — the polar opposite of what I value in a writer. Whether he is “good” is irrelevant to me. I can’t read his stuff.

]]> By: Boran Miller http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20016 Boran Miller Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:47:53 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20016 Excuse me, but have you ever read anything by Philip Roth? Your comments about his work are risible. You say that Roth never emerged from adolescence, but you yourself write like you're in kindergarten. By the way, I am a conservative and disagree completely with Roth's political views. But I'm not stupid enough to say that Michael Jordan was a lousy basketball player because he endorsed Bill Bradley. Separate Roth's art from his politics, genius. Excuse me, but have you ever read anything by Philip Roth? Your comments about his work are risible. You say that Roth never emerged from adolescence, but you yourself write like you’re in kindergarten.

By the way, I am a conservative and disagree completely with Roth’s political views. But I’m not stupid enough to say that Michael Jordan was a lousy basketball player because he endorsed Bill Bradley. Separate Roth’s art from his politics, genius.

]]> By: expat http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20023 expat Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:24:44 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20023 BW, Davids Medienkritik also deals with Roth and has an interesting comment on German resistance to differing viewpoints. BW,

Davids Medienkritik also deals with Roth and has an interesting comment on German resistance to differing viewpoints.

]]> By: Bookworm http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20021 Bookworm Mon, 11 Feb 2008 04:59:48 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20021 You're right, neocon, that he's too old to be a Baby Boomer, but I, on the tail end of the Boomer generation, always understood my fellow Boomers to believe he was one of theirs. Maybe I just misunderstood! :) You’re right, neocon, that he’s too old to be a Baby Boomer, but I, on the tail end of the Boomer generation, always understood my fellow Boomers to believe he was one of theirs. Maybe I just misunderstood! :)

]]> By: neocon hippie http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20024 neocon hippie Mon, 11 Feb 2008 04:53:20 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20024 Book, Philip Roth was born in 1933, which means he isn't anywhere close to being a Baby Boomer. The year that he published Goodbye, Columbus, the oldest Boomers (using the orthodox definition as beginning in 1946) were just old enough to be Bar/Bat Mitzvahed. Book, Philip Roth was born in 1933, which means he isn’t anywhere close to being a Baby Boomer. The year that he published Goodbye, Columbus, the oldest Boomers (using the orthodox definition as beginning in 1946) were just old enough to be Bar/Bat Mitzvahed.

]]> By: Webloggin - Blog Archive » How They See Us http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20025 Webloggin - Blog Archive » How They See Us Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:48:13 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20025 [...] In my post about Philip Roth, I pointed out that he characterizes Republicans as “brutal” (unlike Democrats, of course). I just saw the same theme crop up in an article about the insanity that promises to envelope Berkeley’s town council meeting on Tuesday as the town considers rescinding its ill-thought out letter to the Marines. To begin with, there may be a lot of people there: Hundreds of protesters from across the country and the political spectrum are expected to descend on City Hall with bullhorns, drums, banners and plenty of vitriol in anticipation of the City Council’s debate over the Marines’ recruiting station in town. [...] [...] In my post about Philip Roth, I pointed out that he characterizes Republicans as “brutal” (unlike Democrats, of course). I just saw the same theme crop up in an article about the insanity that promises to envelope Berkeley’s town council meeting on Tuesday as the town considers rescinding its ill-thought out letter to the Marines. To begin with, there may be a lot of people there: Hundreds of protesters from across the country and the political spectrum are expected to descend on City Hall with bullhorns, drums, banners and plenty of vitriol in anticipation of the City Council’s debate over the Marines’ recruiting station in town. [...]

]]> By: Oldflyer http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20026 Oldflyer Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:42:44 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20026 This business of race intrigues me some times. I cannot help being curious as to how much "race" you need to put you in one category or another. In the case of Obama, we know that he had a white mother and a black father. So, apparently that makes him black--at least when it is convenient to be black. We have various stories about the culture that dominated his childhood. Since his black father abandoned him early on, I am not sure why we would assume it was a black culture, more that an Indonesian or white one. In fact we do know that except when he was in Indonesia (and educated as a Muslim?), he was apparently educated in a predominately white environment. I have tentatively concluded that a person's race in circumstances such as this often what is most advantageous. I have a good friend who is about one-fourth Cherokee. She has never lived in the American Indian culture. Other than strikingly black hair she has few physical characteristics that would identify her as Indian. Yet it is to her advantage to be defined as American Indian because the U.S. Government sees fit to pay her a monthly stipend; presumably to indemnify her for her (non-existent) suffering. (That is a hoot because her husband is a retired Captain from a major airline and they are very well-off). I am desperarately trying to confirm that my father's family has a certain per centage of Plains Indian blood (which I suspect) because although I am of a conservative nature, I do love government checks. So, Roth wants Obama to be elected because he is black. I cannot help but wonder if his maternal family every wonders when and how they became totally discounted. I would guess that it happened about the time he decided to enter politics, or perhaps when he completed his application to Harvard. Well, I just wonder when we will start evaluating Mr Obama on his credentials and his governing principles (as G. W. Bush phrased it so well on Fox News Sunday this A.M.). This business of race intrigues me some times.

I cannot help being curious as to how much “race” you need to put you in one category or another. In the case of Obama, we know that he had a white mother and a black father. So, apparently that makes him black–at least when it is convenient to be black. We have various stories about the culture that dominated his childhood. Since his black father abandoned him early on, I am not sure why we would assume it was a black culture, more that an Indonesian or white one. In fact we do know that except when he was in Indonesia (and educated as a Muslim?), he was apparently educated in a predominately white environment.

I have tentatively concluded that a person’s race in circumstances such as this often what is most advantageous. I have a good friend who is about one-fourth Cherokee. She has never lived in the American Indian culture. Other than strikingly black hair she has few physical characteristics that would identify her as Indian. Yet it is to her advantage to be defined as American Indian because the U.S. Government sees fit to pay her a monthly stipend; presumably to indemnify her for her (non-existent) suffering. (That is a hoot because her husband is a retired Captain from a major airline and they are very well-off). I am desperarately trying to confirm that my father’s family has a certain per centage of Plains Indian blood (which I suspect) because although I am of a conservative nature, I do love government checks.

So, Roth wants Obama to be elected because he is black. I cannot help but wonder if his maternal family every wonders when and how they became totally discounted. I would guess that it happened about the time he decided to enter politics, or perhaps when he completed his application to Harvard.

Well, I just wonder when we will start evaluating Mr Obama on his credentials and his governing principles (as G. W. Bush phrased it so well on Fox News Sunday this A.M.).

]]> By: expat http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/09/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20015 expat Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:17:37 +0000 http://proto2.webloggin.com/philips-complaint-or-liberal-political-thinking-in-a-nutshell/#comment-20015 BW, Roth's comments are par for the course in Europe. Every Hollywood type, writer, artist and silicone-enhanced airhead who visits the continent delivers such drivel as an admision fee. Those who bravely speak truth to power are certainly conscious that catering to the prejudice of potential consumers will be reflected in the bottom line. They also feed their errroneous belief that such behavior makes them relevant. They may receive an award, as did Susan Sontag, or they may be remembered as icons long after Americans have ceased to seek their counsel, as in the case of Norman Mailer. It's all about being in the in crowd in a place where the common man must bow before his betters. Yep, they want to get up there with Michael Moore. BW,
Roth’s comments are par for the course in Europe. Every Hollywood type, writer, artist and silicone-enhanced airhead who visits the continent delivers such drivel as an admision fee. Those who bravely speak truth to power are certainly conscious that catering to the prejudice of potential consumers will be reflected in the bottom line. They also feed their errroneous belief that such behavior makes them relevant. They may receive an award, as did Susan Sontag, or they may be remembered as icons long after Americans have ceased to seek their counsel, as in the case of Norman Mailer. It’s all about being in the in crowd in a place where the common man must bow before his betters. Yep, they want to get up there with Michael Moore.

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