Comments on: Societal breakdown in England http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/04/15/societal-breakdown-in-england/ Conservatives deal with facts and reach conclusions; liberals have conclusions and sell them as facts. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:19:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: expat http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/04/15/societal-breakdown-in-england/comment-page-1/#comment-22390 expat Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:47:20 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2768#comment-22390 I suspect there is also an element of mass communication and entertainment involved in this change. Small town kids used to compare themselves with other locals, but gradually, a richer world out there started having its effect. The shoes that were top of the line in the neighborhood store were not good enough, but the chance of getting the stuff seen everywhere on TV were slim. The definition of loser changed. The definition o normal changed. The same is true of moral values. The well-paid TV character can be a single mom and back up her decision with arguments that don't hold for the average working class. It is hard for parents to counter these arguments. I suspect there is also an element of mass communication and entertainment involved in this change. Small town kids used to compare themselves with other locals, but gradually, a richer world out there started having its effect. The shoes that were top of the line in the neighborhood store were not good enough, but the chance of getting the stuff seen everywhere on TV were slim. The definition of loser changed. The definition o normal changed.

The same is true of moral values. The well-paid TV character can be a single mom and back up her decision with arguments that don’t hold for the average working class. It is hard for parents to counter these arguments.

]]> By: Ymarsakar http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/04/15/societal-breakdown-in-england/comment-page-1/#comment-22388 Ymarsakar Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:53:25 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2768#comment-22388 There's a kind of "others owe me equality" thing that helen also brought up. She mentioned blacks and white incomes weren't inequal so somebody owes the blacks 'equality'. That's the kind of parasitism that really messes up any government and nation's ability to plan long term. There’s a kind of “others owe me equality” thing that helen also brought up. She mentioned blacks and white incomes weren’t inequal so somebody owes the blacks ‘equality’.

That’s the kind of parasitism that really messes up any government and nation’s ability to plan long term.

]]> By: Mike Devx http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/04/15/societal-breakdown-in-england/comment-page-1/#comment-22387 Mike Devx Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:40:51 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2768#comment-22387 The biggest problem with the welfare state (and the nanny state) is that any government involved in it is not simutaneously preaching the values of individual responsibility. It is similar to raising your children and providing for them in every way, AND never teaching them any moral absolutes, never teaching them that they must learn to assume individual responsibility. Such children rarely "grow up", and always struggle to take care of themselves. Dependents on the welfare state have entered the same state of dependency and never are pushed to reach for responsibility. The vast majority of them are guaranteed to end up in a bad state. It's human nature. I'm not discussing people in a temporary bad situation or emergency situation. You can fall into welfare, and you can climb back out - IF you have self-respect and a genuine desire to be independent and responsible. I'm talking about chronic welfare where an adult's entire psychological orientation becomes wedded to dependency. The biggest problem with the welfare state (and the nanny state) is that any government involved in it is not simutaneously preaching the values of individual responsibility.

It is similar to raising your children and providing for them in every way, AND never teaching them any moral absolutes, never teaching them that they must learn to assume individual responsibility. Such children rarely “grow up”, and always struggle to take care of themselves. Dependents on the welfare state have entered the same state of dependency and never are pushed to reach for responsibility. The vast majority of them are guaranteed to end up in a bad state. It’s human nature.

I’m not discussing people in a temporary bad situation or emergency situation. You can fall into welfare, and you can climb back out – IF you have self-respect and a genuine desire to be independent and responsible. I’m talking about chronic welfare where an adult’s entire psychological orientation becomes wedded to dependency.

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