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	<title>Comments on: Defending Rev. Hagee</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/</link>
	<description>She escaped from the belly of the liberal beast</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Danny Lemieux</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/#comment-24021</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Lemieux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 02:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2959#comment-24021</guid>
		<description>I guess that what these questions come down to for me is that I am not smart enough to ever figure out how God works. Other people have all kinds of theories, supported by any of a range of convictions, but as long as they are willing to express their theories through dialogue and persuasion, it's no skin off my back. 

In the end, it is what it is and perhaps I will one day be lucky in another life to get a full disclosure. Until then, everyone's welcome to their opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess that what these questions come down to for me is that I am not smart enough to ever figure out how God works. Other people have all kinds of theories, supported by any of a range of convictions, but as long as they are willing to express their theories through dialogue and persuasion, it&#8217;s no skin off my back. </p>
<p>In the end, it is what it is and perhaps I will one day be lucky in another life to get a full disclosure. Until then, everyone&#8217;s welcome to their opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Devx</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/#comment-24002</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Devx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 14:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2959#comment-24002</guid>
		<description>I guess I should add that even in my unusual belief system about God, God is quite capable of intervening when and where He wishes to, to bring about a particular desired outcome.  If the prophecies concerning the recreation of the Jewish state in the homeland are correct, there's nothing to say God would not intervene at any point to bring it about.

Alternatively, were God to review all the unfolding events across his creation, perhaps it coud be seen that in all of them, across time, a reestablishment of the Jewish state in their homeland would be seen to ALWAYS occur.  And the prophecy might reflect that, or might reflect God's promise that if necessary He will intervene to cause it to occur.

(By the way, who is to say that THIS particular establishment of a Jewish state in the homeland is the one that is reflected in the Apocalyptic vision?  This vision very well may refer to a *tenth* such Jewish state being established, and at some distant point in the far, far future.  No human can possibly know for sure, and I am certain that any arguments for or against any particular viewpoint are futile.  If the Apocalyptic vision is true, it will happen when it happens.)

Similary, my view on God does not preclude the power or importance of prayer from having an effect, be it solely by the power of prayer or as a trigger for God's direct intervention.  I simply don't know, and I'm willing to leave it at that.  (Except that the fervency of any particular prayer does not guarantee a better outcome - that does seem clear.  God doesn't grant your prayer simply because you're a better Christian nor because you prayed better.  Based on the nature of tragedies we see all around us, that much seems clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I should add that even in my unusual belief system about God, God is quite capable of intervening when and where He wishes to, to bring about a particular desired outcome.  If the prophecies concerning the recreation of the Jewish state in the homeland are correct, there&#8217;s nothing to say God would not intervene at any point to bring it about.</p>
<p>Alternatively, were God to review all the unfolding events across his creation, perhaps it coud be seen that in all of them, across time, a reestablishment of the Jewish state in their homeland would be seen to ALWAYS occur.  And the prophecy might reflect that, or might reflect God&#8217;s promise that if necessary He will intervene to cause it to occur.</p>
<p>(By the way, who is to say that THIS particular establishment of a Jewish state in the homeland is the one that is reflected in the Apocalyptic vision?  This vision very well may refer to a *tenth* such Jewish state being established, and at some distant point in the far, far future.  No human can possibly know for sure, and I am certain that any arguments for or against any particular viewpoint are futile.  If the Apocalyptic vision is true, it will happen when it happens.)</p>
<p>Similary, my view on God does not preclude the power or importance of prayer from having an effect, be it solely by the power of prayer or as a trigger for God&#8217;s direct intervention.  I simply don&#8217;t know, and I&#8217;m willing to leave it at that.  (Except that the fervency of any particular prayer does not guarantee a better outcome - that does seem clear.  God doesn&#8217;t grant your prayer simply because you&#8217;re a better Christian nor because you prayed better.  Based on the nature of tragedies we see all around us, that much seems clear.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Devx</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/#comment-23999</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Devx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 13:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2959#comment-23999</guid>
		<description>Expert theologians have wrestled with the theological questions of free will and predestination for centuries.

Is everything that happens, including Hitler and the Holocaust, a part of God's plan?  Even down to the exact millisecond that one particular Jewish child was gassed and then burned in an Auschwitz oven?

Does God simply *allow* bad things to happen, or does God *require* certain bad things to happen so that His precise plan unfolds exactly as expected?

You'll certainly get no definitive answers from me.  All I can say is, there are a lot of things that happen in my life that I could chose to control but I do not.  And our universe seems to be one where 'chaos theory' reigns, especially at the quantum level, and a certain randomization seems hardwired in.  So I personally am very comfortable with my concept of God as a being who has created a universe where probabilities collapse nondeterministically: meaning, just about ANYTHING can happen, and God wants it that way.  Therefore tragedies do occur, and we learn humility and empathy from them.  Evil can flourish, and we can fight against evil and even triumph sometimes.  Accidents are in fact accidents because in this, God's, universe, they are allowed to happen.

You could say in my view that God could have kept his hands on the steering wheel of every atom, molecule, compound, and creature, but that he deliberately took his hands off the steering wheel to ensure that life, free will, and chance, in this universe, all have purpose.

Rev. Hagee doesn't know the mind of God; he didn't land a quickie interview with God the morning he made that statement about Hitler.  I don't know the mind of God either.  But that doesn't stop us from trying, and occasionally making outrageously offensive statements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Expert theologians have wrestled with the theological questions of free will and predestination for centuries.</p>
<p>Is everything that happens, including Hitler and the Holocaust, a part of God&#8217;s plan?  Even down to the exact millisecond that one particular Jewish child was gassed and then burned in an Auschwitz oven?</p>
<p>Does God simply *allow* bad things to happen, or does God *require* certain bad things to happen so that His precise plan unfolds exactly as expected?</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll certainly get no definitive answers from me.  All I can say is, there are a lot of things that happen in my life that I could chose to control but I do not.  And our universe seems to be one where &#8216;chaos theory&#8217; reigns, especially at the quantum level, and a certain randomization seems hardwired in.  So I personally am very comfortable with my concept of God as a being who has created a universe where probabilities collapse nondeterministically: meaning, just about ANYTHING can happen, and God wants it that way.  Therefore tragedies do occur, and we learn humility and empathy from them.  Evil can flourish, and we can fight against evil and even triumph sometimes.  Accidents are in fact accidents because in this, God&#8217;s, universe, they are allowed to happen.</p>
<p>You could say in my view that God could have kept his hands on the steering wheel of every atom, molecule, compound, and creature, but that he deliberately took his hands off the steering wheel to ensure that life, free will, and chance, in this universe, all have purpose.</p>
<p>Rev. Hagee doesn&#8217;t know the mind of God; he didn&#8217;t land a quickie interview with God the morning he made that statement about Hitler.  I don&#8217;t know the mind of God either.  But that doesn&#8217;t stop us from trying, and occasionally making outrageously offensive statements.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/#comment-23977</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 15:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2959#comment-23977</guid>
		<description>It would also be inappropriate to respond to hysterical people before they are properly medicated, Danny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would also be inappropriate to respond to hysterical people before they are properly medicated, Danny.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Lemieux</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/#comment-23967</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Lemieux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 13:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2959#comment-23967</guid>
		<description>The proper response of Republicans to the NYT should be to mock them and dismiss them as not being worthy of consideration by serious people. Such as..."it would be inappropriate to respond to the NYT until all the retractions have been published".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The proper response of Republicans to the NYT should be to mock them and dismiss them as not being worthy of consideration by serious people. Such as&#8230;&#8221;it would be inappropriate to respond to the NYT until all the retractions have been published&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/#comment-23927</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 00:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2959#comment-23927</guid>
		<description>The Republicans are a political party with none of the Constitutional powers of parole, pardon, execution, or enforcement. The Republicans can't do jack except elect Republicans into the Executive, which you would have known had you stopped navel gazing at the corrupt politicians you helped bring to power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Republicans are a political party with none of the Constitutional powers of parole, pardon, execution, or enforcement. The Republicans can&#8217;t do jack except elect Republicans into the Executive, which you would have known had you stopped navel gazing at the corrupt politicians you helped bring to power.</p>
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		<title>By: dg</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/#comment-23906</link>
		<dc:creator>dg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 20:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2959#comment-23906</guid>
		<description>Well spoken, Ymarsakar.  The Republicans should not act like little slaves to the editors of the NYT, but should crush a couple of editors over there to make progress in this country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well spoken, Ymarsakar.  The Republicans should not act like little slaves to the editors of the NYT, but should crush a couple of editors over there to make progress in this country.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/#comment-23902</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 19:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2959#comment-23902</guid>
		<description>&lt;B&gt;I agree with you, jj. I just have a problem with Republicans dancing to the NYT’s tune. The NYT’s opinion should not count in their decision-making, but it does.&lt;/b&gt;

The Republicans react like good little trained slaves to the commands of the Master. Slaves do not get into the "OODA loop" of the Masters, after all, for slaves are only there to react to commands, not to give them.

The NYT decides to publish a story. The Republicans react. The NYT publishes another story. The Republicans react.

This is called going into the cycle of defeat, where the end result is not "perpetual cycles" but "perpetual defeat".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>I agree with you, jj. I just have a problem with Republicans dancing to the NYT’s tune. The NYT’s opinion should not count in their decision-making, but it does.</b></p>
<p>The Republicans react like good little trained slaves to the commands of the Master. Slaves do not get into the &#8220;OODA loop&#8221; of the Masters, after all, for slaves are only there to react to commands, not to give them.</p>
<p>The NYT decides to publish a story. The Republicans react. The NYT publishes another story. The Republicans react.</p>
<p>This is called going into the cycle of defeat, where the end result is not &#8220;perpetual cycles&#8221; but &#8220;perpetual defeat&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bookworm</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/#comment-23896</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookworm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 18:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2959#comment-23896</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, jj.  I just have a problem with Republicans dancing to the NYT's tune.  The NYT's opinion should not count in their decision-making, but it does.

It's the same thing as the Greenhouse effect on the Supreme Court.  Eventually, even the staunchest conservative judges seemed unable to resist the lure of a favorable mention in one of Linda Greenhouse's NYT court reports, even if it meant jettisoning their principles.  Interestingly, the current crop, Scalia, Roberts, Thomas and Alito, seem immune to her wiles.  Maybe it's because they have a critical mass, or maybe it's because they've realized she's a critical mess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, jj.  I just have a problem with Republicans dancing to the NYT&#8217;s tune.  The NYT&#8217;s opinion should not count in their decision-making, but it does.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the same thing as the Greenhouse effect on the Supreme Court.  Eventually, even the staunchest conservative judges seemed unable to resist the lure of a favorable mention in one of Linda Greenhouse&#8217;s NYT court reports, even if it meant jettisoning their principles.  Interestingly, the current crop, Scalia, Roberts, Thomas and Alito, seem immune to her wiles.  Maybe it&#8217;s because they have a critical mass, or maybe it&#8217;s because they&#8217;ve realized she&#8217;s a critical mess.</p>
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		<title>By: jj</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/05/23/defending-rev-hagee/#comment-23895</link>
		<dc:creator>jj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 18:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=2959#comment-23895</guid>
		<description>Yeah, but NY Times or not, McCain's perfectly free to pitch this guy under the busy if he chooses.  The guy is NOT McCain's pastor.  McCain didn't sit in his church for twenty years, or even twenty minutes - or, for that matter, twenty seconds: he's never been in his church.  He's never given him a nickel.  He didn't get married by Hagee, and Hagee's never met - let alone baptized or confirmed, or set their hair on fire or whatever it is that church does with kids - McCain's children.

Nobody cares what Hagee said: it isn't necessary for McCain to have a thing in the world to do with him, because he in fact does not.

I don't like John McCain, but I'll give him credit for being bright enough to see where the mainstream media's going to go with this, and stepping on its neck quick.  Obama's already been out there blathering about "McCain's pastor," and it just ain't so, Barry, but McCain lknew it was coming so he got on it quick.

I don't have a problem with this - unlike the problems I have with ninety percent of McCain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but NY Times or not, McCain&#8217;s perfectly free to pitch this guy under the busy if he chooses.  The guy is NOT McCain&#8217;s pastor.  McCain didn&#8217;t sit in his church for twenty years, or even twenty minutes - or, for that matter, twenty seconds: he&#8217;s never been in his church.  He&#8217;s never given him a nickel.  He didn&#8217;t get married by Hagee, and Hagee&#8217;s never met - let alone baptized or confirmed, or set their hair on fire or whatever it is that church does with kids - McCain&#8217;s children.</p>
<p>Nobody cares what Hagee said: it isn&#8217;t necessary for McCain to have a thing in the world to do with him, because he in fact does not.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like John McCain, but I&#8217;ll give him credit for being bright enough to see where the mainstream media&#8217;s going to go with this, and stepping on its neck quick.  Obama&#8217;s already been out there blathering about &#8220;McCain&#8217;s pastor,&#8221; and it just ain&#8217;t so, Barry, but McCain lknew it was coming so he got on it quick.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with this - unlike the problems I have with ninety percent of McCain.</p>
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