Comments on: The politics of Clemens http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/ She escaped from the belly of the liberal beast Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:58:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Ymarsakar http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20306 Ymarsakar Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:16:22 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20306 The Roman Empire lasted far longer than 400 years after Caligula. But they were only able to do that by moving their capital to Constantinople. The "Byzantines" thought of themselves as Roman until their end. And of course, having a base in control of Egypt-Alexandreia-Syria didn't hurt either. When Rome lost Egypt to the Muslim conquests, it was all over but the dying. Egypt was a huge grain and trade supply source. The Roman Empire lasted far longer than 400 years after Caligula. But they were only able to do that by moving their capital to Constantinople. The “Byzantines” thought of themselves as Roman until their end. And of course, having a base in control of Egypt-Alexandreia-Syria didn’t hurt either.

When Rome lost Egypt to the Muslim conquests, it was all over but the dying. Egypt was a huge grain and trade supply source.

]]> By: Don Quixote http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20305 Don Quixote Mon, 18 Feb 2008 00:51:22 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20305 Good point, Zhombre! Good point, Zhombre!

]]> By: Zhombre http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20304 Zhombre Sun, 17 Feb 2008 23:12:55 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20304 Enough with the bread and circuses and the Roman collapse hand-wringing. Rome lasted more than 400 years after the squalid corruption of its early emperors and I have no doubt America will prove much more resilient and endure longer. Congress investigating steroid use in baseball is a good thing because it keeps a jerk political hack like Waxman, who heads the committee, from doing more serious harm. Enough with the bread and circuses and the Roman collapse hand-wringing. Rome lasted more than 400 years after the squalid corruption of its early emperors and I have no doubt America will prove much more resilient and endure longer. Congress investigating steroid use in baseball is a good thing because it keeps a jerk political hack like Waxman, who heads the committee, from doing more serious harm.

]]> By: Mike Devx http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20302 Mike Devx Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:19:43 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20302 Well, specifically on the Clemens case, you have testimony by Chuck Knoblauch and Andy Pettite supporting the (disreputable) trainer - and all three accepted by Mitchell. In their suppport you also have the (questionable) Jose Canseco. Against all of these, you have Clemens alone. It's not a good place for Clemens to have to be standing alone, given the suspicion of widespread use of steroids and HGH by most professional athletes. I have no explanation for the partisan divide on this issue. Because it defies rationality, it therefore *MUST* come down to moneyed supporters: lobbyists. When it doubt, follow the money, follow the money. It's televised and discussed widely on the news because the people are fascinated and want it. I would wish our media and our elected officials would not lower themselves to this level, but they have been and they are. They won't stop now. That's why I discussed "bread and circuses": When even the supposedly wisest among us are stooping so low; when then there are few wise leaders anywhere to be seen; when the "momentum" is towards worse levels of exploitative infotainments and Senate and House sideshows... you have to ask where we can go from here. Gotta run! A Britney story just came on! And another report about one missing pretty blonde young thang, instead of about the other 900,000 each year who go missing that aren't pretty blonde young thangs. Well, specifically on the Clemens case, you have testimony by Chuck Knoblauch and Andy Pettite supporting the (disreputable) trainer - and all three accepted by Mitchell. In their suppport you also have the (questionable) Jose Canseco. Against all of these, you have Clemens alone. It’s not a good place for Clemens to have to be standing alone, given the suspicion of widespread use of steroids and HGH by most professional athletes.

I have no explanation for the partisan divide on this issue. Because it defies rationality, it therefore *MUST* come down to moneyed supporters: lobbyists. When it doubt, follow the money, follow the money.

It’s televised and discussed widely on the news because the people are fascinated and want it. I would wish our media and our elected officials would not lower themselves to this level, but they have been and they are. They won’t stop now. That’s why I discussed “bread and circuses”: When even the supposedly wisest among us are stooping so low; when then there are few wise leaders anywhere to be seen; when the “momentum” is towards worse levels of exploitative infotainments and Senate and House sideshows… you have to ask where we can go from here.

Gotta run! A Britney story just came on! And another report about one missing pretty blonde young thang, instead of about the other 900,000 each year who go missing that aren’t pretty blonde young thangs.

]]> By: Ymarsakar http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20301 Ymarsakar Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:16:00 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20301 <B>The media will always report what people are interested in, and people are intensely interested in sports.</b> People are interested in helping human life and war. So what you say is patently untrue for this decade of the 21st century. The media will always report what people are interested in, and people are intensely interested in sports.

People are interested in helping human life and war. So what you say is patently untrue for this decade of the 21st century.

]]> By: Oldflyer http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20299 Oldflyer Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:42:31 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20299 If there is credible evidence Bonds committed a crime he should be prosecuted. If there is credible evidence he violated a baseball rule (if one existed at the time in question)he should be sanctioned by baseball. The same goes for Clemens. The emphasis in both cases is on credible evidence. My primary point was that the primary accuser of Clemens has admitted--under oath--that he previously lied repeatedly, and under oath. Petite's story should be investigated by professional and competent authorities. It appears to me that this whole exercise had the intent of turning a possible indiscretion into a crime. Not a good thing. In either case I object to Congress getting their slimy noses into areas in which they have no business, simply to get their faces in the media; and I object to anyone being tried and slimed in the media. Congress uses MLB's favored status as their excuse to muck around in these situations. Guess what? I do not think that the entertainment industry, which clearly is where all professional sports operates, should have favored status under the law. That is where I am on this. If there is credible evidence Bonds committed a crime he should be prosecuted. If there is credible evidence he violated a baseball rule (if one existed at the time in question)he should be sanctioned by baseball.

The same goes for Clemens. The emphasis in both cases is on credible evidence. My primary point was that the primary accuser of Clemens has admitted–under oath–that he previously lied repeatedly, and under oath. Petite’s story should be investigated by professional and competent authorities. It appears to me that this whole exercise had the intent of turning a possible indiscretion into a crime. Not a good thing.

In either case I object to Congress getting their slimy noses into areas in which they have no business, simply to get their faces in the media; and I object to anyone being tried and slimed in the media.

Congress uses MLB’s favored status as their excuse to muck around in these situations. Guess what? I do not think that the entertainment industry, which clearly is where all professional sports operates, should have favored status under the law.

That is where I am on this.

]]> By: Don Quixote http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20298 Don Quixote Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:19:38 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20298 Sports has replaced religion as the opiate of the masses. I can't blame the MSM for covering sports; look at the ratings for the Super Bowl. The media will always report what people are interested in, and people are intensely interested in sports. Mike is right about the "bread and circuses" though. What ever happened to the America that valued hard work and self-reliance? Oldflyer, I'm curious whether you'd make the same defense of Bonds. I didn't believe Clemens (or Bonds) anyway, but I lost all respect for Clemens when he threw his wife under the bus. Sports has replaced religion as the opiate of the masses. I can’t blame the MSM for covering sports; look at the ratings for the Super Bowl. The media will always report what people are interested in, and people are intensely interested in sports. Mike is right about the “bread and circuses” though. What ever happened to the America that valued hard work and self-reliance?

Oldflyer, I’m curious whether you’d make the same defense of Bonds. I didn’t believe Clemens (or Bonds) anyway, but I lost all respect for Clemens when he threw his wife under the bus.

]]> By: Mike Devx http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20295 Mike Devx Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:05:42 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20295 "It seems our Congress is at the mall, too. Don’t these folks have more important things to do than hold hearings on Roger Clemens and spygate?" Shepard "The Poodle" Smith does his Daily Britney. Bill O'Reilly spends time on sensational missing persons cases and trials and media celebrities. Greta Van Susteren's entire show is dedicated to exploitation. Now Congress, which is supposed to be above it all, is entering the arena of exploitation. Call it 'The Circus'. Congress, the President, and all candidates are in favor of a $150 billion payout to Americans without cutting spending. Inflationary and adding to the debt, any short term benefit will have worse long term effects. Call this 'The Bread'. Bread and Circuses. Bread and Circuses. Add to that the fact that our entire national government, on every side, has become deeply corrupt, and I have to seriously wonder: How far along the road that led to the Roman collapse are we? “It seems our Congress is at the mall, too. Don’t these folks have more important things to do than hold hearings on Roger Clemens and spygate?”

Shepard “The Poodle” Smith does his Daily Britney. Bill O’Reilly spends time on sensational missing persons cases and trials and media celebrities. Greta Van Susteren’s entire show is dedicated to exploitation. Now Congress, which is supposed to be above it all, is entering the arena of exploitation. Call it ‘The Circus’.

Congress, the President, and all candidates are in favor of a $150 billion payout to Americans without cutting spending. Inflationary and adding to the debt, any short term benefit will have worse long term effects. Call this ‘The Bread’.

Bread and Circuses. Bread and Circuses. Add to that the fact that our entire national government, on every side, has become deeply corrupt, and I have to seriously wonder: How far along the road that led to the Roman collapse are we?

]]> By: Al http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20292 Al Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:28:53 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20292 I haven't a clue why Congressional Republicans are taking Clemen's side and Democrats take the opposite. Maybe they're exercising their infrequently used trial lawyer muscles. It's a pick up game of legal football played out in front of their constituents on national TV. Certainly, Ymarsakar is right, the MSM needs to ignore the success the Iraq campaign and this soap opera is taylor made for them. Should our Federal Government get involved with poor decisions in what is essentially an entertainment industry? I am forced to say yes because, 1) the industry has not policed itself, 2) private organizations have not forced the industry to police itself, 3) the reason the industry cannot be allowed to use steroids is that if the Big Leagues do it, the Little Leagues (that is our kids) will too. Remember what happen to that poor little Russian gymnast in the Olympics decades ago? I think her name was Olga Korbit. The Russian trainers gave her steroids to enhance her performance, and they destroyed her. And yes, they all need to be censured for cheating. Al I haven’t a clue why Congressional Republicans are taking Clemen’s side and Democrats take the opposite. Maybe they’re exercising their infrequently used trial lawyer muscles. It’s a pick up game of legal football played out in front of their constituents on national TV.
Certainly, Ymarsakar is right, the MSM needs to ignore the success the Iraq campaign and this soap opera is taylor made for them.
Should our Federal Government get involved with poor decisions in what is essentially an entertainment industry? I am forced to say yes because, 1) the industry has not policed itself, 2) private organizations have not forced the industry to police itself, 3) the reason the industry cannot be allowed to use steroids is that if the Big Leagues do it, the Little Leagues (that is our kids) will too. Remember what happen to that poor little Russian gymnast in the Olympics decades ago? I think her name was Olga Korbit. The Russian trainers gave her steroids to enhance her performance, and they destroyed her.
And yes, they all need to be censured for cheating.
Al

]]> By: EOD Dan http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20290 EOD Dan Sun, 17 Feb 2008 07:04:54 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/02/16/the-politics-of-clemens/#comment-20290 Seriously, we are at war, there are millions of people who want to kill, convert or subjugate us, and we're worried about ball player’s habits?!? All things considered, a couple of 'roid abusing baseballers is not something that should be front page news. Especially considering the general lawlessness that is rampant throughout all of sports, from college ball teams on up through the NBA/NFL/MLB (you name it, pick your scandal). I've always been baffled by this country's preoccupation with people who aren't even slightly worthy of the attention lavished upon them. All while completely ignoring true heroes. For example. After nearly a decade serving this country as an Explosive Ordnance Disposal technician, one of my good friends lost his foot (and the tips of several fingers) to a landmine in Afghanistan. Instead of taking his well deserved medical retirement; he committed himself to regaining full active status and became an instructor at one of the most difficult training courses in the US military. For this, he got a couple hundred words in a tiny handful of publications. My friend is a person worthy of attention, and he is but one among thousands. Roger Clemens and all of his ilk don't rate compared with the kind of commitment and heroism displayed by servicemen and women daily all over the world. I wouldn't trade even one of my EOD brothers for a hundred ball players or movie stars, and I personally couldn't care less if Clemens or any of the others are guilty or not. That is a matter for the law and the baseball commision to sort out. I do care that the MSM and our politicians are wasting time on this petty issue when there are genuine existential concerns that they continue to ignore. Seriously, we are at war, there are millions of people who want to kill, convert or subjugate us, and we’re worried about ball player’s habits?!?
All things considered, a couple of ‘roid abusing baseballers is not something that should be front page news. Especially considering the general lawlessness that is rampant throughout all of sports, from college ball teams on up through the NBA/NFL/MLB (you name it, pick your scandal).
I’ve always been baffled by this country’s preoccupation with people who aren’t even slightly worthy of the attention lavished upon them. All while completely ignoring true heroes.
For example. After nearly a decade serving this country as an Explosive Ordnance Disposal technician, one of my good friends lost his foot (and the tips of several fingers) to a landmine in Afghanistan. Instead of taking his well deserved medical retirement; he committed himself to regaining full active status and became an instructor at one of the most difficult training courses in the US military. For this, he got a couple hundred words in a tiny handful of publications.
My friend is a person worthy of attention, and he is but one among thousands. Roger Clemens and all of his ilk don’t rate compared with the kind of commitment and heroism displayed by servicemen and women daily all over the world. I wouldn’t trade even one of my EOD brothers for a hundred ball players or movie stars, and I personally couldn’t care less if Clemens or any of the others are guilty or not. That is a matter for the law and the baseball commision to sort out. I do care that the MSM and our politicians are wasting time on this petty issue when there are genuine existential concerns that they continue to ignore.

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