Ozzie you’re spouting a lot of stuff that you really don’t know much about.. . . Do you even know what dispensationalism is? – Brian

Another article you might find interesting:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/apr/20/usa.uselections2004

Much has been written about mixing “prophecy and politics”

Exhibit A:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0707/p15s01-lire.html

Ozzie you’re spouting a lot of stuff that you really don’t know much about.- Brian

Fundamentlists are more excited by Sarah Palin than they have been with any candidate in recent history.

And it goes beyond Roe V Wade.

2004-2006 were very busy years for Christian Right activists who’d love to cut out the Supreme Court and topple the wall between Church and State.

I dont want to live in an offocial “Christian Nation.”

With McCain, I was relieved that the ‘Fundy years’ were over. Sily me!.

“You really should stay away from making characterizations about the beliefs of people you don’t know and whose opinions of them were formed by people who might not be neutral.” — Brian

Nobody is nuetral when it comes to religion. And yes, my beliefs stem from reading and reading and reading, as opposed to attending servies where people beleive in the Rapture because, in all honesty, I could not sit and listen to such stuff.. It makes NO SENSE to me.

I lump it with the “72 virgins” dogma and believe that, while people should believe whatever it is they like, religious beliefs and government do not — and should not — mix.

If Muslims, on the other hand, got so far as to introduce legislation calling for the U.S to become a Muslim nation and a U.S policitian could not get elected without being vetted and endorsed by Muslims, I’d be freaking out even more.

I dont want Catholics (who tend to be more abstract vs concrete-minded, and are therefore less frightening to me) to have such clout, either, and think the U.S public was right to have concerns about J.F.K’ – just as he was right to assure them that his faith would not be a factor

If Sarah Palin said something similar, the Religious Right would NOT be happy and the McCain/Palin ticket would be D.O.A.

Then too, Thomas Jefferson referred to the Book of Revelation (which I also never studied in the Catholic Church) as “the ravings of a madman,” while hardcore Christian conservatives are eagerly awaiting for the events described to come true.

You don’t have to quote Jefferson. Dagon believes the same thing.

“Now Ozzie, that may be the least informed opinion I’ve heard from you. Most Evangelical Christians won’t vote for a candidate that supports abortion on demand.” — Brian

It goes well beyond Roe vs Wade, Brian. There are activists, including James Dobson, who are actively seeking to undercut the Supreme Court and turn America into a “Chrtistian Nation.”

What does this have to do with your original statement of this:
Once again: The GOP needs the Relgious Right to win and the Relglious Right won’t vote for anyone who doesnt agree with their End Times/ Rapture Ready views.

Ozzie you’re spouting a lot of stuff that you really don’t know much about.

Those who believe in dispensationalism and believe that we are currently facing the end times.

Do you even know what dispensationalism is?

You really should stay away from making characterizations about the beliefs of people you don’t know and whose opinions of them were formed by people who might not be neutral.

Based on what?

(and if you say Mel Gibson, his brand of Catholicism isnt exactly main stream)

Priests would read from the Gospels in church, but during my 13 years of Catholic catechism, (up until the time I was confirmed and didint attend Sunday School anymore) I never oncer heard of the Rapture.

I went to a Catholic college, too and once again, no mention of the Rapture.

Personally, i’m more interested in the lost Gospels of Peter, Mary, Thomas, Phillip, Judas, etc and why the Roman Catholic Church left them out than I am in other parts of the Bible. Who was the real Jesus and what was he trying to say? And why were some Gospels deliberately left out?

Then too, Thomas Jefferson referred to the Book of Revelation (which I also never studied in the Catholic Church) as “the ravings of a madman,” while hardcore Christian conservatives are eagerly awaiting for the events described to come true.

“Now Ozzie, that may be the least informed opinion I’ve heard from you. Most Evangelical Christians won’t vote for a candidate that supports abortion on demand.” — Brian

It goes well beyond Roe vs Wade, Brian. There are activists, including James Dobson, who are actively seeking to undercut the Supreme Court and turn America into a “Chrtistian Nation.”

I posted information on this on another thread, but if you want to see what I’m referring to, I’d be happy to do it again.

“I’m not sure what you or dg even mean by “end timers”. There have at times been groups that thought they discerned the actual rapture event, but those folks have always been disappointed.” — Brian

Those who believe in dispensationalism and believe that we are currently facing the end times. One such group, the Apostolic Congress, met with the Bush White House to make sure that the Middle East policy was alligned with End Times theology.

One such example, from 2004:

The Jesus Landing Pad
Bush White House checked with rapture Christians before latest Israel move
Rick Perlstein

It was an e-mail we weren’t meant to see. Not for our eyes were the notes that showed White House staffers taking two-hour meetings with Christian fundamentalists, where they passed off bogus social science on gay marriage as if it were holy writ and issued fiery warnings that “the Presidents [sic] Administration and current Government is engaged in cultural, economical, and social struggle on every level”—this to a group whose representative in Israel believed herself to have been attacked by witchcraft unleashed by proximity to a volume of Harry Potter. Most of all, apparently, we’re not supposed to know the National Security Council’s top Middle East aide consults with apocalyptic Christians eager to ensure American policy on Israel conforms with their sectarian doomsday scenarios.

But now we know.

http://www.villagevoice.com/2004-05-11/news/the-jesus-landing-pad/1

People who take the Bible literally have long felt that Catholics were wrong to read it metaphorically.

They can think what they like.

I’m not Catholic, but I think a lot of catholics take the Bible literally.

Once again: The GOP needs the Relgious Right to win and the Relglious Right won’t vote for anyone who doesnt agree with their End Times/ Rapture Ready views.

Now Ozzie, that may be the least informed opinion I’ve heard from you. Most Evangelical Christians won’t vote for a candidate that supports abortion on demand.

I’m not sure what you or dg even mean by “end timers”. There have at times been groups that thought they discerned the actual rapture event, but those folks have always been disappointed.
The New Testament has an admonition against doing that, in fact. Christians have looked for the return of Christ since the first century, but that hardly means they were trying to affect political events to hurry it along.
If there is a marker, it is that the gospel has been spread to the four corners of the earth, and the state of Israel has been established.

I had heard that neo-conservatives in the Bush administration had as a ME strategy the idea that by removing Saddam, forcing a regime change in Iran and Syria, which would de-fund Hamas and Hezbollah, we could stabilize and promote a two-state solution.

I think the strategy was to establish peace in the ME, by eliminating the funding for terror groups whose goal is to exterminate the state of Israel which, by the way is exactly opposite of the ‘end time’ scenario.

People who take the Bible literally have long felt that Catholics were wrong to read it metaphorically.

They can think what they like.

To me, the Rapture is as real as “72 virgins.” I dont think it is going to happen. Others are counting on it.

But the people who are pushing Relgious Right agenda believe that even the Book of Revelation is the Word of God and that we’re in the End Times and the president should consider Biblical prophecy when setting foreign policy.

The Bush White House catered to this crowd.

I find it alarming. Others find it comforting.

“It certainly isn’t a requirement to be President.”- Brian

Once again:. The GOP needs the Relgious Right to win and the Relglious Right won’t vote for anyone who doesnt agree with their End Times/ Rapture Ready views.

The GOP has become the political arm of Christian Conservatives.

Jesus made the claim to be God.
In Matthew 16:
When Jesus asked his disciples who do people say he was, and then asked his disciples, “Who do you say I am?” Peter replied, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “You are blessed, Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you…”
Jesus told of his death and resurrection
Again in Matthew 16 it says “From then on Jesus began to tell his disciples plainly that he had to go to Jerusalem, and he told them what would happen to him there…He would be killed, and he would be raised on the third day.”

It certainly isn’t a requirement to be President.

I was raised Catholic and never heard of the Rapture until I was an adult.

I even went to a Catholic College, where the Jesuits spoke to philosophical and moral concerns and were not prone to taking the Bible literally.

If people want to take the Bible literally, that’s their perogative.

I dont think that shoudl be a prerequisite for becoming President, however.