I’d not really be out on patrol defending society, Y. I guess if enough of us are protecting our families and our “castles”, or are out there using concealed carry, then by numbers we actually would end up defending society from violent criminals. We’d have a “mass effect” by numbers on the criminals, and worse for them, because we’d be hidden among the sheep they wouldn’t know which of the sheep *we* are.

>> His [ the criminal's ] ROE works because law abiding citizens are …. law abiding. That means they have natural and healthy conditioning, set by society and community, not to steal, not to kill, not to murder, not to blow stuff up, and so forth. Humans are social animals first and foremost. That means we want to fit in and to belong. >>

I so completely agree. I’d note that the 9-11 hijackers depended precisely on this passivity. And now, at least on jet airplanes, such passivity is completely abolished – by mutual passenger consent. I dare anyone to try to hijack an airline anytime. They’d be ripped to shreds, as no one is willing to let themselves be flown into buildings as bombs and have their carcasses burned, hopefully not alive.

At some point you have to wonder when the same passivity in the face of murderous aggression on the streets will be abolished by mutual citizen consent as well. If the truly incredible levels of aggression and hatred and instability – nearly all on the left – surrounding this election blows up in our faces, that moment could arrive sooner than anyone thinks.

Recoil for a handgun matters in say, for example, you have a person who you have shot twice and won’t stay down. His buddies are around him but incoming at separate angles (never likely but it is one of the worst case scenario). A heavier handgun can take recoil better because the weight makes for a less jerky firing sequence. This allows you to put the sights back on target faster.

Normally, however, that’s really only useful for rapid fire pistol marksman courses or practices. In real life, hitting someone with a JHP round or a .45 will take them down and they will stay down. In most normal cases of criminal violence, once you pull out the gun and shoot one of your attackers or his buddy (or the leader), the rest will disperse at so fast a rate you will run out of targets very fast.

Statistically, this is just how criminal violence goes down. Criminals go after easy targets and victims. They normally avoid armed targets. They aren’t professional soldiers or even hired mercenaries (thugs). If you are facing a mob or gang, however, the same dynamic gets into play once the leader is down. A mob that has already flashed into a rage, however, will need something to stop the Brownian Motion of their charge. Tear gas or buckshot or horses are very effective at getting large crowds of people moving in the direction you want them to move. However, most street riots are not so much lynch mobs (incited by one or more specific persons to target a specific location or person) than they are a bunch of opportunists just moving in the general direction for (loot, mayhem, etc). The latter will avoid armed confrontation and lethal force cause they aren’t there to fight but to loot and enjoy burning stuff.

I’m never out and about after 10 pm, especially on weekends, so I’m not exposed to high-risk situations.

One of the first mental shifts for an unarmed citizen after he or she becomes an armed citizen is the recognition that you are more dangerous to the criminals than the criminals are to you. This is not so much cockiness and over-confidence as it is the instant recognition that 1. Criminals use lethal force only if they need it to get what they want while 2. I will use lethal force against criminals because the law here in Georgia allows it for self-defense and because criminals are outlaws. The Rules of Engagement are different. Outlaws, in the Old West, were treated the same as pirates were on the high seas. They are termed enemies of humanity and may be legally tried and executed by any national or civilian authority. The reason is very simple. Civilization and nations exist in a balance of power that requires the explicit recognition of a “social compact”: this is between the citizens of a nation and between nations and nations. Criminals are outside the law and social compact that allows human beings to work, live, and compete together.

Most criminals are not sociopaths or stone cold killers. However, that’s not exactly an assumption you want to be making once you are facing one or more of em. When a person pulls out a gun or threatens your life, it is always wise to take his word as fact even if he is only using it as a bluff.

Because Target Focus Training forces you to adopt the same Rules of Engagement as the worst of the criminals, terrorists, and pirates in this world, this means that you are operating at de facto OODA advantage compared to any lesser criminal. This is why you become more dangerous than criminals as an armed citizen. It is not because you have a gun, or know how to break joints, or are bigger, stronger, faster than your enemy. It is because you are operating at a level that not even most criminals are operating under. TFT trains you to unleash instantaneous death the same way serial killers and assassins conduct their operations. Against a petty crook, mob thug, or even physical battery/assault with a llethal weapon assailant, there is no contest. They are using force or the threat of force to make you give them what they want. You, however, only need to kill, maim, and break them apart. The latter is much simpler on a Rules of Engagement (OODA) level than the former.

This is actually the reverse of the United States Marines vs Al Qaeda terrorists. In that situation the US Marine has the longer OODA loop and more restricted rules of engagement because AQ uses martyr bombs, suicide bombers, command detonated cannonfodder bombers, children in VBIEDs, and various other things like human shields. AQ has the less complex ROE in this situation because AQ doesn’t care which civilians die or not while the US does. Al Qaeda has less social restrictions than the US cause AQ is sociopathic. On the same level, criminals have less social restrictions than law abiding citizens, Mike. A law abiding citizen that has armed himself and taken up the duty of defending family and society, however, has no restrictions when facing criminals. Not even by law, for the law won’t help the criminal, it will only punish the defender after the fact. Bad for you and bad for the criminal as well. It’s still no benefit to the criminal to have a law that will prosecute the victim for disproportionate use of force. And the fact that I am only using my bare hands also mean that “disproportionate use of force” will be very hard to prove given my normal body weight vs my attackers. Another advantage of open/empty hand methods.

For the criminal, his ROE works most of the time against law abiding citizens. How many times have you been told by the police “just give the guy what he wants. It ain’t worth your life”. In reality, it isn’t worth the criminal’s life to try to take stuff from me by force or threat. There is a fundamental difference in world view and philosophy there. His ROE works because law abiding citizens are …. law abiding. That means they have natural and healthy conditioning, set by society and community, not to steal, not to kill, not to murder, not to blow stuff up, and so forth. Humans are social animals first and foremost. That means we want to fit in and to belong. And since the cost to fitting in is obeying the law and the leaders, that is what human beings do from day 1. However, some humans are sociopathic or have chosen a different path. Human society, in fact, has evolved to the point where society can no longer be protected just by a “strong man” like in the days of European Feudalism or Absolute Monarchy. Now we need more than just a single exceptional individual to protect what we call the Republic. Now we need the armed might of every citizen, or as many as we can get, to defend the Republic.

Good point about Target Focus Training and, more generally, hand-to-hand and personal self-defense. I’m never out and about after 10 pm, especially on weekends, so I’m not exposed to high-risk situations. But you never know.

This is not something you can expect Helen to support, of course, but I’m not Helen.

He said lightweight plastic guns these days are durable enough not to worry about wear and tear.

The weight will affect the recoil, I believe. Which may or may not matter depending on how fast you can get the handgun back on target.

Metal or plastic?

9 mm plastic seems alright but the stopping power is hugely bad. If you use JHP, Europeans call that illegal now if I recall, it won’t ricochet (hit your dog or children or something when you miss or shoot through a target) if it is JHP and it will have far more stopping power. But I don’t buy ammo so I can’t tell you which guns use that type of ammo or not.

Many others I know that own handguns prefer the 1911 .45. It is combat tested if you value that sort of thing. There are composite versions of it as well in usp.

He’d go with single action over double action; what’s your opinion?

You should check out your house, your battle environment, and figure out whether you actually can use a shotgun in the tight corridors of your house or whether you are just going to use it outside from your doorstep.

Unless you are using buckshot, which doesn’t seem very safe in a home with your family at, the slugs of a shotgun doesn’t offer much more than pistols. Huge stopping power but low ammo and slow reload. You could get an automatic shotgun, but that seems to be overkill.

Also worry about the ammo you are going to use because if you want to train with that ammo, ammo costs are going to depend entirely on how expensive or inexpensive the ammo is.

I get my training and readiness from Target Focus Training. Nice for when you go through metal detectors and can’t carry what you wish you could carry. It’s also nice since nobody can disarm you of your body and use it against you like they could with a dropped knife or gun. Training in open hand against knives and guns are also an interesting psychological preparation for fighting in situations where you are outclassed. Dealing with the fear now will prevent a freeze in actuality.

And your friend is correct, today’s polymers are quite capable. Personally, I prefer steel only because it stabilizes my hold a bit better and reduces recoil a bit. But that’s me. You can rent different guns at shops/ranges and decide what you like.

If I am using a revolver, I prefer a double-action over single-action. I like the option of being able to shoot from a position where the hammer is not cocked. Again, that’s just me. I own a single-action and I love it. But my double-action is a tiny bit safer, especially in a stressful situation. Now, shooting from a resting, double-action position, accuracy does get compromised slightly because the effort needed to make the pull. But handguns aren’t sniper weapons, but close-quarter weapons where center-mass should be your target.

As for a 12-guage pump, yes it is very common. You can’t spit in some states without hitting one.

The bottom line is that a gun is like wine: The best is the one you like, not the one everybody says you should like.

I’ve always said that if there is a gun in a house and there is even one person living in the house who is not completely trained on that gun and on gun safety, get that gun OUT of the house immediately or get it irrefutably locked away. The household has been horribly irresponsible in that case, because guns are in fact very dangerous. That one untrained person in the house is FAR more of a danger to everyone else in the house than any other potential danger. (Unless you live in one of those collapsed urban neighborhood where shots are often heard in the night…)

A good friend of mine mentioned the .38 special and he has a .357! He also mentioned heading out to a gun show. I’ll be looking around, no rush.

He said lightweight plastic guns these days are durable enough not to worry about wear and tear. What do you think? Metal or plastic? He’d go with single action over double action; what’s your opinion?

The 12-gauge pump shotgun sounds like a very standard, very common shotgun. Is that right?

Thanks again for the notes on training and readiness. I completely agree.

Shotgun: There are many types. I prefer a pump in 12 guage. Again, get something that is decent quality and that is easy to clean and aim and shoot. You’ll know quality when you hold it and cycle the action a few times, same as the pistol above. Ask around, go to a gun show or two and just pick some people’s brains about these things.

Practice with both. There is nothing worse than trying to figure out a firearm under stressful situations. The simpler, the better. If you have children, keep the guns stored where you or other adults can reach them. Have plenty of ammo, cleaning kits, etc.

Remember, guns are designed to be instantly lethal. You cannot make a mistake with one. So practice, practice, practice… One mistake could be your last or the last of a loved one.

Think hard about this decision.

In fact, now might be the best time to begin investigating your gun purchase.
Prices are only going to go up. In the interests of responsible gun ownership, I recommend taking the training class as well.

Especially if the police’s concern in several urban centers are correct about violence breaking out the evening of Nov. 4th and going forward after that.

If Obama wins, gun restrictions are certainly not going to loosen, and there’s no way to tell by how much restrictions might vastly tighten. If McCain wins, there’s no telling what kind of continued instability may result.

I think there are a lot of good people here who can recommend an excellent handgun and shotgun. And what about ammo? I could use a recommendation for each.

I’m not joking, though I *am* hoping my concerns are misplaced. I am however finally getting worried. The tone out there is uglier than I’ve ever seen in my lifetime.

Thanks in advance!