Comments on: Not that France ever had free speech as we understand it…. http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/ She escaped from the belly of the liberal beast Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:21:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: suek http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/#comment-24410 suek Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:24:44 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=3017#comment-24410 I was a school board member. We did such surveys annually. The goal was to help us with information that indicated that changes we effected were doing what we expected them to do, and to give parents the opportunity to raise problems we weren't as yet aware of. The administrator was then expected to bring back to us a plan to address the problems that were raised, and we'd approve her solutions, or ask for more. Sometimes the solutions were specifically teacher oriented, sometimes they addressed problems within the system. We were pretty aware of who the problem teachers were, but in California at least, it takes 2-3 years to get rid of a bad teacher, and most of that time is spent by the superintendent observing the teacher in class and recommending changes. If the changes aren't put into effect, eventually the teacher leaves - usually they see the handwriting on the wall, find the close oversight uncomfortable and look for other employment. Occasionally, someone is asked to leave, but lawsuits are such an expensive problem that it's usually preferable to make their lives miserable so that they leave of their own choice. I was a school board member. We did such surveys annually. The goal was to help us with information that indicated that changes we effected were doing what we expected them to do, and to give parents the opportunity to raise problems we weren’t as yet aware of. The administrator was then expected to bring back to us a plan to address the problems that were raised, and we’d approve her solutions, or ask for more. Sometimes the solutions were specifically teacher oriented, sometimes they addressed problems within the system. We were pretty aware of who the problem teachers were, but in California at least, it takes 2-3 years to get rid of a bad teacher, and most of that time is spent by the superintendent observing the teacher in class and recommending changes. If the changes aren’t put into effect, eventually the teacher leaves - usually they see the handwriting on the wall, find the close oversight uncomfortable and look for other employment. Occasionally, someone is asked to leave, but lawsuits are such an expensive problem that it’s usually preferable to make their lives miserable so that they leave of their own choice.

]]> By: Bookworm http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/#comment-24397 Bookworm Wed, 04 Jun 2008 03:23:09 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=3017#comment-24397 Excellent question, DQ. I know that the Board is involved in crafting some of the questions (the worst ones, incidentally, that are compound and that try to force positive, but informationally-useless answers), but I don't know if the ultimate impetus comes from the Board or from state law. Excellent question, DQ. I know that the Board is involved in crafting some of the questions (the worst ones, incidentally, that are compound and that try to force positive, but informationally-useless answers), but I don’t know if the ultimate impetus comes from the Board or from state law.

]]> By: Don Quixote http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/#comment-24396 Don Quixote Wed, 04 Jun 2008 02:23:25 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=3017#comment-24396 What was the purpose of the parent's poll? Is it something the school is required by state regulations or some school board rule to do? If so (and perhaps even if not) I'll bet the real issue is not hurting the teachers' feelings but preventing the parents from actually having any say in what goes on in the classroom. My guess is that the teachers were not in the slightest interested in constructive criticism from parents or anyone else. They don't want anyone interfering in their complete control over what they do in the classroom. Fear of hurting their feelings is just an excuse for ignoring the parents. On a side note, isn't it funny how the same people who advocate citizen's police oversight committees would be highly offended at any suggestion of a teacher oversight committee? What was the purpose of the parent’s poll? Is it something the school is required by state regulations or some school board rule to do? If so (and perhaps even if not) I’ll bet the real issue is not hurting the teachers’ feelings but preventing the parents from actually having any say in what goes on in the classroom.

My guess is that the teachers were not in the slightest interested in constructive criticism from parents or anyone else. They don’t want anyone interfering in their complete control over what they do in the classroom. Fear of hurting their feelings is just an excuse for ignoring the parents.

On a side note, isn’t it funny how the same people who advocate citizen’s police oversight committees would be highly offended at any suggestion of a teacher oversight committee?

]]> By: Ymarsakar http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/#comment-24394 Ymarsakar Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:35:04 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=3017#comment-24394 <B>Am I the only person left in the world who, although hating bad news, nevertheless feels that it can be useful?</b> Perhaps these parents did not just want to get into a confrontation or risk one with the teachers of their children. Thus it is perhaps not so much a fear that they will hurt other people's feelings, but that those teachers will make things uncomfortable for them or their children afterwards. The parents, having already a social group and system of working or talking out problems, do not seem to want to get out of this comfortable zone into new and strange territory. Am I the only person left in the world who, although hating bad news, nevertheless feels that it can be useful?

Perhaps these parents did not just want to get into a confrontation or risk one with the teachers of their children. Thus it is perhaps not so much a fear that they will hurt other people’s feelings, but that those teachers will make things uncomfortable for them or their children afterwards.

The parents, having already a social group and system of working or talking out problems, do not seem to want to get out of this comfortable zone into new and strange territory.

]]> By: Gringo http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/#comment-24389 Gringo Wed, 04 Jun 2008 00:56:25 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=3017#comment-24389 Not a very wise decision. I can see some irate parent saying to a teacher, "I made my complaint known to the powers that be, and nothing was done about it." Teacher's reply: "I never knew about such a complaint." How credible will the teacher be? Not a very wise decision. I can see some irate parent saying to a teacher, “I made my complaint known to the powers that be, and nothing was done about it.” Teacher’s reply: “I never knew about such a complaint.” How credible will the teacher be?

]]> By: Bookworm http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/#comment-24383 Bookworm Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:46:48 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=3017#comment-24383 All three, David. All three, David.

]]> By: David Foster http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/#comment-24382 David Foster Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:36:36 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=3017#comment-24382 Who were the people at the meeting who objected to giving the results to the teachers? I wasn't clear as to whether they were parents, teachers, or administrators. Who were the people at the meeting who objected to giving the results to the teachers? I wasn’t clear as to whether they were parents, teachers, or administrators.

]]> By: Ymarsakar http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/#comment-24380 Ymarsakar Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:50:30 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=3017#comment-24380 People worry about their feelings only because the US military protects them from having to worry about their heads and limbs being removed. People worry about their feelings only because the US military protects them from having to worry about their heads and limbs being removed.

]]> By: LarryFaren http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/#comment-24377 LarryFaren Tue, 03 Jun 2008 18:57:38 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=3017#comment-24377 "...might hurt their feelings." Yup. That one charge/concern/mantra is the basis behind a helluva lot of liberal drivel the past 20-30 years -- and it just gets worse BY THE DAY. “…might hurt their feelings.”
Yup. That one charge/concern/mantra is the basis behind a helluva lot of liberal drivel the past 20-30 years — and it just gets worse BY THE DAY.

]]> By: heather http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/06/03/not-that-france-ever-had-free-speech-as-we-understand-it/#comment-24374 heather Tue, 03 Jun 2008 17:33:16 +0000 http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=3017#comment-24374 Strange. If teachers can handle all that the students dish out, then they can certainly take the results of that poll. Strange. If teachers can handle all that the students dish out, then they can certainly take the results of that poll.

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