The antidote to conservative malaise
Bookworm on Oct 11 2008 at 7:50 am | Filed under: Presidential elections
I’m getting emails from committed conservatives who are unhappy right now, feeling that the air has gone out of the election balloon. I’m looking at things a different way.
The ACORN registration fraud has inflated the numbers of registered Democrats. Given that some people registered as Dems 72 times, there is no way that ACORN can get 72 fraudulent voters to the booths. And that’s just one person. This means that the huge threat they hold over us — that is, the threat of swollen Dem voter rolls — actually isn’t as big a threat as we thought, and that’s true despite inevitable fraud at the voting booth.
One of the volunteer “get out the voters” in Marin sent out an email with an interesting heading: “John McCain and Sarah Palin will win California . . . if every McCain/Palin supporter actually votes.” I wrote to her to ask if that was really true,or just blind optimism. Here’s what she wrote back (just yesterday):
It’s optimistic today (the numbers have changed again!) — but yesterday it was fact-based. Or google “forbes zogby poll obama”.
I was, I think, a little creative in saying that we will win California if… BUT I believe that it’s true. There are so many Obama supporters in Marin and other Democratic strongholds that, by and large, I believe that because they feel less threatened they therefore feel less urgency to vote. Such a small number of people actually vote, you know.
I am absolutely certain that if every Republican who moans about the possibility of an Obama presidency actually votes AND gets other McCain supporters to cast their votes, we would take this state. It’s not about who loves you, baby, it’s about who’s actually going to make the time to vote for you.
This gal is right. If Dems are not going to get out as many voters as they’ve pretended they have, and if we can get out all the voters we really have, we can make a difference.
Also, just as they’re trying to depress our vote with all this “landslide” talk, they may also depress their own. After all, for busy, scattered, chaotic people (and there are those on both sides of the political aisle), voting can be a pain. If you’re sure that you’re candidate is going to win by a landslide regardless, isn’t that an invitation for you to stay home. After all, how much can your vote matter? We, on the other hand, know our votes matter, and we’re going to get out there and do something.
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Thank you, Book! We all need a pick-me-up every now and then.
The vote should used to select your preference among the choice of candidates; I wouldn’t use it for anything else.
Remember, not-voting cannot be distinguished from apathy. If you feel any sentiment towards a “throw all the bums out!”, then you really must get out there and vote, because the powers-that-be LOVE voter apathy.
Using the vote to, say, send your Republicans into a wilderness exile to reform themselves, is in my mind a crude, misapplied use of the vote. (I understand the sentiment, since I am furious that, in my opinion, conservative principles have been so widely betrayed.)
I intend to become much more involved on November 5th, in all of my relevant races, to help search out and support candidates that are truly conservative, have a deep, abiding love and faith in conservative principles of government. I’ll be asking what their winning coalition is going to look like. I’ll want to ensure that they will never vote against their principles – NEVER!
It’s clear now that the bailout bill did not have to be passed in such a rush. What a terrible, terrible thoroughly non-conservative mistake that was. No conservative should have voted for those measures without exacting deep conservative compromises. Let the liberals pass the damn socialist omnibus! They had the votes for their manna. Betrayal! Sackcloths and self-flagellation, crying out for forgiveness in public, is in order. There’s no true reform in that bill; there’s no reform to be seen anywhere. I’ll be looking for conservatives to fight the real fight. No matter what happens on Nov. 5th, I’ve been betrayed, and I’ve had it.
It’s clear now that the bailout bill did not have to be passed in such a rush. What a terrible, terrible thoroughly non-conservative mistake that was- Mike
Some members of Congress were threatened, saying that the U.S would be under martial law if they didnt act.
All this overlooks the bigger picture, that the U.S is headed for serious trouble, which is going to get much worse, regardless which candidate wins.
David Walker, Oct. 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4yB4nlk_Zw&feature=related
And in May, 2008
When America needs leadership, it gets pandering
By David M. Walker
“. . . When I started work as comptroller general of the United States in 1998, we were on the path to budget surpluses. Fast forward 10 years, and we have learned first-hand how deficits can explode when budget controls are not in place. After the statutory controls expired in 2002, federal spending accelerated, entitlement programs expanded, and tax cuts became the cry of the day.
The result: America is now in a $53 trillion fiscal hole that gets deeper each year for lack of action. Furthermore, our nation’s financial health, which has weakened considerably in recent years, is about to get much worse.
Earlier this year, our own U.S. Treasury Department declared that the federal government is on an unsustainable fiscal path. Judging from their recent statements on the campaign trail, our presidential candidates haven’t studied the nation’s latest financial report or fiscal projections.
Sen. John McCain has proposed to extend the Bush tax cuts. Unfortunately, he has not yet provided a credible plan to pay for these actions.
At the same time, Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton are pledging to expand health care coverage, and to pay for it by declining to extend certain Bush tax cuts. The truth is, the cost of achieving universal health coverage will far exceed the revenue obtained in this manner.
Recent proposals to address rising energy and food prices by all three candidates focus on short-term symptoms rather than long-term cures. The related plans by Sens. McCain and Obama would only make our exploding deficit worse. Sen. Clinton has proposed to pay for her plan through a “windfall profits tax” on energy companies.
These and other proposals serve to reinforce America’s myopia and poor global ranking in math proficiency. These deficiencies can have catastrophic consequences over time when our nation’s leaders can’t or won’t calculate the impact of their proposals on our nation’s bottom line!. . .
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20080518/OPINION03/589056734/-1/OPINION
I’ve been dead set on the bailout having been the wrong thing to do, and the idea of buying into banks as being absolutely socialistic. Last night, however, Steve Forbes said it was the right and necessary thing. The problem is that I recognize that I do _not_ have the qualifications to predict the action we should be taking, and have to find sources that I think _do_ have those qualifications and follow their guidelines.
Steve Forbes falls into that category, by the way. And also by the way, his description was that the economy was in fact strong, but that credit was the problem. He likened it to someone with a strong heart, but completely clogged blood vessels. The heart wants to work, but the clogged blood vessels won’t allow it.
Oz, I haven’t read your article yet, but I will. I do find this statement to quibble with:”Sen. John McCain has proposed to extend the Bush tax cuts. Unfortunately, he has not yet provided a credible plan to pay for these actions.” I disagree because I think McCain’s plan is to cut spending, and your author (at least in this clip) doesn’t recognize that part of his plan. Nevertheless, your guy is absolutely right about this part: “These and other proposals serve to reinforce America’s myopia and poor global ranking in math proficiency.”
I sometimes wonder if the politicians have a severe math problem themselves, or just thing we’re all idiots.
“At the same time, Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton are pledging to expand health care coverage, and to pay for it by declining to extend certain Bush tax cuts.
….it’s the subject of the critically acclaimed documentary, I.O.U.S.A., scheduled for commercial release this summer in time for the general election campaign.”
These two comments make me think that his article was written sometime in the spring of this year, although the publishing date on the article is today.
Has anyone any idea if the documentary was in fact released??
Oz, I haven’t read your article yet, but I will. I do find this statement to quibble with:”Sen. John McCain has proposed to extend the Bush tax cuts. Unfortunately, he has not yet provided a credible plan to pay for these actions- suek
Walker wrote that op-ed in May, suek, but he’s been screaming about this for quite some time.
He was on Bill Maher’s show last night and said, once again, that both political candidates will make matters worse.
I liken this election to watching two kids in the ocean, arguing whether the red surfboard or the blue surfboard is better, while remaining totally oblivious to the tsunami headed their way.
Here’s a YouTube of David Walker, with Bill Maher, Oct. 10, 2008
“How to Fix the Problem: First, we need to reestablish budget controls that expired in 2002.”
Has anyone any idea if the documentary was in fact released?? – suek
It was released in selected cities in August.
Here’s the trailer:
My concern is this:
I believe that Obama is going to win. But if he doesn’t, the discussion for the next four years won’t be about how ACORN-like groups falsely inflated the registration rolls, or that perhaps not all who said they were going to vote for Obama did, or that perhaps at the very end, when people were standing in the voting booth, they decided to vote for a president who has faults but has a lifetime of experience and not a lifetime of questionable friends and interests.
It will be about how the fact that McCain won is “proof” that Republicans stole the election.
I’m not sure I have the stomach for it.
Deana
Also observe that if (*) ACORN is artificially inflating the Democrat registrations successfully, that will also artificially inflate the relative registrations used to weight the polls. Now, note that it’s been “registered votes” polls that show Obama way ahead, while likely voter polls are still a lot narrower (viz the Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby poll linked above.)
Unfortunately, I’m afraid that Deana may be right: if McCain does win, I’m afraid there might well be violence in the streets.
(*) If, here, only to preserve the form of the inference; I’m not actually suggesting I think there’s any doubt.
Unfortunately, I’m afraid that Deana may be right: if McCain does win, I’m afraid there might well be violence in the streets- Charle
And, judging by the behavior and comments at recent McCAin/Palin rallies, if Obama wins, there could be even more violence.
My prediction: If the dollar collapses, by Feb, 2009 Americans are not going to know what hit them regardless who is president.
If McCain DOESN’T win, then we may just have to forget about ever winning a majority again. The Democrat-Socialist-Fascist elements in power will a) fraudulently manipulate the elections (this is hardly new – it goes back to Al Gore’s speed-citizenship filings of compliant voters in key battleground states during the Clinton Administration and this will be done by a Chicago crew that really knows what it is doing); domination and control of a compliant Supreme Court and judiciary (Republican prosecutors and attorneys will be let go right away); control of the airwaves (they already have the MSM TV and newspaper press); the political/judicial persecution of people deemed electoral threats with false charges (think back to Casper Weinberger and Edwin Meese) and union thuggery.
This will be a hard-left government for the foreseeable future…maybe even for the rest of my lifetime…in which the totalitarian principles of Saul Alinsky and William Ayers will hold sway. My guess is that people will be so focused on just trying to survive that they will never be able to organize a resistance.
This will be a hard-left government for the foreseeable future…maybe even for the rest of my lifetime…in which the totalitarian principles of Saul Alinsky and William Ayers will hold sway. – Dl
Will Obama’s Wall Street backers stand for such a thing? (by Aug., 2008, he received $10 million vs John McCain’s $6 million in Wall Street donations).
Maybe it wil be just like FDR Vs Prescoctt Bush and assorted businessmen were behind an alleged failed plot to overthrow FDR and install a fascist government in America
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml
You theory might be true, if not for the fact that the U.S is going broke and is busy providing socialism for the rich and can’t quite afford socialism for the poor.
Make sure you’re operating on good information, Ozzie: an awful lot of these stories about enraged crowds calling for Obama’s head turn out to be based on one unnamed shouter.
And, judging by the behavior and comments at recent McCAin/Palin rallies, if Obama wins, there could be even more violence.
You are the perfect example of the target propagandists use as the ideal when creating operations specifically designed to target masses of humans.
Make sure you’re operating on good information, Ozzie: an awful lot of these stories about enraged crowds calling for Obama’s head turn out to be based on one unnamed shouter.- Charlie
I’m not so sure abut that, Charlie.
For your Consideration:
McCain/Palin Run time: 04:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E
Behtlehem, PA, Run time: 05:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us
McCain’s Base is Mad
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/10/09/madder-than-hell.aspx
You are the perfect example of the target propagandists use as the ideal when creating operations specifically designed to target masses of humans- Ymar
I’d say these people are, Ymar:
Behtlehem, PA, Run time: 05:10
if not for the fact that the U.S is going broke and is busy providing socialism for the rich and can’t quite afford socialism for the poor.
Socialism was designed by the rich, for the rich. If you had studied European history and researched, actually researched not just consumed somebody’s propaganda line hook line and sinker, you would have realized this by now. Patronage is for the rich’s benefit, not the artisan’s.
Make sure you’re operating on good information, Ozzie: an awful lot of these stories about enraged crowds calling for Obama’s head turn out to be based on one unnamed shouter- Charlie
There are multiple videos available, Charlie, which were available before the mainstream media picked up on this.
I tried to post too many at once, and I think, my post got swallowed as spam.
Here’s one of them:
McCain/Palin Run time: 04:25
I’d say these people are, Ymar:
Do all nihilists defend themselves like Democrats do, by picking on somebody else that can’t defend themselves?
“Palin voted to have women pay for their own rape kits. My friends shouldn’t have to pay for their own rape kits. How would you feel about that?”
I feel that Democrats like you, Oz, should stop telling lies, repeating lies, and supporting character assassinations of individuals who you fear and hate.
I also feel that any person video taping this, who would subtitle one portion of it, and not realize that he is spreading an untruth, is the perfect example of the results of propaganda apparatuses designed to delude people like you, Oz, into spreading the truth about your own inability to tell reality from fantasy.
Ozzie -
You just touched on something that has been in the back of my mind for a little while.
First, I do disagree with you that if McCain loses, there would be MORE violence than if Obama loses. In the last 50 years, when have masses of conservatives resorted to violence to protest something?
But there are numerous examples of liberal and left-leaning groups who have resulted to violence while protesting something. We’ve already had several commentators assert that if Obama loses, we would see mass rioting. Again, you are engaging in partisanship, which you claim to despise.
That being said, I do worry that if Obama wins, he could be assassinated. It will matter not that throughout our history, there have been multiple attempts to assassinate presidents, all of whom were white. In an Obama assassination scenario, it would not just be a crime and a tragedy for the Obama family and the country, it would be a nation-wide nightmare. It is not difficult to imagine horrible, massive street rioting and other activities in which innocents would be harmed.
I’m not suggesting that we should not elect Obama out of fear that he will be assassinated. That would the very definition of ridiculousness. But I do worry about this possibility. There are crazy people in the world who would not think twice about committing evil.
I also have been concerned with some of the “off with his head” yelling that went on at a recent McCain/Palin rally. I don’ t like Obama. I think he is a socialist, a liar, an opportunist, and dangerous for this country but I don’t like this whole “off with his head” business. It’s ugly.
I just wish that all of those concerned about this had demonstrated equal concern when so many called for and joked about assassinating President Bush over the past 8 years.
I don’t recall anyone on the left uttering a word of protest about that . . .
Deana
Btw, any ad and video from http://keystoneprogress.org/page/content/ksp-home/
is seen by me in the same light as claims by Jihadists for the Jihad for Killing Women and Children that US Marines slaughtered civilians in Fallujah and Haditha.
They have about as much credibility with me as that. Why? Because propaganda knows no bounds, national nor political nor ideological nor religious.
I know very well how people create lies, whether in print, photographs, or videos, and then try to pass them off as if they were the truth. Grassroots truth at that.
I’m not suggesting that we should not elect Obama out of fear that he will be assassinated.
There are plenty of blacks I know that assume Obama will be assassinated and they are going to vote Obama.
Socialism was designed by the rich, for the rich- Ymar
Both poltical parties were bought and paid for a long time ago, with Obama taking more money from Wall Street than John McCain.
It seems that people here believe that if McCain/Palin win, all will be well, and if Obama wins, we’ll be on the road to Socialism, Communism, Fascism and all other forms of isms.
In the 1930s, FDR’s New Deal was derided as American businessmen planned to overthrow him and form a fascist government in America. Today, business will always be the prioroty, regardless what the people are promised.
And, judging by the behavior and comments at recent McCAin/Palin rallies, if Obama wins, there could be even more violence.
Have you ever actually seen a mob? Have you seen your body language, have your seen their facial expressions? Do you actually know that the people at the McCain/palin rallies were in a line, moving somewhere, and replying to other people instead of shouting them down in anger or are you just pretending not to know the difference between a mob incited to violence and people airing their opinions because Democrat operators had primed them for it?
Both poltical parties were bought and paid for a long time ago, with Obama taking more money from Wall Street than John McCain.
Socialism has nothing to do with the political parties formed by America’s Founding Fathers, Oz.
Try aristocracy.
It seems that people here believe that if McCain/Palin win, all will be well, and if Obama wins, we’ll be on the road to Socialism, Communism, Fascism and all other forms of isms.
We all know what you believe, Oz, which is that just like people say that the US needs to be sabotaged because while there are other evil people in the world, the US has the most powerful and so the harm we do is disproportionate to Saddam or AQ combined.
You want to hit the Republican party because you believe their influence acts as a force multiplier for problems you see as originating from the Republican party. You admit that Democrats do some of the same things, but you don’t see Democrats as a threat.
Those people that use that line of argument for the US are anti-Americans. You are not bipartisan just because you admit that there are other evils than the Republican party. The argument that you use to indict the Republican party is the same argument people use to excuse their support of Saddam and their sabotage of American national security.
In the last 50 years, when have masses of conservatives resorted to violence to protest something?- Deanna
There are a lot of angry people out there today, Deanna.
Here’s another example:
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/10/09/madder-than-hell.aspx
Maybe they wont protest. Maybe, as you said, assassination is a frightening possibility.
Someone yesterday suggested that the last time words like “Traitor!” were used to describe a major political figure was on Nov. 22, 1963, when the Dallas Morning News ran a front page headline accusing JFK of treason.
A guy was arrested yesterday when he took a gun to a voter registration office because he was eager to register to keep that n*gger out of office”
And the hateful rhetoric hate radio was said to be a contributing factor in the recent shooting at the Unitarian church.
Today’s political climate is as ugly as I’ve seen it , with some saying it’s like the 1960s and the 1930s. If we enter into a depresssion, more and more people will be looking for a scapegoat.
“I just wish that all of those concerned about this had demonstrated equal concern when so many called for and joked about assassinating President Bush over the past 8 years. ” – Deanna
I can’t STAND George W. Bush and think that the past 8 years have been disastrous for this country. But, I’m like you. I cringe when I hear hateful, violent rhetoric.
>>There are plenty of blacks I know that assume Obama will be assassinated and they are going to vote Obama.>>
Why would they do that? Are they willing to sacrifice him so that they can start a rebellion with justification? I don’t think I understand…
>>In the 1930s, FDR’s New Deal was derided as American businessmen planned to overthrow him and form a fascist government in America. Today, business will always be the prioroty, regardless what the people are promised.>>
Actually, FDR was a bit of a facist, and what you say may be possible – facism was not considered a really bad thing until Hitler gave it a bad name.
We all know what you believe, Oz, which is that just like people say that the US needs to be sabotaged because while there are other evil people in the world, the US has the most powerful and so the harm we do is disproportionate to Saddam or AQ combined. – Ymar
No, Ymar.. I think it’s been sabatoged and we’re in trouble. Like David Walker, I believe that the federal government is a far cry from what the founders intended.
It’s clear that you dont understand me or where I’m coming from, but you insist on making declarations regarding me and my intentions.
No, Ymar.. I think it’s been sabatoged and we’re in trouble.
You believe yourself the appointed savior of the Republican party and thus America? You support Obama because he is the One and you believe yourself to also be part of that salvation?
Why would they do that? Are they willing to sacrifice him so that they can start a rebellion with justification?
They were going to vote for him anyways, but they are embittered and enslaved by Democrat propaganda to the extent that they will grasp at straws even though they believe, at the same time, the Whiteys will do everything they can to prevent him from becoming President: including assassination. Like Abraham Lincoln, you could say. Except Lincoln was a Republican, which is not mentioned or even known amongst some of the black people I know.
Actually, FDR was a bit of a facist, and what you say may be possible – facism was not considered a really bad thing until Hitler gave it a bad name- suek
During the same period, American business men were supporting Hitler and plotting to model his policies.
From the link I previously provided:
“Document uncovers details of a planned coup in the USA in 1933 by right-wing American businessmen. The coup was aimed at toppling President Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell Hse & George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression.”
You believe yourself the appointed savior of the Republican party and thus America? You support Obama because he is the One and you believe yourself to also be part of that salvation?- Ymar
When did I ever say I suport Obama becasue he’s “the One”? I find Obama worship to be disturbing.
No, I said that the Palin pick made me decide to vote against John McCain.
It’s clear that you dont understand me or where I’m coming from, but you insist on making declarations regarding me and my intentions.
I make declarations about the consequences of your actions and I make clear categorizations on the epistemology of your beliefs.
You don’t understand where Sarah Palin is coming from. You didn’t understand where Obama or McCain came from. You didn’t dislike McCain enough to vote for Obama until Sarah Palin came along. You don’t understand where people who believe in God comes from. You don’t understand where Democrat propagandists come from. You don’t understand where operations like ACORN comes from or what their goals are.
What is there more to understand about you, Oz? What more is there to understand: that you have beliefs you hold that are made on a lack of knowledge combined with incorrect data?
When did I ever say I suport Obama becasue he’s “the One”? I find Obama worship to be disturbing.
Did you not notice the question mark after my sentence? Do question marks mean the same to you as other punctuation marks?
And when did you say you supported Obama instead of McCain? Well, after Sarah Palin came on the scene as I recall.
It’s clear that you dont understand me or where I’m coming from,
How much more clear do I need to be in addition to putting a question mark on a question, Oz? How much more do you need before you actually start understanding me and where I’m coming from?
“Document uncovers details of a planned coup in the USA in 1933 by right-wing American businessmen. The coup was aimed at toppling President Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell Hse & George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression.”
That is almost beyond partisanship; it starts going into the anti-American foreign enemy camp.
Republicans specifically did not attack FDR’s personal life or challenge his authority because of the war, because the Republicans wanted the nation unified against a common external enemy rather than play with politics at the cost of America’s servicemembers.
Now you, a beneficiary of the Republican political sacrifices for patriotism, comes back and starts character assassinating the businesses that worked tirelessly to aid America’s efforts in WWII?
Who do you think you are, Oz? A nihilist?
You believe yourself the appointed savior of the Republican party and thus America? You support Obama because he is the One and you believe yourself to also be part of that salvation?
If you believe that I claimed and stated that you supported Obama because he is the One, and that is why you abjected to it, why then did you not object to my ‘claim’ that you are the appointed savior of the Republican party and thus America? If the latter is false, wouldn’t the former be false as well? Unless you believe it was true, of course.
I call that affirmation bias on your part. You object to what you believe challenges your fundamental philosophical assumptions while at the same time ignoring what you see as the truth.
It’s simple. You claim you are against the Obama worship. But you are not against the belief that what you believe and what you are doing will lead to the salvation of America.
What makes you think the zeal you put into your beliefs, Oz, is any better than the zeal people put into Obama?
You could be supporting Ron Paul or some such independent candidate, of course. But I never hear you talk about them, which makes me think it ain’t going to be Ron paul you support.
Ozzie –
You are doing it again.
I asked you when in the last 50 years MASSES OF CONSERVATIVES resorted to violence to protest something and you responded by citing a link that shows one guy at the McCain/Palin rally who is mad because our country appears to be turning socialist. (And did you get a good look at him, Ozzie? He doesn’t exactly look like the kind of guy who is ready to get out on the streets, smash cars and throw Molotov cocktails.)
You then go on and repeat heresay, allegations, and suspicions about individual acts of violence.
How does any of that show what you claim? That if Obama wins, there will be MORE violence (presumably by Republicans)?
How? Please, answer the question.
Look, as many concerns as I have about McCain, I don’t want Obama to win because I think he is going to be terrible for this country. But if he does, I will pray for his safety because I don’t want some lunatic hurting him, his family, or this nation.
Deana
I asked you when in the last 50 years MASSES OF CONSERVATIVES resorted to violence to protest- Deanna
Mobs have resorted to violence for various reasons. The KKK, for example, marched enmass in the 1960s. And yes, they resorted to violence on a regualr basis.
You then go on and repeat heresay, allegations, and suspicions about individual acts of violence.- Deanna
Heresay? Hardly:
Keep The N*gger Out Of Office”
Cops: Man threatened voter officials over tardy registration card
OCTOBER 8–Angered by a delay in the receipt of his voter registration card, a Louisiana man today threatened election officials, claiming that he urgently needed to cast a ballot to “keep the nigger out of office,” according to police. Wade Williams, 75, was arrested this morning on a felony terrorizing charge after allegedly calling the Registrar of Voters and warning that he would come to the state office and empty his shotgun unless he got his registration card. Using profanity and racial slurs, Williams told a state official “about needing to vote to ‘keep the nigger out of office,” according to an Ouachita Parish Sheriff’s Office affidavit, a copy of which you’ll find here. Though the document does not name the candidate to which Williams is so violently opposed, it seems likely he was referring to Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1008082voter1.html
How does any of that show what you claim? That if Obama wins, there will be MORE violence (presumably by Republicans)?
How? Please, answer the question- Deanna
Because anger is high and conditions are ripe and finally after a week of escallating anger, John McCain realized he had to calm things down a bit- and was booed at crowds for calling Obama “decent.”
It’s not just me… Several conservatives have warned tht McCain Palin are inciting mob mentality with the rhetoric and that violence could very well be the next step.
Here’s but one example:
Call Off the Pit Bull
“. . . The McCain campaign knows that Obama isn’t a Muslim or a terrorist, but they’re willing to help a certain kind of voter think he is. Just the way certain South Carolinians in 2000 were allowed to think that McCain’s adopted daughter from Bangladesh was his illegitimate black child.
But words can have more serious consequences than lost votes and we’ve already had a glimpse of the Palin effect.
The Post’s Dana Milbank reported that media representatives in Clearwater were greeted with taunts, thunder sticks and profanity. One Palin supporter shouted an epithet at an African-American soundman and said, “Sit down, boy.”
McCain may want to call off his pit bull before this war escalates.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100702436_2.html?sid=ST2008100801720&s_pos=
I’m going to vote for McCain in November come hell or high water but I will take Oz’s side in one matter: two years as Governor of Alaska does not qualify Sarah Palin for the position to which she is nominated. I write that with no rancor or contempt toward Mrs. Palin, nor do I mean to be dismissive of her political future. I’d say the same thing if Bobby Jindal had been McCain’s VP. Two years isn’t sufficient. I think they both need to finish their gubernatorial terms, keeping promises made to the voters who elected them, and gain more experience on the executive level. Watching McCain, frankly, refreshes the misgivings I’ve had about McCain for several years. And those doubts have not centered upon his conservatism but on his judgment and temperament. He grandstands. He lurches, shoots from the hip. Choosing Palin as VP was a grandstand play — inspired or idiotic, depending on your point of view– right after the Democrat convention and Obama’s rather dull acceptance speech. His “suspension” of his campaign and attempt to postpone the first debate was another. I think this fell flat. Neither McCain nor the Empty Suit showed much in the way of leadership in ironing out this bailout bill boondoggle. McCain can boast of bipartisanship, and Reaching Across the Aisle, but what has been the fruit of that labor? Certainly no credit from the media and the other adverse party, the Democrats, who bemoan the loss of the “McCain Maverick Model 2000″ (though I see no real Jekyll & Hyde on McCain’s part; the media is simply as fickle and duplicitous as the whores who used to solicit men in pre-Giuliani Times Square). And the showpiece of bipartisan legislation McCain cooked up while crossing the aisle is McCain-Feingold, a travesty of reform. It compromised the First Amendment, and if its purpose was to Take Money Out of Politics, it failed miserably; there’s demonstrably oodles more money in politics now than pre McC-F, and even Obama has deigned to forsake public financing in lieu of the torrent of money he’s hustled up. Sorry for this screed, but less than 30 days before the election, I find myself here on the midway pretty well soured on the while lurid and meretricious carnival.
>>During the same period, American business men were supporting Hitler and plotting to model his policies.>>
Are you aware that people were unaware of the treatment of the Jews until the war ended and the US Army actually went into the camps? There were rumors, of course, but people considered them so unbelievable that they were dismissed as being just that – rumors.
Facism under Mussolini was reasonably successful – or seemed so. Facism under Hitler was also successful, but the terribleness of the holocaust dwarfed any social success they may have had.
Aside from his treatment of the Jews – a pretty big aside, I admit – what policies of Hitler do you object to? In other words, why is facism a problem for you?
Are you aware that people were unaware of the treatment of the Jews until the war ended and the US Army actually went into the camps? There were rumors, of course, but people considered them so unbelievable that they were dismissed as being just that – rumors. – suek
I’m aware that in 1943, Union Bank official Prescott Bush (George W.’s grandfather) was charged with “Running Nazi front groups in the United States.” and that newly discovered government documents prove that Prescott Bush’s ties to the Nazis continued until as late as 1951, and that he and his cohorts “routinely attempted to conceal their activities from government investigators.”
I am also aware that he was behind the plot to overthrow FDR and install a fascist government in the U.S.
In retrospect, this 1944 op-ed by FDR’s Vice President, Henry A Wallace reads like a HUGE warning to us all.
The Danger of American Fascism Henry A Wallace, April 9, 1944
http://newdeal.feri.org/wallace/haw23.htm
“Aside from his treatment of the Jews – a pretty big aside, I admit – what policies of Hitler do you object to? In other words, why is facism a problem for you? – suek
As a libertarian, I reject authoritarianism in all its forms. Fascism and freedom cannot coexist. As Albert Einstein put it: “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”
Germany devolved under the Nazis and according to the book, They Thought They were Free,’ Germans felt it, but anyone who tried to articulate it was considered an “alarmist.”
Mobs have resorted to violence for various reasons. The KKK, for example, marched enmass in the 1960s. And yes, they resorted to violence on a regualr basis.
KKK=Created by Democrats to topple newly elected Republican governments in Southern states after the Civil War had freed slaves and given them the right to vote.
1960s version= Robert Byrd, Senator, Democrat.
OCTOBER 8–Angered by a delay in the receipt of his voter registration card, a Louisiana man today threatened election officials, claiming that he urgently needed to cast a ballot to “keep the nigger out of office,” according to police. Wade Williams, 75, was arrested this morning on a felony terrorizing charge after allegedly calling the Registrar of Voters and warning that he would come to the state office and empty his shotgun unless he got his registration card. Using profanity and racial slurs, Williams told a state official “about needing to vote to ‘keep the nigger out of office,” according to an Ouachita Parish Sheriff’s Office affidavit, a copy of which you’ll find here. Though the document does not name the candidate to which Williams is so violently opposed, it seems likely he was referring to Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.
So you are more worried about this one isolated incident and not worried about Obama’s friend Ayers, who bombed and tried to kill people, not just threatened to.
There is your priority list right there.
I’m aware that in 1943, Union Bank official Prescott Bush (George W.’s grandfather) was charged with “Running Nazi front groups in the United States.” and that newly discovered government documents prove that Prescott Bush’s ties to the Nazis continued until as late as 1951, and that he and his cohorts “routinely attempted to conceal their activities from government investigators.”
Great bipartisan effort there, Oz. You’re really saving America here.
Aside from his treatment of the Jews – a pretty big aside, I admit – what policies of Hitler do you object to? In other words, why is facism a problem for you?
Anything that gets in the Left’s way is fascist. Hitler got in Stalin’s way: fascist pigs.
and that newly discovered government documents prove
That probably means it has about the same standard of proof as you used to show that Republicans stole 2000/2004, Oz.
Hmm…Ozzie,
Would that be the same Prescott Sheldon Bush that was a recognized “liberal” in his day and supporter of the United Negro Fund? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush]
Would that be the same Henry Wallace who admitted having erred as a fellow-traveler and admirer of the Soviet Union during the worst excesses of Stalin’s reign?
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_A._Wallace]
Seriously, Ozzie, you should stop sipping the Kool-Aid at all those Lefty sites [http://www.infoplease.com/spot/jonestown1.html]. Your view of the world gets very distorted…or does better conform to your comfort zone?
Also, Ozzie, please don’t equate anti-black (or anti-Japanese) racism and the KKK with Republicans. These are movements that sprang up from the Democrat party…it’s a tradition that harkens back at-least 175 years and it hasn’t changed one-whit (witness that status of poor blacks warehoused in Democrat-dominated cities). It is the Republican party that has consistently fought against racism and against race-defined interests all this time.
Would that be the same Prescott Sheldon Bush that was a recognized “liberal” in his day and supporter of the United Negro Fund? DannyL
He’s the one who was charged under the “Trading with the enemy act” in 1942. According to recently declassifed documents, his ties with the Nazis continued until 1951.
This information can be found via the Library of Congress in Washington and the National Archives at the University of Maryland.
Prescott Bush was a director and shareholder of a number of companies involved with Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s. Acorrding to the National Archives (vesting order number 248) on October 20 1942 the assets of the Union Bank Company, of which Prescott Bush was a director were seized, as were those of two affiliates, the Holland-American Trading Corporation and the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation. The Silesian-American Company, another Prescott Bush company was seized that Nov.
For more, here’s a report from Fox News
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html
A report issued by the Office of Alien Property Custodian in 1942 stated that t “since 1939, these (steel and mining) properties have been in possession of and have been operated by the German government and have undoubtedly been of considerable assistance to that country’s war effort”.
Would that be the same Prescott Sheldon Bush that was a recognized “liberal” in his day – DannyL
Another bit of Prescott Bush trivia:
CNN on Prescott Bush Stealing Geronimo’s Skull for Skull and bones
Also, Ozzie, please don’t equate anti-black (or anti-Japanese) racism and the KKK with Republicans- Danny
Deanna asked me why I think there could be even more violence if Obama wins. I pointed to behavior at McCain’s rallies and the anger and hateful rhetoric.
And, on top of that, according to the police report, the gunamn at this summer’s Unitarian Church shooting expressed disdain for Democrats and “liberals” who were deliberately targetted.
Was the KKK only made up of Democrats? I somehow doubt it. But it doesnt matter. I still contend that members of the “right” can be as scary and angry as those on the left.
>>Prescott Bush was a director and shareholder of a number of companies involved with Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s.>>
Two things:
a) Again, facism was fairly rampant in that period, and quite respectable. If you’re a libertarian, then of course you don’t approve of that as a form of government, but again, facism wasn’t tainted with the “evil” tag until Hitler used his power to eradicate the Jews. Since the discovery of the holocaust, the very name of facism is discredited even though it had nothing to do with the holocaust other than the misuse of the power of the government.
b) use of identifying Bush with his predecessor’s support of a form of government which has been tainted with the abuse of that form of government is nothing more than trying to attempt to blacken the name of president Bush by attempting to portray politics as an hereditary characteristic. If that were true, the greatest generation would not have given birth to the flower power generation which gives us such problems now.
How many generations do you think it would take to erase the misplaced support of Prescott Bush?
>>Was the KKK only made up of Democrats?>>
Who knows? Maybe Senator and Grand Kleagle Byrd can tell you.
The difference, though, is that the KKK was a organized _group_. The individuals you mention are _indivicuals_. Not organized.
Individual extremists don’t usually present a serious threat. Not that they can’t do harm, but they are not usually a serious threat.
Organized extremist groups _are_ a threat.
use of identifying Bush with his predecessor’s support of a form of government which has been tainted with the abuse of that form of government is nothing more than trying to attempt to blacken the name of president Bush by attempting to portray politics as an hereditary characteristic- suek
I believe this whole thing started as a discussion of what has occured in the past during times of duress, most notably in the 1930s and 1960s.
If you note, the Heinz family was also involved.
But, back to the idea that conditions are ripe for 60s-era-type violence against Sen Obama, and that prominent Republicans have also been sounding the arlarm..
Here are but a couple more people who’ve weighed in:
Former Reagan advisor David Gergen:
COOPER: There’s also the question of ruling after this, and bringing the country together. It’s going to be all the more harder to do that whoever wins with all this anger out there.
GERGEN: This—I think one of the most striking things we’ve seen now in the last few day. We’ve seen it in a Palin rally. We saw it at the McCain rally today. And we saw it to a considerable degree during the rescue package legislation. There is this free floating sort of whipping around anger that could really lead to some violence. I think we’re not far from that.
COOPER: Really?
GERGEN: I think it’s so—well, I really worry when we get people—when you get the kind of rhetoric that you’re getting at these rallies now. I think it’s really imperative that the candidates try to calm people down. And that’s why I’ve argued not only because of the question of the ugliness of it.
Republican Frank Schaeffer:
John McCain, If your campaign does not stop equating Sen. Barack Obama with terrorism, questioning his patriotism and portraying Mr. Obama as “not one of us,” I accuse you of deliberately feeding the most unhinged elements of our society the red meat of hate, and therefore of potentially instigating violence.
Stop! Think! Your rallies are beginning to look, sound, feel and smell like lynch mobs.
John McCain, you’re walking a perilous line. If you do not stand up for all that is good in America and declare that Senator Obama is a patriot, fit for office, and denounce your hate-filled supporters when they scream out “Terrorist” or “Kill him,” history will hold you responsible for all that follows.
John McCain and Sarah Palin, you are playing with fire, and you know it. You are unleashing the monster of American hatred and prejudice, to the peril of all of us. You are doing this in wartime. You are doing this as our economy collapses. You are doing this in a country with a history of assassinations.
Change the atmosphere of your campaign. Talk about the issues at hand. Make your case. But stop stirring up the lunatic fringe of haters, or risk suffering the judgment of history and the loathing of the American people – forever.
We will hold you responsible.
for more:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.mccain10oct10,0,7557571.story
And, on top of that, according to the police report, the gunamn at this summer’s Unitarian Church shooting expressed disdain for Democrats and “liberals” who were deliberately targetted.
And who stopped him? The Police? No. Armed citizens. And Barack Obama and you, for that matter, are all for armed citizens, right.
Don’t quote isolated incidents that are stopped by the US 2nd Amendment as a mark against McCain and a mark for Obama.
How many generations do you think it would take to erase the misplaced support of Prescott Bush?
The Left’s Original Sin can never be wiped away.
Deanna asked me why I think there could be even more violence if Obama wins. I pointed to behavior at McCain’s rallies and the anger and hateful rhetoric.
From 80 years ago? Get real, Oz. What kind of reality do you live in here, where events that occurred that long in the past are the same as what we should judge Obama and McCain on.
Was the KKK only made up of Democrats? I somehow doubt it.
Somehow I doubt that all your election hackers are all made out of religious extremists. But that never stopped you from labeling your political opponents.
Let’s be clear here, you don’t care about what the KKK was made up of. You don’t care what individuals may choose to do or not do. You don’t need evidence to support your beliefs. You already know what is true and nobody can tell you otherwise, except the people who play to your prejudices against Republicans and religion.
I still contend that members of the “right” can be as scary and angry as those on the left.
Stop lying. You have already told us that the reason you are supporting the Democrats and is a partisan to boot is because you believe Republicans and people on the right are more scary and cause more damage than Democrats who do some of the same things.
Now you try to say that they “can be as” scary. But if that was true, you would be talking about Bush’s grandfather and all the Democrat grandfathers that were in the KKK and what not: Communist parties as well. But you don’t do that.
You choose to act openly partisan and talk about Bush. Bush this, BUsh election that, and what not. Palin this, not so much McCain that.
But, back to the idea that conditions are ripe for 60s-era-type violence against Sen Obama, and that prominent Republicans have also been sounding the arlarm..
Do you know that you just destroyed your own argument?
Republicans are sounding the alarm. When Democrats tried to character assassinate Sarah Palin, Democrats and their supporters like you Oz, said not a word. Some owned up to their party’s conduct, but you said nothing about them. You didn’t highlight their comments here, you didn’t link to them here, you didn’t pay them any attention or give them any support.
Your central argument that Republicans are more hate filled than Democrats and are more prone to mob violence, given the record of Democrat civil disobedience leading to smashed in windows at Macy’s, gets shredded the more you use Republicans as your source. Because you can’t find any Democrats that want the truth. You can’t find any Democrats that support efforts to clean up vote fraud. Link
Your excuse is that there’s no reason to find any Democrats. Democrats aren’t the problem to you, Oz, Republicans are. Republicans like Sarah Palin. That’s the threat and you’ll find any news article or person you can scrape off the bottom of the barrel to support that iron plated belief of yours.
Comment 29 of yours demonstrates your inability to accept the truth.
Ozzie
You believe yourself the appointed savior of the Republican party and thus America? You support Obama because he is the One and you believe yourself to also be part of that salvation?- Ymar
When did I ever say I suport Obama becasue he’s “the One”? I find Obama worship to be disturbing.
No, I said that the Palin pick made me decide to vote against John McCain.
I made a mistake when I attributed plagiarism to a commenter on the thread about The Dark Knight, given I was reading through the comments quickly.
Can you acknowledge the same about your own actions in 29? Do you, in fact, have the intellectual honesty to look back on your positions in light of new evidence and declare them wrong if in fact the data and evidence demonstrates that they are wrong?
Do you have the capability to recognize your own blindspots after they have been exposed.
Ah another cookie from the left. The only thing you need to know about them is that in every batter you will always find a nugget of horse apple.
Prescott Bush, guffaw. Yes siree bob, those Harriman brothers had a plan to take Roosevelt out.
This is fun, I’ve been a lifelong democrat/progressive, but I’m concerned about Obama’s Chicago Mob connections. I don’t see how anyone could vote for Obama given his ties to the mob. I know McCain talked with Charles Keating (Lincoln S&L,) and that bothers me. It’s clear that both sides are corrupt.
Ozzie
As usual, this is only projection on the libs part.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/greenwald/37191
Trying to justify violence on the Conservative behalf is nothing more than bs.
Anecdotal evidence aside, not a single Conservative I have spoken to has even hinted at violence. Ever.
The racists at these events are not welcome.
>>I know McCain talked with Charles Keating (Lincoln S&L,) and that bothers me.>>
So…you are absolutely certain that every person you’ve ever spoken to in your life had no connection to any crime whatsoever???
Do you _really_ think that all dishonest people have the mark of Cain on their forehead??
McCain was cleared of any misdoing. He was censured for “using poor judgement”. How long do you think we’ll have to wait for Barney Frank and/or Chris Dodd to be censured??? Or Obama. Obama’s link is the Acorn link. He’s in up to his neck, and it was Acorn that was primarily responsible for the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac disaster. It should be hung around Obama’s neck as well.
Phooey. I agree that there is corruption on both sides. I disagree that the Keating deal showed McCain to be corrupt.
McCain was cleared of any misdoing.
Allen, remember McCain-Feingold and how that was supposed to clean up campaign contributions? If McCain could be so fauked up wrong about Feingold and craptastic legislation like that, don’t you also think his judgment is a little bit impaired when meeting with people like Keating?
He’s like BUsh in this respect. He thinks they are honest or at least working for the good. But if they aren’t working for the good, he gets kind of surprised. That is very consistent if you look at McCain’s “bipartisan” deals.
Anecdotal evidence aside, not a single Conservative I have spoken to has even hinted at violence. Ever.
The racists at these events are not welcome.
How many conservatives do you know go out in marches of protest to vandalism and stir up trouble so they can be arrested, Rock?
Ozzie, what say you?
http://tinyurl.com/523jjl
I guess that now condemns all libs as violent.
Just using your standards, heh.
Actually Y, I get around the Midwest a bit and meet mostly Conservatives. I interact with business people who really do not have time for such foolishness.
Here are more of those dastardly Conservatives threatening violence.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/some-street-organizers-at-work-code-pink
Oh my, those aren’t Conservatives at all. Silly me.
Lots of pictures too.
Friday, October 10, 2008
New Evidence Proves Former Kenyan Barack Obama Coached His Marxist Cousin Raila Odinga During ’07 Elections & Riots
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/
I guess the point has been made. If there is violence in the aftermath of this election, it will not originate from the Conservative side. Period.
As usual, this is only projection on the libs part.-” Rock
Um, no, it’s not. I linked to articles from three Conservatives who spoke out against this, but there have been several. I can post more, iif you like. There are also taped interviews of Conservatives decrying McCain/Palin tactics.
“Ah another cookie from the left. The only thing you need to know about them is that in every batter you will always find a nugget of horse apple.
Prescott Bush, guffaw. Yes siree bob, those Harriman brothers had a plan to take Roosevelt out.” Allen
Well, Allen, I won’t call you names but I wil say that your matter of trying to refute what I’m saying is weak.
I dont believe the Harriman brothers were involved in the attempted coup. And maybe you dont believe anything that doesnt come from Commentary or Town Hall, but the BBC covered the plot this summer::
“Document uncovers details of a planned coup in the USA in 1933 by a group of right-wing American businessmen.
The coup was aimed at toppling President Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell Hse & George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression.
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/07/25/bbc-ws-grandpappy-pl.html
“Anecdotal evidence aside, not a single Conservative I have spoken to has even hinted at violence. . . ”
Are you serious? You think Conservatives never commit acrts of violence? I guess that shooting at that Unitarian Church this summer was the figment of the police who filed the reports.
I interact with business people who really do not have time for such foolishness.
You don’t know any? Surely if what Oz says is true, you would know somebody that would preach violent revolutionary zeal about assassinating Democrats, right?
Oz, you want to stop corruption, fine. But don’t talk about other people being partisan when you are willing to be one sided yourself on the justification that the Republicans need your “enlightenment” more.
I guess that shooting at that Unitarian Church this summer was the figment of the police who filed the reports.
The Left calls everybody that acts violently a “right wing nut”, Oz. Please excuse the fact that we don’t really take it seriously whenever people like you talk about right wing nuts combined with gun rampages.
Ozzie, what say you?
If Obama was saying that Palin was “Not America like you and me” and accusing her of “Palling around with terrorists,” and the crowd yelled “Off with her head” and “Kill her,!” I’d be very concerned.
According to this, Philly Flyer fans booed her. Whoopdie Doo.
They’re Hockey Fans. From Philly. Who Wanted to see a hockey game and didnt not travel down the Skulkyllto see some lame politician.
I lived in Philly.
Philly hockey fans are not wilting lefties. But they dont suffer fools gladly.
I agree completely with Zhombre in #37. I will definitely be voting for McCain, though I do feel he has betrayed conservative principles. As I said in #1, the vote is about the choice between the candidates, and the choice *is* clear.
Suek, I’d like to respond to what you wrote in #3:
I’ve been dead set on the bailout having been the wrong thing to do, and the idea of buying into banks as being absolutely socialistic. Last night, however, Steve Forbes said it was the right and necessary thing. The problem is that I recognize that I do _not_ have the qualifications to predict the action we should be taking, and have to find sources that I think _do_ have those qualifications and follow their guidelines. Steve Forbes falls into that category, by the way.
I’m with you on the bailout being wrong and socialistic. And that Steve Forbes is an acknowledged expert. Aren’t George W. Bush, Henry Paulson, Ben Bernanke acknowledged experts as well? They’re on board, too. But are this set of four names acting according to conservative principles?
My argument is this: The bailout passed under threats and exhortations of urgency! urgency! urgency! We need this now! What were the immediate effects? Not much beyong a stock market collapse. The credit crunch remains in effect. The actual purpose of the bill – the bailout of financial institutions – will take months. George W. Bush urges patience, says this is going to take time, for the actions resulting from the bailout bill.
Do you see why I am so upset? There’s a growing consensus that the emergency fix was to be the easing of the credit crunch, and the bailout bill failed at that. And real action requires months! Why, then, couldn’t we have taken an extra week to come to a better bill? Why were our representatives railroaded? They were railroaded by Bush and Paulson. Bernanke stayed silent. Forbes issued his support for the emergency action.
Paulson is under a cloud of conflict of interest concerns. George W. Bush, a man of good heart but highly dubious conservatism, acted in good faith, for sure. Forbes I am sure is of good faith. But they failed! And their failure was via actions that had nothing to do with conservative principles. What Bush and Paulson did, and what Forbes supports, is 180 degrees from conservative action! And it failed!
Now Bush and financial world leaders are huddling and looking directly at the credit crunch issue (finally)! In the meantime, we have massive government takeover of vast portions of our capitalist system. This is a disaster.
I am voting for McCain, but his actions have not matched real conservatism in any way, shape, or form either. His words and proposals concerning the financials crisis evidence absolutely no conservatism. This is terrible to me, but of course Obama is worse.
That is why, come what may, on Nov 5th, I will begin figuring out how I can support genuine conservatives in Washington D.C. The best I can say of most of the current crew is that they are some sort of pragmatists who lack any conservative spine. That got us into this mess; it’s just not good enough, not anymore, not when the Democrats are about to lurch wildly to the left and take us all with them.
I’ll likely be trying to get a group of fellow citizens in my area together after the evening of the Nov 4th. We’ll try to meet with area House Republicans, trying to get statements of conservative principles. I’m going to join a coalition, try to find leaders for a resurgent movement. We’ll be looking at our Senators as well. We’ll be looking at supporting strong State candidates.
I cannot accept our current set of non-conservative pragmatists. Not Steve Forbes, not George W. Bush, not Henry Paulson. They’ve failed while showing no resistance to the liberal agenda. Bush has presided over a massive increase in federal spending the likes of which hasn’t been seen (I may have to compare it against FDR and against Johnson’s Great Society, and isn’t that sad, that those are the comparison points? In conjunction Bush has presided over the worst increase in the national debt ever. Tax cuts alone are one of three pillars, and the other two pillars under Bush are made of sand. It’s a disaster.
I need true conservatism and I’m going to fight for it.
The Left calls everybody that acts violently a “right wing nut”, Oz- Ymar
Geeze.. Sometimes they are Right Wing Nuts.
For your consideration:
Affidavit: Man admits church shooting, says liberals should die
KNOXVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) — A man accused of fatally shooting two adults and wounding seven others at a Knoxville church told police the church’s liberal teachings prompted him to attack, according to court papers.. . .
According to the affidavit requesting to search Adkisson’s home, the suspect told investigators liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country. Adkisson also blamed Democrats for the country’s decline, according to the affidavit.
“He felt that the Democrats had tied his country’s hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets,” the affidavit said. “Because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement … he would then target those that had voted them into office.”
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/28/church.shooting/
I guess that shooting at that Unitarian Church this summer was the figment of the police who filed the reports.
Republicans know how to solve that and they have been trying to do so. What have you been doing, Oz, supporting such efforts or trying to block them? What are your positions on the 2nd Amendment, anyway. Do you support disarming citizens, Democrat and Republican, so they can be slaughtered in “gun free” zones like Virginia Tech and Columbine, Oz?
Geeze.. Sometimes they are Right Wing Nuts.
I don’t think you would classify as a Right Wing Nut, Oz. So why should we assume you are one?
I cannot accept our current set of non-conservative pragmatists. Not Steve Forbes, not George W. Bush, not Henry Paulson. They’ve failed while showing no resistance to the liberal agenda. Bush has presided over a massive increase in federal spending the likes of which hasn’t been seen (I may have to compare it against FDR and against Johnson’s Great Society, and isn’t that sad, that those are the comparison points? In conjunction Bush has presided over the worst increase in the national debt ever. Tax cuts alone are one of three pillars, and the other two pillars under Bush are made of sand. It’s a disaster.
You got to stop saying these things, Mike, or else you’ll make a liar out of Oz who claimed that Deana and others here were okay with Bush spending but would blame Obama for socialism.
Adkisson also blamed Democrats for the country’s decline, according to the affidavit.
Sounds just like your type of bipartisanship, Oz. Blames both parties, but choose target one party first and foremost.
Correction, by parties I mean party leadership and party voters.
But let’s assume that Left wing operators and Democrats are right in calling him a Right Wing Nut.
You have Republicans calling Republicans to account. You have GOP and people on the right policing their own and ensuring that future incidents like this won’t occur successfully. You have successful anti-terrorism methods being learned by the US military to protect regular civilians against religious nuts. You have Republicans criticising Republican vote problems, in your accusations.
So the problem, Oz, is that all of this proves that you are wrong. The GOP is not the party that has a problem with violence to such an extent that you need to focus on the GOP rather than the Left’s Obama.
Do you see why I am so upset? There’s a growing consensus that the emergency fix was to be the easing of the credit crunch, and the bailout bill failed at that. And real action requires months! Why, then, couldn’t we have taken an extra week to come to a better bill? Why were our representatives railroaded? They were railroaded by Bush and Paulson. Bernanke stayed silent. Forbes issued his support for the emergency action. – Mike
I’m with you on this, Mike.
Personally, I think most of our politicians have been bought and paid for and the others were railroaded. Why threaten members of Congress with imminet martial law?
“I cannot accept our current set of non-conservative pragmatists. – Mike
I think the system is broken and you won’t find many true conservatives (or true liberals) in Congress ever again.
Pauk Wellstone seemed to be genuine. And Ron Paul also seems to say what he thinks and stay true to his constituents.
Most do “the dance,” however, and aren’t very trustworthy.
Ozzie,
Perhaps you missed the part where I said personally know of no violence advocating Conservatives.
The point of my multiple post was to show you where the likelihood of violence will originate.
Of course there are violent people that claim to be Conservative, just as there are many people that claim to be Christian.
Claiming so don’t make it so.
Ozzie,
I completely agree with you and Mike on this issue. Who ever started the martial law meme ought to have been hauled away to the funny farm.
An Open Letter to my Friends on the Left
Steven Horwitz
Department of Economics
St. Lawrence University
http://myslu.stlawu.edu/~shorwitz/open_letter.htm
This, sadly, fell on deaf ears.
I completely agree with you and Mike on this issue. Who ever started the martial law meme ought to have been hauled away to the funny farm.
- Rock
It was this guy.
And quite frankly, he doesn’t seem deluded and/or insincere
>> But are this set of four names acting according to conservative principles?>>
No…but it still might have been necessary. As for why the rush…why not work for a better bill. Two possibilities come to mind: a) an application may take a long time, but you have to take the first step before you know the direction you’re taking. Nothing can start until that first step is taken. b) to prevent the Washington crowd from making it impossible to get through the system without adding even more pork etc. To forestall an attempt to get more money for ACORN back into the bill.
Basically, I agree with you. If McCain wins and can find conservative economic advisors, it might work out…we might get back where we should be although I share your skepticism. If Obama wins, the triumerate will continue to take over. Socialism will have arrived.
>>I need true conservatism and I’m going to fight for it.>>
Let us know if you find a reliable group.
Ozzie,
The speaker is Congressman Brad Sherman, a Dem from California.
He is actually speaking against the bailout. He is just repeating, what he claims, are comments made off the record by others. Unfortunately he does not name names.
Socialism will have arrived- suek
Doesnt it seem that socialism has already arrived? And that maybe that’s the agenda, regardless who becomes president? John McCain’s plan to buy up bad mortgages sounded pretty socialistic to me.
“Unfortunately he does not name names” – Rock
Yes, I know. I wish he did. But he seemed sincere. And sincerely disgusted by the fear mongering.
And I agree with him that the bill didnt need to be rushed and the whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Suek,
Thanks! As to finding a good group, well, I have no idea how to do this whatsoever. I’m not oriented to be a leader, but I sure as damn hell am going to do the best I can to get involved.
(As a software guy and consultant, I’ve been very good at finding great managers to work for – I focus on leadership when I join a project, and I’ve never been disappointed. Of course, one aspect of good leadership is hiring an excellent team, and through all the various software methodologies I’ve been involved with, it’s always come down to great management decisions and a fantastic team.)
So, I am a total newbie at getting involved in politics, trying to find and help organize a good team of people. But I am damn sure going to try. I can’t just sit back any longer.
Ozzie,
This is an informative video by Bill Whittle, in which he discusses the bailout.
Worth your time. Only two minutes.
http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=video&media-id=1256
At the front page, skip the test option and go straight to play.
If you have the time, Bill has an essay, Tribes, that probably will explain a little of my thinking, and I am sure that of the majority of the posters here.
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000129.html
Though written in 2005, the essay contains many timeless truths that are applicable to any day and age.
Mike Devx,
I do not know where you live, so for what its worth, I will offer this.
I live in the Chicago area and have found a very reliable and informative blog that covers the local, state, and national scenes.
The blog has many writers and contributors, which makes gathering information a much easier task.
If you do not have one in your area, start one. Gather like minded contributors and you’re off and running.
Best of luck, whichever way you decide.
If you would like to look at the blog, here is the link.
Illinois Review: http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/
Hmm, come to think, there is a poster on the blog using the name bookworm.
Couldn’t be the same one, you think?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=0F03A69D-2986-4CE8-9158-C986849424D5
Black Racists Recruited to Guide the Jihad
Snip:
Black Muslim lawyer Khalid Abdullah Tariq al-Mansour recently made news when it was revealed that he was a patron of Barack Obama and recommended him for admission to Harvard Law School in 1988. Back in the 1960s, al-Mansour, whose “slave name” was then Don Warden, was deeply involved in Bay Area racial politics as founder of a group called the African American Association. A close personal adviser to Huey Newton and Bobby Seale, al-Mansour helped the pair establish the Black Panther Party but later broke with them when they entered coalitions with white radical groups. After becoming a Muslim, al-Mansour found not only an ideological justification for his racism but also a political purpose. That was, in the words of a memorandum produced by the Muslim Brotherhood and seized by the FBI as part of its probe of the Holy Land Foundation, to “eliminate and destroy the Western civilization from within.” Many black racists like al-Mansour are key figures in this “stealth” jihad, whose prime recruiting grounds are the U.S. prisons and mosques where inmates and worshippers alike are taught to embrace a radical Islam engaged in an apocalyptic battle against America.
Al-Mansour met Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal in the mid-1970s and formed a relationship that led to al-Mansour’s hiring as attorney to King Saud. He has since been an adviser to Saudi billionaires who fund the stealth jihad and spread Wahhabi extremism in America.
Copied verbatim from Grimmy.
To a certain extent, your efforts to fight corruption and violence are transparent, Oz. In other matters, however, it isn’t very transparent. It is transparent that you believe the GOP has problems just like Democrats do. It is transparent that you believe the GOP has even more problems and is even more of a threat than Democrats have and are. Based upon this, you focus priority on bringing GOP issues to light. You do so by quoting Republican people criticizing Republicans to protect yourself from charges of partisanship: of being for Obama, which you ostensibly are, until you deny it that is.
So here’s the logic summarization.
GOP does more election hacking than the Democrats, which is why Democrats ignore issues like ACORn while Republicans focus on Electronic voting machine hacking vulnerabilities.
The GOP incites people to violence more than Democrats do, which is why Republicans are calling the McCain Campaign to account while Democrats are urging more ruthlessness, more threats, and more “in your face” campaigning.
If the GOP looses, they are more likely to conduct violent operations like assassinating Obama than Democrats would do if the case was switched around. You offer as proof a gunman who tried to kill everybody in a church because they were Democrat voters. You offer proof that the GOP is inciting mass murder by doing such things as ensuring every single individual, Democrat or Republican, can buy a gun and train in its use to carry it concealed with a permit so that any gunman is stopped in his or her tracks before he even fires the first or second shot. No, wait, correction: you offer proof that the GOP is inciting mass murder by doing such things as attempting to get Obama to make clear and reject his business associations with Ayers and Black Panther esque preachers and black racists.
It may just be me, Oz, but it looks like the Republican party has their problems well on the road to being solved here. We don’t need you to help us do it, especially if you are blocking the way of the solutions.
Republicans don’t want mass murderers loose. That’s why we highlight Obama’s partnerships. We don’t want mass murderers loose; we also don’t want mass murderers having influence in the highest office of the land.
You don’t like mass murderers killing Democrats in churches, Oz. Why, then, do you support people that provide those same mass murderers with influence, money, and protection?
Rockdalian,
Thank you. Very much! I accept your ideas and I promise you I will run with them. And any ideas any one else has to offer. (I am in Dallas, TX). This a conservative state, but we have PLENTY of room to improve here. We *all* have room to improve, when it comes to political leadership that adheres to sound conservative principles.
Thank you, again, for the ideas. I need ‘em!