http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/06/18/Court_overrules_fathers_grounding_of_girl/UPI-86741213793845/

Except you need to remember that Book lives in a state where the state legislature just recently (fortunately) voted down a law which would make such punishment by parents illegal. The law may have not passed, but the mindset of the populace is such that passing was definitely a possibility. Idiotic, but true.

It brings to mind one of the basic differences between Liberals and Conservatives: Libs think that all mankind is basically good, and problems with unsocial behavior is due to genetics or upbringing. If they can just eliminate genetic defects and perfect socialization, we will have a society of perfect people, loving and kind in all things. Punishment for wrongdoing is unjust because they have already been punished by either having genetic defects or by having a defective upbringing. Conservatives believe that all humans are born with a basic defect of character that needs to be reformed and reshaped during childhood, and punished as necessary in adults. They believe that society has a right to punish wrongdoers and protect itself from them.

The best benevolent dictatorships were always rewarders of merit and achievement.

I dunno. I was brought up in a traditional Asian family, with the traditional belt and cane. Didn’t get whacked too often, but remember very well the times my ass got welted.

Corporal punishment, as long as it’s ritualised and well-regimented, works great.

Of course, looking at the dysfunction in the USA, your methods probably are the least bad of all bad options. Carry on, I say. Whatever works.*

* Of course, you can consider that certain activities come with living in the house. Sorta like taxes.

http://shrinkwrapped.blogs.com/blog/2008/06/liberalism-and.html

The last century showed, in rather unmistakable terms, that capitalism is the much superior system in terms of generating wealth, but under capitalism, unfairness is impossible to avoid.

Since we spend a great deal of time and energy trying to ensure that life is fair, a truly noble imperative, capitalism is counter-intuitive. It requires unlearning much of what we learn in our earliest years and gaining a much deeper and more nuanced view of the economy and fairness. In the end, those of us who evolve in our economic/political thinking recognize that capitalism is ultimately more moral and more fair to the greatest number of people. Unfortunately, far too many Americans are economically illiterate and well into adulthood operate as if the world should be designed the way a typical kindergarten works, where adult authorities make sure everyone plays nice and that all the toys are equally shared.

No socialist, communist, or utopianist can ever remove the need for central authority from a government, any government.

This is perfectly consistent, since the only way socialism and communism works is with a central authoritarian figure. The parent, the government, the secret police, the ideological police, etc.

And it is still quite true, Book, that far too many Americans would prefer to have a totalitarian dictator run things than trying to make a small business work themselves.

Look at Bush junior when he went to college away from his Presidential daddy.

Now a days, however, we are missing discipline and hard core punishments. So the newest generation are not only spoiled but they lack any sense of fear of punishment as well. They have no sense of what “order” is, not even totalitarian order.

You need to study behavioral controls and Pavlovian conditioning.

When human beings are conditioned to do work well and in a productive manner, it becomes a habit that they will continue to do even without the material rewards. The satisfaction of work done well and work done by your own hands is self-satisfying and thus once someone is in the habit of performing such things, it will become a self-reinforcing loop.

And if the kids want money, they’ll go and work for it.

The authoritarian and hence communist training of human beings only work when the stick is present. When young adults go out to college and no longer have to fear parental disapproval or the big sticks of the parents, they go hog wild on binge drinking and what not. If fear is the only thing that ever kept a person behaving well, then when you remove that fear, that person will no longer have any disincentives to behave well and he will have plenty of incentive (new experiences and rebelling against authority) to misbehave.

Communism, as Book noted, only works because of the big stick of authoritarian command and fear. In politics, that means the secret police and a dictator that has the powers of jury, executioner, and appeal.

I always suspect that the Baby Boomers were spoiled by their parents, probably because while the parents had paid in blood for liberty and life, the children had not. Thus the parents spoiled the children because the parents wanted for their children never to experience what the parents experienced in WWII. What this also meant is that the Baby Boomer generation never got that self-reinforcing sense of wellness and satisfaction that came from doing good works and having a purpose in life. Vietnam didn’t help either.

Or what? That’s a very responsible adult view - I certainly don’t disagree with it. The problem is that children are _not_ responsible adults. How do we get them to become that? Her children have already - in one day - learned that they can do the work, and that it’s pleasant to get it done in minimal time and without the bickering and fighting. They say it takes 3 weeks to form a habit. So…a month from now, Book and up the ante, and begin to expect certain tasks to be free, and _other_ tasks to be paid for. Gradually, they will enforce it on each other - they’ll like how things are and complain if the other hasn’t kept up on chores… but you have to get them started somehow!
What method did _you_ use with your children?