After all, not many human beings can look at the poor, help them out with handouts, and then say with a straight face “the poor are just as good as us”. Not even a master of double think could claim such without a twinge in the face.

We here think about Iraq in ostensibly egalitarian views. While we recognize that Americans have many things that Iraqis do not, we also recognize that Iraqis have many things we do not. We also recognize the fact that neither Iraq’s nor America’s status was because of an inborn, genetic, or geographic trait. They were all the results of actions, the actions of men and women. And if action and merit can make an America, then it sure as heck can make an Iraq just as good as America. That is the difference helping somebody and condescending to them by treating them as your equals when you are doing everything you can to ensure that they stay your social and economic inferiors.

Interesting comment. My mother in law “loved” the poor. Volunteered for charitable committees on a regular basis, donated to charity. In retirement, she and my father in law traveled on freighters to less traveled corners of the world, coming back with tales of how wonderful the places were, and how wonderful the people were. But she wouldn’t go anywhere there were crowds. Wouldn’t stay in anything less than 5 star hotels, wouldn’t eat in places that were likely to have food service standards less than US standards. To me, it was as if she considered the people in the places she went more like zoo animals – something to look at, wonder and walk away from. Coming into really direct contact with the hoi polloi was something she found totally unacceptable.
She “loved” them – but she didn’t “like” them.

Truth does matter to me. Remember – I was the one who found it troubling that Wright was getting in the pulpit and spreading lies about the origin and spread of AIDS. I don’t recall that bothering you.

It’s interesting. In one post in the same thread, you said there was nothing wrong with Wright living in a big, expensive house because black people like nice things too.

Now you are at least admitting in the most circumspect way possible that Wright is “exactly like” these prosperity preachers in some respects, preachers who, according to the article you posted, are not very interested in any sort of “social gospel” that you are convinced Wright is preaching.

I suspect that down deep, you know that Wright is not living up to the ideas he demanded of others but you can’t admit it. But who knows? Maybe you don’t see the contradiction and are perfectly comfortable with those in power demanding one thing of others but less out of themselves.

Deana

I get it; the so-called “Prosperity Gospel” is at odds with “Liberation Theology”. And, of course, the “Prosperity Gospel” endorses the “conservative” world view, which, by extension, is all about greed, racism and taking old people’s medicine.

Yep, it’s all clear now. Obama’s problems regarding Wright has nothing to do with his judgment (or lack thereof) with being involved with an outspoken racist who dislikes America but, is part of a larger and epic battle between two differing Evangelical philosophies.

Alls that we need is a Sith lord or something pulling strings behind the scenes.

It was good for a laugh watching how the author went through mental contortions to blame all of Obama’s (and by extension Wrights) issues on conservatives and the GOP.

I love it; it’s all the GOP’s fault. Can you be a cliché anymore than that?

Helen, your knowledge of what it means to be a conservative is about as uninformed and ignorant as you claim our knowledge and understanding of blacks is; no it’s worse, at least we keep reading the links you send and try to understand your point of view even when you support it poorly.

Spiff

Of course, Jeremiah Wright is exactly like these preachers in some respects. In others, he’s quite different; Wright preaches prophetically. He gives a “social gospel” message, not a “prosperity gospel” message. In that, he is different theologically from the others (mentioned in this article).

Of course, blacks are “men, women, husbands, fathers, mothers, preachers, businessmen, lawyers, mechanics, doctors, secretaries or whatever they choose to be,” limited only by innate talent (as we all are) and systemic racism (that affects blacks only, and is, therefore, unfair). None of this has anything to do with “what [I] think being black is.” Who cares? It has to do with how black people see and define themselves.

Is Bill Cosby’s view valid? Of course, it is. Does it contain truth? Yes. But does it tell the whole story of the African American experience? I don’t think so. I’m interested in the collective opinion of blacks, of finding the sociological pattern. And what’s more I actually think you are, too. But then maybe not. Maybe you just like appearing to be in a snit every time you “speak” to me. I say, enough.

No one has all of the truth. But if we look at different points of view, we have a better chance of finding a larger piece. Does truth matter to you? Or just being conservative?

Prosperity Gospel churches – these huge megachurches that preach the idea that if you just believe enough or just give enough that God will reward you 10-fold or whatever – are shams!!! They do not preach the Bible and the central message of Jesus. But the idea that they are associated only with Republicans as this article implies is incorrect and you know it. It has affected congretions across the Christian spectrum and is something to be shunned.

What amazes me, though, is that you willingly posted an article that finds fault in preachers who, by taking money from the desperate and hopeful:

“(net themselves) millions of dollars a year: successful Word of Faith ministers own numerous homes, private jets and expensive cars. And these preachers’ followers support their imperial lifestyles wholeheartedly. Jesus said, “By their fruits you shall know them.” According to this theology, you can tell the Elect, because they’re the ones with the biggest bowl of fruit.”

And yet, you willfully refuse to acknowledge that Jeremiah Wright is exactly like these preachers. Again, HE is moving into a $1.6 million home in an almost all-white suburb after HE spent all his time demanding that his congregrants eschew “middleclassness” and support black families. And yet you refuse to acknowledge that his behavior is, at the very least, awkward and inconsistent with his stated beliefs.

I said it before, Helen, and I’ll say it again. You are unwilling to see black people as anything other than black. You refuse to see them as men, women, husbands, fathers, mothers, preachers, businessmen, lawyers, mechanics, doctors, secretaries or whatever they choose to be. You refuse to see them as free people who possess the answers to their own problems and the tools to their own success. You simply see them as black and then you chain them to what YOU think being black is.

Deana

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=D6E27ECE-9798-4F01-A378-3F1405F69704

In that line, they are what they accused Bush of doing with the boat that was going over a waterfall. “Stay the course” is the solution, suek, to the Left.

Would you guess that this is why Helen chooses not to make an effort to answer my questions? Because a achieving a solution is not the goal..but the struggle is?