November 4
Bookworm on Nov 03 2008 at 10:33 pm | Filed under: Barack Obama, John McCain, Presidential elections
I’m going to be working, not blogging, tomorrow morning, November 4, 2008, so feel free to consider this an open thread. I can’t let this occasion go by without a few words, though.
On the candidates:
If you believe government can solve most of our problems; if you believe Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are better at spending your money than you are; if you believe that the government exists to redistribute wealth from those it defines as rich to those victim groups it classes as deserving; if you believe that we ought to continue to be dependent on energy sources in the hands of our enemies; if you believe that the best defense is to disarm yourself; if you believe that the government should control the press to ensure “freedom”; if you believe that there should be no limits on immigrants coming into the country or on the benefits extended to those immigrants; and if you believe that judges shouldn’t just decide law, but should make it, according to their personal preferences, then you should definitely vote for Obama.
However, if you believe that you, not Barack/Pelosi/Reid, are the master of your own destiny; if you believe that a country must have secure borders and controlled immigration to remain strong; if you believe that government doesn’t make money, people make money; if you believe that the best defense is to appear ready, willing and able to fight to defend yourself; if you believe that your country should be energy independent for both security and economic purposes; if you believe in a free press unhindered by government mandated “fairness”; and if you believe that judges’ job is to apply the law and the legislature’s job is to make it (although make as little of it as possible), then you should definitely vote for McCain.
On the election tomorrow:
The most important thing you should do is ignore the media entirely and VOTE. The media will err about reporting closing times for voting. The media will enthusiastically report that Obama is winning in a landslide according to exit polls, but its talking heads will neglect to explain that, traditionally, conservatives don’t respond to exit polls, making the results completely one-sided and meaningless. The media will declare certain Eastern states for Obama long before actual results are in — with the result that people west of the Mississippi might think it’s pointless to vote.
It’s never pointless to vote. If you think you might be too late to vote, don’t rely on the media to check poll closing times. Go check the polling place out yourself. Take the time to drive up to your polling place and see if you can get in.
Every vote, from every person, in every state counts. If you are the last person voting on the furthest island of Hawaii tomorrow, YOUR VOTE COUNTS. Please remember the infinitesimally small margin by which Bush won Florida in 2000. EVERY VOTE COUNTS. I cannot guarantee that we will win if all of us vote tomorrow, but I can guarantee that we will lose if we allow the media to bamboozle us into walking away from the polls before the last polling place is locked and the lights turned out.
And one more thing: if Obama wins tomorrow — and it’s entirely possible that he will — do not throw temper tantrums and announce that you’re moving someplace where conservatives are respected (and good luck finding that place, anyway). Instead, immediately begin to work, not for 2012, but for 2010. Because I can almost promise you that, after a mere two years of non-stop, all encompassing Democratic rule, voters will be desperate to throw the Democrats out of the House and Senate. Then, having accomplished that goal, start working for 2012, when Palin and Cantor and Jindal and Steele, and a whole host of other exciting young conservatives will be chomping at the bit to take over the reins of government.
It’s true that an all-Democratic government led by Obama can do a lot of damage in a short time, but it will do even more damage if we turn away in disgust and cede government entirely to the Democratic agenda. We still have a voice in this country and we will continue to have a voice even if the first thing the Democrats do is pass a new Fairness Doctrine. When the old Fairness Doctrine was wiped out, everyone was surprised by the pent-up hunger for conservative thought. This time, though, we know that hunger exists, and we will find an outlet by which to feed it.
But let’s not worry about that future. Instead….
VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE
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Bookworm, in the words of a man who once, long ago, had the power to inspire me, before he succumbed to his own avarice and ego:
Keep hope alive! Keep hope alive!
No matter what happens this day, I’ll take heart the way you asked and fight for something far better than the nanny state and the culture of death.
You hang in there Bookworm (and Deana, and Daniel, and Mike Devx, and suek, and 1Lulu and all the other good stalwarts here).
God bless America.
Unfortunately, Obama Citizen of the World invited the REST of the world to vote for him too, so The One could “save the planet”. And perhaps they have rewarded him with over $200 million in illegal donations, SOLICITED by the Obama campaign? Read here: “Obama’s Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Illegal Donations Policy”
Be safe, Book. America’ll need people like you in the future, regardless of which path is taken.
Thank you for this.
“When in the course of human events…”
“Four score and seven years ago…”
“Mr. Gorbachev…”
We will prevail.
Random notes about my voting experience here in Richmond:
Lines were long but they were moving and I brought a book. It took me 1 hour and 10 minutes all together.
I really hate it when people complain about how long it takes to vote. I’m grateful for the right to vote and realize that many people have died for that right.
Our voting site used electronic voting machines. I’m sure different machines are used in different locales but all of these claims about hitting one candidate and the machine “checking-off” another candidate resulting in a vote for the wrong candidate would be highly unlike on these particular machines. You touch the candidates you want and then hit “ok.” The machine takes you to the next screen and asks you to confirm AGAIN. If you are still ok with what the selections are, you just hit “vote.” Pretty straight forward.
Whatever happens, I’m grateful for being a U.S. citizen. It’s a beautiful country with an amazing history and beautiful people. I pray that God is with us, no matter what happens.
Deana
“The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”
Cicero – 55 BC
From ‘The Corner’:
Wall-to-Wall Coverage [Kathryn Jean Lopez]
This just in (from MSNBC): William Ayers has voted. I look forward to his post-election Keith Olbermann interview to come.
UPDATE: But minutes later, Barack Obama votes, same place.
I dunno. I think I’d have made sure I voted before William Ayers showed up. Nail bombs, you know.
Local Chicago talk radio (for now) WND560 is hosting call after call from people reporting examples of voting violations and fraud.
North of us, Wisconsin (which used to be a pretty clean state) is outdoing us – the two major voting centers are Madison (“Berkeley of the Midwest) and socialist Milwaukee.
The Wall Street Journal’s John Fund has a good review of how and why Milwaukee votes the way it does. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122576113489495571.html
Voting in our banana republic has become a farce. For Conservatives, it is one man – one vote. For the Democrats, it is one man – many votes.
Chaos in Philadelphia precints, including Republican election monitors being forcibly ejected from voting sites, leaving only the Democrat monitors to “monitor”.
If you need a spot of encouragement during the day…!
http://www.suitablyflip.com/suitably_flip/2008/11/prediction-mcca.html
>>Cicero – 55 BC>>
Vote for Cicero!!!
Sounds like a conservative to me!!
The suitablyflip link is encouraging, suek!
We can even play with it a little as well. If McCain gets either New Hampshire or Nevada, then we can afford to lose either Virginia or North Carolina, and still win.
Pennsylvania just keeps looking more and more important. I am counting on those “bitter-clingers and redneck racists” to spurn Obama and Murtha. What justice that would be for these two ugly, twisted men.
Eastern Time Zone closing times for key states:
7:00 pm : Indiana, Virginia
7:30 pm : Ohio, North Carolina
8:00 pm : Pennsylvania, Florida, Missouri, New Hampshire
9:00 pm : Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, North Dakota
10:00 pm : Nevada, Montana
Just a reminder and a thought: Don’t worry about the mainstream media bias that will show up, and show up stronger based on their “exit polls”.
And even if you do find yourself paying attention to them… Well, it is FAR better to be us: We’ll be upset and a little down, and then the mainstream slugs will have to suddenly start changing their tune… and then the dismay will begin to show… and they may have to retract one or two “Obama wins”… and WE have moved from disappointment to joy!
But liberals still trust the mainstream media, so they’ll be doing a Snoopy Dance on the Doghouse for hours… and then the dance will stop… and they’ll frown at the TV… and then the Snoopy “BLEAUGH!” and a frantic night tossing and turning in bed, without a wink of sleep. And they will be crushed, absolutely crushed. So, if you decide to pay attention to the silly polls and exit polls… I’ll take our emotional arc any day!
>>Pennsylvania just keeps looking more and more important.>>
Go back to the SuitablyFlip link and go to the main page – he has a weather map – seems like it’s raining in Philadelphia. Not the rest of the state, but in Philadelphia.
Unfortunately, not in SF either. Personally, I’d like about 6″ of snow in the Golden Gate city, but that’s not likely!!
“VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE”
I’m afraid they only let you vote that many times in Chicago if you’re a Democrat.
“Republican election monitors being forcibly ejected from voting sites”
Could you post a link please?
Here it is:
http://townhall.com/blog/g/cf47766b-5a6d-44ab-95e7-ce60631bcadc
Yikes! Thank you, Mr. Lemieux.
Great post Bookworm. Every vote must count.
>> “VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE”
I’m afraid they only let you vote that many times in Chicago if you’re a Democrat. >>
I guffawed at that one, pst314. Couldn’t help myself! Awesome! That sure felt good on a tense day.
A friend sent me a link to a satirical video that I enjoyed immensely. Silly but quite funny, I thought. (“If Obama wins… according to Republicans; If McCain Wins… according to Democrats”)
If you need a break, check it out!
http://wimp.com/politicaltruth/
So, a couple of young white skinheads from the Aryan Nation were standing in front of the entrance to a voting location in Idaho this morning.
They had billy clubs, one holding his club in his hand, ready. Every time a black person walked up, the two white skinheads moved over a bit in his direction. Many of those walking up said it was quite threatening.
Eventually a citizen called it in, and the police finally showed up and escorted them away, because weapons are not permitted in the voting area.
———–
I might have a few details in that story wrong… Let me check again…
Oh, yeah, I had a *few* details a little bit wrong. Here is the corrected real info.
———-
So, a couple of young black militants from the Black Panthers were standing in front of the entrance to a voting location in Philadelphia this morning.
They had billy clubs, one holding his club in his hand, ready. Every time a white person walked up, the two Black Panthers moved over a bit in his direction. Many of those walking up said it was quite threatening.
Eventually a citizen called it in, and the police finally showed up and escorted them away, because weapons are not permitted in the voting area.
———
Many links to the developing story out there, see Drudge, see:
michellemalkin.com/2008/11/04/billy-club-wielding-security-guards-at-philly-polls
Hey –
Does anyone out there know anything about the claim that the President had a group of soldiers return from the Middle East to help with riot control, should they be needed?
I keep seeing references to this on blogs from folks who are on the left but I haven’t heard any reports of this on NPR or seen any articles on line or TV.
Just wondering if I totally missed this.
Deana
I think that we refer to that as having an LSD flashback, Deana. It’s an aging 60s Radical thing.
Deana, I’ve seen it referred to several times by leftists.
I have no idea where it came from since each state’s national guard (and metro area SWAT teams) would be quite capable of putting down riots by unorganized groups.
It may be that some Truther decided that a brigade that returned recently from Iraq came back too close to election day and that Bushitler is holding it in reserve to overturn an Obama win.
Omigaw — I can even get inside their minds! Sometimes I scare myself.
The City of Brotherly Love was roiled in controversy during the 2004 election because of rigged voting machines that showed nearly 2,000 votes for Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry before the polls had opened. A man also used a gun to intimidate poll workers at Ward 30, division 11 in 2004.
Complete lie, Danny. We all know that the Religious Right hacked those machines for Bush in 2004.
At least, that’s what Oz tells us.
Mike, didn’t you comment about the brigade from the US military coming back to “take care of us” after Oz mentioned it?
Does anyone out there know anything about the claim that the President had a group of soldiers return from the Middle East to help with riot control, should they be needed?
I keep seeing references to this on blogs from folks who are on the left but I haven’t heard any reports of this on NPR or seen any articles on line or TV.
Just wondering if I totally missed this.
Deana
It was orginally covered by the Army Times, but Salon.com did a good job filling in the blanks (Such as how/when Posse Commitatus was revoked, including links to the American Conservative and other sources)
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/24/army/
Just today, a Colorado newspaper reported that two additional units will be deployed within the U.S. within the next two years:
“One of our founding touchstones of democracy is that the military is not to be used against the American people. Over a hundred years ago that sentiment was put into law in the Posse Comitatus Act, which prohibited the military from being involved in law enforcement functions,” German said. “Our hope is to find as much information as we can to challenge whether this is appropriate or not and to create some public awareness about what’s going on”
Now the commander of Northern Command claims that at least two more military units will be stationed inside the county in the next two years, contributing to an estimated total of 4,700 specially trained service members.
http://coloradoindependent.com/13321/elite-combat-brigade-for-homeland-security-missions-raises-ire-of-aclu
Deana,
I have this story archived. I can’t find many links to it on a Google search, but I haven’t tried very hard. Is it true, or just a newly-developing urban legend? I’d thought it was a true story, but now I’m uncertain.
I commented on it a few weeks back. The quotes by Col. Cloutier at the end were the worst part of the story for me, personally:
“I can’t think of a more noble mission than this,” said Col. Roger Cloutier, the
brigade’s commander. “We’ve been all over the world during this time of conflict, but now our mission is to take care of citizens at home.”
“I can’t think of a more noble mission”?
My idea of a military is to fight and kill and win, not to perform noble things.
“Our mission is to take care of citizens at home”?
Yikes. My idea of a military is definitely not to “take care of citizens at home”. This is not a country I recognize, when proud Americans think this is a good idea.
Here are some links I found when I put the title ‘Army Taps Brigade for Homeland Defense’ into Google search. There aren’t many found results.
deletefrance.multiply.com/journal/item/2502
http://www.elliscountypress.com/news/126/ARTICLE/2669/2008-10-20.html
Here is the full story text.
———
Army Taps Brigade for Homeland Defense
For the first time, the U.S. Army has designated an active-duty unit stationed at home to serve as a federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.
The 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team, which has spent 35 of the past 60 months in Iraq, began its new assignment on Oct. 1.
It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home, the Army Times reports. “In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas.
“But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts.”
Soldiers with the 1st Brigade Combat Team will be stationed and trained at Fort Stewart, Ga. When its 12-month mission is completed, another yet unnamed active-duty brigade is expected to take over the mission, which will be a permanent one, according to the Army Times.
The unit could be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control, or to deal with the chaos following an earthquake or a chemical, biological, radiological,
or nuclear attack.
“I can’t think of a more noble mission than this,” said Col. Roger Cloutier, the brigade’s commander.
“We’ve been all over the world during this time of conflict, but now our mission is to take care of citizens at home.”
Damn it, I misused the bold tag again! sorry!
I haven’t heard any reports of this on NPR or seen any articles on line or TV.0 Deanna
Democracy Now also covered this, but it’s not as in-depth as the Salon.com piece
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/7/us_army_denies_unit_will_be
It appears to be true.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/
A fuller quote from the colonel from this article:
“I can’t think of a more noble mission than this,” said Cloutier, who took command in July. “We’ve been all over the world during this time of conflict, but now our mission is to take care of citizens at home … and depending on where an event occurred, you’re going home to take care of your home town, your loved ones.”
While soldiers’ combat training is applicable, he said, some nuances don’t apply.
“If we go in, we’re going in to help American citizens on American soil, to save lives, provide critical life support, help clear debris, restore normalcy and support whatever local agencies need us to do, so it’s kind of a different role,” said Cloutier, who, as the division operations officer on the last rotation, learned of the homeland mission a few months ago while they were still in Iraq.
We all know that the Religious Right hacked those machines for Bush in 2004.
At least, that’s what Oz tells us- Ymar
That was included in testimony in a federal court regarding Ohio, 2004.
Ohio could be a problem again:
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/blogs/tokaji/2008/11/jockeying-for-position-in-ohio.html
Two thoughts:
1. President-elect Hopey Changey will immediately cancel this command’s domestic role, so this is a tempest in a teapot. (You’ll note that the tone of concern here is not over Bushitler using the soldiers to put down post-election riots by conservatives.)
2. If Hopey Changey is not elected president and his minions decide to riot nationwide, 4,700 soldiers would not be enough to put them all down — especially on enlightened plantations like Washington, DC., where despite the most draconian gun-control laws in the country, young gang members apparently managed to get access to AK-47s!
Hello!
This is a brigade! A couple thousand soldiers.
This looks to me like extended duty in the US, before their next deployment in 2010. They will be replaced by a permanent brigade, but who knows if they won’t rotate in returning units?
Regular army is deployed now in the US to help with natural disasters.
I’m not sure what difference it makes whether they are regular army or national guard. Both have big guns. Are we to assume that national guard wouldn’t fire on its own people and regular army would?
And if I remember correctly, Johnson federalized the Alabama National Guard, when Wallace refused to deploy them to protect the Selma marchers.
I think Iraq and Afghanistan has shown that National Guardsmen have the level of training to fight in hostile environments.
“Right now, the response force requirement will be an enduring mission. How the [Defense Department] chooses to source that and whether or not they continue to assign them to NorthCom, that could change in the future,” said Army Col. Louis Vogler, chief of NorthCom future operations. “Now, the plan is to assign a force every year.”
Charles,
Yes, it is a tempest in a teapot; I didn’t intend to keep commenting on it. But since this *is* an open thread for today, I’ll submit one more.
My form of conservatism is, every part of a government is supposed to function according to a specific role. Each of the three branches. And the military. Specifically in the case of the military: The role is to prepare to fight, and if to fight, then to win.
Our military is extraordinarily skilled and highly professional. It can accomplish things that no other organization in the world can accomplish.
Due to this incredible skill level and professionalism, we have begun to use our military for tasks that are outside of its role. Humanitarian assistance after the Indonesian tsunami. Hurricane Katrina. And now, a permanent active role within the sovereign boundaries of our country – something NEVER BEFORE envisioned. For me, this is a serious violation of principle.
Why do it? There’s only one reason: Because they’re so good at it. But that merely points out a weakness: No one else is any good at it. For me, that’s not a good enough reason to violate the traditional (and conservative) role of the military. There are non-combat activities I can envision, but *only* if they can be supported as an effective means of *training* for MOS skill or military action.
Sorry about the spate of comments. One more, and it’s a question:
Do you have a non-TV, non mainstream media source, that I can go to to get the latest election results? Reported by precinct, by state, etc, perhaps with commentary?
Thanks in advance!
We need more of this:
Schoolhouse Rock ‘No more kings”.
This is a brigade! A couple thousand soldiers- Brian
One of my sons’ friends was an army ranger and I aked him if he’s concerned about this. His reponse? “For years.”
No more Posse Comitatus.
Do you have a non-TV, non mainstream media source, that I can go to to get the latest election results? Reported by precinct, by state, etc, perhaps with commentary?- Mike
All I have is a link from CNN Tracking Election Problems
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/voter.hotline/
And news that we might expect another legal battle in Ohio.
Do you have a non-TV, non mainstream media source, that I can go to to get the latest election results? Reported by precinct, by state, etc, perhaps with commentary?- Mike
I’ve seen a link to election day problems and news about litigation, but no returns
One more post on exit polls. Some info:
(Using DOT-COM to avoid Book’s moderation on too many links)
From: campaignspot.nationalreview-DOT-COM
08:32 – AP doing exit polling in Stafford. Talking 4 to 1 to minorities over whites at a Republican precinct (Falmouth). Expect it to be skewed. Don’t trust the exit polls as they start to trickle out.
Also From: campaignspot.nationalreview-DOT-COM
Exit Polls Are Out. Don’t Celebrate Yet.
Gawker has the first round of state exit poll numbers. I know I said I was going to be skeptical either way, but looks like we’re in for a late night.
Obama by 4 in Pennsylvania, by 2 in Virginia, trailing by 2 in North Carolina, leading by 1 in Florida, leading by 1 in Ohio.
Drudge has pure exit poll results analysis, but we better hope it’s spin:
EXIT POLLS CLAIM ‘OBAMA +15′ IN PA… DEVELOPING…
SENATE: DEMS SEE 58 SEATS; EXIT POLLS SHOW OBAMA BIG
Gawker: gawker.com/5076425/state-exit-poll-numbers-are-tighter-than-recent-polling has this, which appears to refute Drudge.
Pennsylvania: Obama +4%
(Gawker has only a png image, very frustrating, so visit it.)
———-
I have to stick with my premise: Exit polls overstate Democrat majorities, just as the phone polls turnout models overweight for Democrat advantage. We’ll see!
Mike, after reading your comment, I see your point. The U.S. military does have a specific role — destroy our enemies in combat abroad — that is being morphed into some sort of an armed Red Cross.
And on further thought, I can see where Obama might not change the role of this command. If he follows through with some of his more radical notions, there will be an increase in civil discontent that could invite an internal military response.
Given Obama’s affection for coercive forms of government, this brigade could be turned on conservatives.
I certainly would not want to see U.S. Army units turned on U.S. civilians of any political stripe.
Thank you for the link, Oz.
I just wondered why I had neither seen nor heard a single reference to this anywhere.
I had to laugh when I read the salon and the actual Army Times article. All of the references to this that I had read on the blogs made it sound so dark and nefarious, as if the soldiers were armed and ready to do battle today if anyone dared to vote for Obama.
Certainly this event is something to note and consider. I agree with Mike D – this isn’t want I think of as the goal of a military.
But it isn’t as draconian as it was painted.
Deana
Anyone see the irony here?
Liberals should see a kinder, gentler army helping clear brush and bring foodstuff to people in a disaster as a good thing. More helping little old ladies here means fewer causing trouble overseas.
Here I am, arguing no big deal, breaking the tradition of 100 years.
But it was the Ohio National Guard that shot the students at Kent State. So I’m not sure I’d take too much comfort from who is pointing the gun at you.
Liberals should see a kinder, gentler army helping clear brush and bring foodstuff to people in a disaster as a good thing. 0 Brian
Nobody should see this as a good thing.
But yes, it stated with LBJ in 1967, when assisted by an Army task force, he established the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders, which called for the use of military force to squelch civil disturbances. Three years later, four students were killed at Kent State when the Ohio National Guard fired at unarmed protesters.
In 1984, The Rex-84 “readiness exercise” program wass conducted by 34 federal departments and agencies, reportedly to control illegal aliens crossing the Mexican/U.S. border, while also testing military readiness to round up and detain citizens in case of massive civil unrest.
In 1998, World Net Daily’s Geoff Metcalf wrote, “The U.S. Army director of resource management has confirmed the validity of a memorandum relating to the establishment of a civilian inmate labor program under development by the Department of Army,” before validating Rep. Henry Gonzalez’s 1994 statement, that “The truth of the matter is that you do have those standby provisions, and the statutory emergency plans are there whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism, apprehend, invoke the military, and arrest Americans and hold them in detention camps.”
Once again, the way you vew such things is more of a question of libertarian vs authoritarian mindset.
Democrat and Republican Presdeitns are both guilty.
And Posse Comitatus, which was abolished in 2007, was a GOOD thing.
LBJ federalized the National Guard troops in 1965, and it wasn’t the first time they were federalized. Eisenhower did it in 1957. Kennedy federalized the Alabama National Guard in 1963.
NYTimes article in 1988 about Quayle:
Does everything have to be a conspiracy with you Ozzie?
I think we are making a distinction that doesn’t fit the current model. The National Guard will continue to be used in front line defense. Gone are the days of a large standing army.
In fact, I would argue, it is a good thing to require regular army to perform regular duty in the states. What we don’t want to create is an Imperial Army, distinct from the “citizen soldier” status of the National Guard. All branches of service are “citizen soldiers”.
And the Ohio National Guard was called out by the governor of Ohio.
Ozzie,
According to Wiki:
As of 2008, these changes have been repealed in their entirety, reverting to the original 1878 wording of the Posse Comitatus Act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
According to Wiki:
As of 2008, these changes have been repealed in their entirety, reverting to the original 1878 wording of the Posse Comitatus Act.
Is Wiki reliable?
This is from the American Conservative, April, 2007 (regarding the Defense Authorization Act of 2006)
Working for the Clampdown
What might the president do with his new power to declare martial law?
The Defense Authorization Act of 2006, passed on Sept. 30, empowers President George W. Bush to impose martial law in the event of a terrorist “incident,” if he or other federal officials perceive a shortfall of “public order,” or even in response to antiwar protests that get unruly as a result of government provocations.
The media and most of Capitol Hill ignored or cheered on this grant of nearly boundless power. But now that the president’s arsenal of authority is swollen and consecrated, a few voices of complaint are being heard. Even the New York Times recently condemned the new law for “making martial law easier.”
It only took a few paragraphs in a $500 billion, 591-page bill to raze one of the most important limits on federal power. Congress passed the Insurrection Act in 1807 to severely restrict the president’s ability to deploy the military within the United States. The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 tightened these restrictions, imposing a two-year prison sentence on anyone who used the military within the U.S. without the express permission of Congress. But there is a loophole: Posse Comitatus is waived if the president invokes the Insurrection Act.
for more:
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2007/apr/23/00026/
Heading down to the polling place to turn my vote-by-mail ballot.
This is my official protest to vote by mail.
They have one place (the fire station) where you can drop your letter into a box if you don’t want to mail it.
Why should I trust my precious vote to the US Post Office? (Even though Washington is one of the blueist states in the country)
There is a governor race to vindicate though! The man (Dino Rossi) who was defeated by ACORN fraud is running again.
Does everything have to be a conspiracy with you Ozzie?- Brian
It’s a fact that the Army, for the first time since the Civil War, will have a brigade permanantly patroling U.S. Streets.
Laws have been changed, dissent has been criminalized and civil liberties are in jeopardy.
Thomas Jefferson said that “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.”
James Madison said “The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted.”
They worried about an all-powerful government, as well.
Liberatarians fret over matters like this. Authoritarians don’t bat an eye,
It’s a fact that the Army, for the first time since the Civil War, will have a brigade permanantly patroling U.S. Streets.
That’s not a fact.
>>or even in response to antiwar protests that get unruly as a result of government provocations.<<
Now there’s a sentence that deserves parsing. “Unruly?” (What does that mean? Code Pink shaking old-lady dust on recruiting officers? Molotov cocktails? Arson? Assaults? Drive-bys?)
“…as a result of government provocations?” (Is that as in, “You’re making me behave badly!”Or, “You didn’t stop the war when I demanded you stop it!”)
I’ll take an “explanation” like that seriously when the person offering it defines his terms.
Too late now, but this is really scary.
Redistribution of Wealth
Ozzie,
Wiki links to the actual act.
The changes described above were repealed in their entirety by HR 4986: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008
Text of H.R. 4986: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-4986
Wait a minute, Ozzie.
You say that this means that we will have a brigade permanantly patroling U.S. Streets.
But that is not what the article in the Army Times says. They are training for it but it isn’t like the towns around Fort Stewart, Georgia, are going to have troops on their street. Again, I’m not belittling the concern about this but goodness, let’s refrain from the hyperbole.
And one other thing: I’ve noticed that you keep saying that dissent is criminalized. Would you provide some examples?
Thanks.
Deana
>>Text of H.R. 4986: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008>>
That must be wrong, Rock…that would mean that it was passed by the House. In fact, that would mean that it couldn’t be passed unless the Senate passed it. You mean, all Bush did was sign the bill after it was passed?
Whatever did Bush blackmail them with to make them give him all that power?
I would also point out that even if the military were ordered to act contrary to the oath to defend the Constitution from enemies, both foreign and domestic, a large number would refuse.
The vets in this country greatly outnumber those serving.
While I am a vet and a conservative, with libertarian leanings, I am hardly authoritarian.
This is a simple matter of projection. Obama has certainly tried to use the force of Government to silence his critics.
McCain has not.
Some networks are calling Pennsylvania for Obama, but based *solely* on exit polls.
That’s ominous, but I refuse to rely on them.
Florida at 31% precincts reporting is still 53-47% in favor of Obama, but his lead keeps slowly shrinking.
No good news from any battleground state *yet*.
Check this out
Link
sarah p Says:
October 27, 2008 at 5:04 amOk, I want to clear my conscious a little. Hopefully you could make a blog post to help some fellow clinton supporters out.I work for a campaign and can’t wait for this week to be over.I was doing it for a job. I was not a fan of any candidate but over time grew to love HRC.The internal campaign idea is to twist, distort, humiliate and finally dispirit you.We pay people and organize people to go to all the online sites and “play the part of a clinton or mccain supporter who just switched our support for obama”We do this to stifle your motivation and to destroy your confidence.We did this the whole primary and it worked.Sprinkle in mass vote confusion and it becomes bewildering. Most people lose patience and just give up on their support of a candidate and decide to just block out tv, news, websites, etc.This surprisingly has had a huge suppressing movement and vote turnout issues.Next, we infiltrate all the blogs and all the youtube videos and overwhelm the voting, the comments, etc. All to continue this appearance of overwhelming world support.People makes posts to the effect that the world has “gone mad”
Thats the intention. To make you feel stressed and crazy and feel like the world is ending.
We have also had quite a hand in skewing many many polls, some we couldn’t control as much as we would have liked. But many we have spoiled over. Just enough to make real clear politics look scarey to a mccain supporter. Its worked, alough the goal was to appear 13-15 points ahead.
see, the results have been working. People tend to support a winner, go with the flow, become “sheeple”
The polls are roughly 3-5 points in favor of Barack. Thats due to our inflation of the polls and pulling in the sheeple.
Our donors, are the same people who finance the MSM. Their interests are tied, Barack then tends to come across as teflon. Nothing sticks. And trust, there were meetings with Fox news. The goal was to blunt them as much as possible. Watch Bill Oreilly he has become much more diplomatic and “fair and balanced” and soft. Its because he wants to retain the #1 spot on cable news and to do that he has to have access to the Obama campaign and we worked hard at stringing him a long and keeping him soft for an interview swap. It worked and now he is anticipating more access. So he is playing it still soft.
This is why nothing sticks.
The operation is massive, the goal is to paint a picture that is that of a winner, regardless of the results.
There is no true inauguration draft or true grant park construction going on. There will be a party, but we are boasting beyond the truth to make it seem like the election is wrapped up.
Our goal is to continue to make you lose your moral. We worked hard at persuasion and paying off and timing and playing the right political numbers to get key republican endorsements to make it seem even more like it was over and the world was coming to an end for you all.
There is a huge staff of people working around the clock, watching every site, blogs, etc. We flood these sites. We have had a goal to overwhelm.
THe US military, if ordered to forcibly disarm the American population, will probably obey in a lack luster manner. If the US military is ordered to suppress peaceful American demonstrators, then they will probably “lose” those orders and say that they lack clear communications and wish to further “clarify” the orders they have been given. The US military, essentially, would make themselves undeployable for operations if given an order that they refuse to follow but they will never be open about their disobedience.
Soldiers can and often do disobey direct orders. It is just that they do so in very creative ways that don’t damage the chain of command. It is often never a question of, like you see on Hollywood, where the commander demands with the question “are you going to disobey a direct order”.
Obama will prefer to use lawyers, as they are more loyal idealogically and easier to use under the table as a sort of “social justice” campaign, than the US military.
People like, Oz, for example, has never actually seen what happens in military dictatorships so it is hard for people like them to judge reality from fiction in those types of scenarios. History has shown me plenty of things that I needed to see, however.
Once Obama’s healthcare system starts going full steam, we’ll be needing humanitarian help from the US military for the system will break down like in Third World nations.
You say that this means that we will have a brigade permanantly patroling U.S. Streets, But that is not what the article in the Army Times says, – Deanna
Did you miss this part? From the Army Times article:
“After 1st BCT finishes its dwell-time mission, expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one.”
Today, a Colorado Newspaper reported that two additonal military units will be deployed within the U.S. in the next two years:
“Now the commander of Northern Command claims that at least two more military units will be stationed inside the county in the next two years, contributing to an estimated total of 4,700 specially trained service members.”
http://coloradoindependent.com/13321/elite-combat-brigade-for-homeland-security-missions-raises-ire-of-aclu
“And one other thing: I’ve noticed that you keep saying that dissent is criminalized. Would you provide some examples?” – Deanna
In Oct, 2001, John Dean reported that, due to the wording, one of the “unintended consequences” would be to equate dissidents with terrorists.
When the Patriot Act was renewed, formed Reagan Adminstration Official Paul Craig Roberts sounded an even louder alarm.
And sure enough, protesters have been charged as terrorists.
Moreover, the Maryland state police disclosed that 53 nonviolent anti-war and anti-death penalty activists were tracked under the state’s terrorism surveillance program, and that their names were added to the state’s and the National Security Agency’s database.
Millions of acvists have been put on no-fly lists and in 2002, Minnesota changed the legal definition of terrorism to include actions “intended to interfere with the conduct of government or the right of lawful assembly.”
Videotape from Saint Paul shows police surrounding people in a park and placing them all under arrest, in case they MIGHT protest.
Would you provide some examples?- Deanna
This is the tape I was talking about. The guy who taped it hid it so it would not be confiscated.
At first, it seems like no big deal. It’s actually pretty boring, in fact.
But by the time you get to the end, it’s hard to believe:
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/99433/incredible_documentary_footage_of_mass_arrest_in_st._paul/
Ozzie –
No. I didn’t miss that part.
But you are saying that we are going to have brigades “permanently patroling U.S. streets” and that is not true. The article says that they MAY be used but they aren’t out armed and on the streets unless it is deemed “necessary,” which in my book is where the concern comes in.
I simply am requesting that you refrain from using scare terms and exaggerations. It tends to get in the way of reasonable discussion.
As for your examples of criminalizing dissent, you say that protesters have been charged as terrorists. You don’t provide an example and that’s fine, it’s not a criticism – we can have this discussion later since we are all watching the election.
As for millions of activists being placed on no-fly lists – if millions of people aren’t able to fly, why are our airports so crowded all the time? Wouldn’t there be a LOT more evidence that all of these people can’t fly?
I appreciate the information you provided me but I know that you have a habit of making fairly exaggerated claims and then providing cites that supposedly prove your claims but when I listen to or read them, I discover that they don’t exactly match what you say. I’m not denying what you are saying – I’m simply saying that I’m withholding judgment. I don’t have energy tonight to post AND monitor all the election stuff.
I’d be happy to discuss this later.
Deana
>>It is often never a question of, like you see on Hollywood, where the commander demands with the question “are you going to disobey a direct order”.>>
On the other hand, a soldier given an order which s/he feels is illegal is permitted to respond with a “Sir…will you please give me that order in writing…Sir.” Which can result in second thoughts on the part of the person giving the order…
Hey Ozzie,
Are these examples of the type of “dissenters” that you’re afraid might have been “criminalized”? I’m just wondering what kind of dissent you think might just qualify as “giving aid and comfort” to our enemies. Does “Support Resistance in Iraq” qualify?
Zombie’s Hall of Shame
And this is only ONE of “zombies” photo galleries. Take a look at some of the “anti-war” rallies. When does “dissent” become the “enemy within”?
I think I’m going to bed. The wine and the ice cream are making me sleepy!
It appears that Obama is likely to win this election. I truly would love to share in the excitement that so many Americans have – it feels awkward, actually, to not be able to participate with them.
But my fear about what an Obama win means for the long-term well-being of all Americans is something I can’t shake. I hope to heaven I am wrong but I have this feeling that we are about to set our selves on a course that will lead to a severe self-inflicted wound. We just don’t know where the wound will be.
Good night all! And get some rest. We all are going to need it, I think.
Deana
No rest for me yet. I’m assuming we now face President-Elect Obama.
But I’m not giving in yet, foolish as that may be. I want to wait until the actual returns are in on Ohio, at least to a 60% precinct level.
Virginia: Obama is up 20,000 votes with 89% in. It’s his first lead of the night.
North Carolina: McCain is up by 200 with 81% in. It’s his first lead of the night.
Indiana: McCain is up by only 4,000 with 88% in. Narrower and narrower.
Florida is 51%-49% for Obama with 62% in. It has been narrowing all night, but very very slowly.
Pennsylvania is totally dominated by Obama, it appears. 58-41% for Obama with 65% in. It’s been narrowing a small amount all night, but that gap is shocking. I suppose these results mean that that outrageous, sickening monster Murtha survived as well.
Ohio has been narrowing slowly but is still Obama 52-47% with 37% in.
I’m waiting on all of these but Pennsylvania. I suppose I should trust that the networks know their business, in comparing actual votes and exit polls precinct by key precinct the way they do. But I’m not throwing it in just yet. It looks dark, but of the above states only Pennsylvania is guaranteed lost.
Outliers might still occur among the vote! (Slim hope I know, but I am not throwing in the towel.)
Likely President-Elect Obama will bring change. I appear to be left with only the hope that it will be a change I can accept. What a slim hope.