It’s Obama’s problem now
Bookworm on Nov 05 2008 at 10:51 am | Filed under: Uncategorized
Russia didn’t wait very long. It just announced that it’s setting up missiles on Poland’s border. I assume Obama will get the leaders of the two nations (plus NATO leaders) together for a nice little coffee klatch.
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Come on!
This can only be a sign of the respect the world has for us now that Sen. Obama is the president-elect! Everyone loves us and rainbows are popping up like daisies!
I’m glad 52% of the electorate had a blissful night. The hangover has begun.
Bookworm –
I know! I know! I saw that news this morning and my jaw dropped. I mean, that came less than 12 hours after the election results were announced. I thought that at least this type of thing wouldn’t start happening until late January next year.
I guess we should at least give Sen. Biden props for being correct.
But let’s start healing the world and go ahead and support Barney Frank’s recommendation of cutting the military by 25%. I’m sure Poland won’t mind at all . . .
Deana
Watch the stock market as well. Now that all the indecision is gone, there is supposed to be a bounce. Doesn’t seem to be happening! Down 200 at this point.
The Obama/Putin coffee klatch! Wonderful, and *so very* European!
Sigh. We could’ve seen this:
Putin is sitting alone at a table at the outdoor cafe. Sarah Palin walks up and takes the empty seat, and immediately picks up the doily on the table before her chair. “What in the hell is *this*?” she says, and tosses it aside.
Putin finishes sipping his vodka-laden coffee, and sets it upon his doily. “Now, then, Vice-President Elect…”
Sarah interrupts. “Just a moment, Vlad-baby. I’m starving.” She signals to the waiter, who gently glides over. “Garcon, I’d like a mooseburger, half-pound please. American cheese.”
Garcon: “We have no… MOOSE-burgers, madam. And we certainly don’t carry American cheese.”
Sarah: “I see. Vlad-honey, you’ve failed to do your homework. Let’s try this again, in oh, say, a week? See ya later, sweet-cheeks. Call me.” She stands up and purposefully strides away.
In June, while making the case for John MCain, Joe Lieberman appeared on one of the Sunday morning shows and said that all new presidents are tested early, and he pointed to George Bush and Sept. 11 as proof.
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/infowarscom-flashback-lieberman-said-that-our-enemies-will-test-the-new-president/1452941163/?icid=VIDURVNWS10
Does anyone have an idea of what the stock market has done after the election of other presidents?
Obviously, stock market fluctuations can occur for a variety of reasons but you would think that just removing a certain level of uncertainty, which tends to have a negative impact on stock values, would have led to an upswing in or at least a stabilization of the market.
Maybe we’ll get really lucky and Ravanna, world-renowned economic expert, will pay us a little visit and cast her pearls of wisdom on this issue.
Deana
P.S. Isn’t it funny? I’ve been visiting Bookworm’s blog for several years now and I don’t have any idea what the vast majority of her visitors do for a living or their areas of expertise or study. People usually just come here, discuss matters, reason, and provide citations to evidence.
I strongly suspect that quite a few people who are on this site hold numerous degrees and extensive professional experience. And yet, rarely do we ever have someone come here and insist that they know more than anyone else on a particular issue.
But when they do, they are liberals. Somehow, I doubt that is a coincidence.
Ozzie! I’m glad to see you’re still around. Genuinely.
I’m looking forward to burying my “concern troll” concern.
Ozzie! I’m glad to see you’re still around. Genuinely.
I’m looking forward to burying my “concern troll” concern- Mike
I’m just concerned, Mike, though if you saw me between 6- 8.am, you might also adequately describe me as a “troll”.
I hope you pointed out to your husband this morning that he was right – the rest of the world has IMMEDIATELY started loving us again!
Well!!!
Today IS a red letter day!! Ozzie made a point and then provided a citation that actually is consistent with her point!!
I need to sit down. It’s all just a little too much.
Yes, Ozzie, presidents are often tested. The other night, Fox News went through a long list of “early tests” of presidents.
The difference is that Biden went on to say that, ” . . . it’s not going to be apparent initially; it’s not going to be apparent that we’re right.”
Sen. Lieberman’s point was that we need someone who is experienced and is ready on day one.
To borrow a phrase from Biden, mark my words: Obama is going to be tested. Not just once or twice but multiple times. Countries around the world who want America defeated actually did something that many in this country did not: they paid attention to Obama, his history, and what he supports.
They know he does not have a coherent defense strategy or ideology. So they are going to have to “generate crises” to see whether Obama and the Democrats will mount any sort of relevant response or whether they will overreact to compensate for the impression that he is weak.
All of it is a concern.
Deana
I haven’t mentioned this, and I’ve been wondering.
WolfHowling used to be a wonderful voice to read. His blog has been silent for three weeks now. Does anyone know what has happened to him?
Oh, but this is just PERFECT!!
Bush wants to “reach across the aisle”…..
Obama needs foreign policy experience…..
The President should ask the President-elect to take a little trip to Russia and work the kind of magic he suggested he could work, back when he was simply a candidate…….
Problem solved, I’m just sure.
Here are the “fun facts” that I have been tossing out to my many hopey-changey-soul-salvationy ‘Friscan Friends.
1. Russia is going to annex South Ossetia
2. Iran is going to get Nukes (or more specifically we won’t do anything to stop them).
3. Syria is going to move back into Lebanon
4. Lebanon is going to provoke another war with Israel
5. China will extend its influence into North Korea
6. Turkey invades Kurdistan.
sigh.
On the other hand…maybe now we can stop with the “America is a racist country” nonsense? Please?
Sen. Lieberman’s point was that we need someone who is experienced and is ready on day one. – Deanna
Right, but Biden also said that “they’re going to find out that this guy’s got steel in his spine,” which people often conveniently leave off.
In context:
“We’re going to face a major international challenge. Because they’re going to want to test him, just like they did young John Kennedy. They’re going to want to test him. And they’re going to find out this guy’s got steel in his spine,”
Actually, Ozzie, the more I think about it, the more I realize that Sept. 11th wasn’t so much a test as it was an act of war.
And to the left’s eternal shame, they honestly thought that we should simply consider that test or act of war (whatever you prefer to call it) as “payback” for all of America’s “sins.”
We’ll see what they think after each of Obama’s tests.
Deana
Boy, that Joe Biden sure can call ‘em!
As soon as Bush took office, according to Joe, a flurry of calls went out from Al Qaeda to its U.S. operatives: “How long before you guys can put together a dramatic test of Bush’s balls?”
“About eight months,” came back the answer.
“OK, boys,” Bin Laden replied. “Just make sure that while it’s spectacular it forces Bush to take the coward’s way out. I don’t want this thing backfiring by hitting too hard at the degenerate Yankees.”
Yep, September 11 was to test Georgie boy.
Now using Biden (and Ozzie’s) reasoning, I guess we can expect something pretty damned big to test Obama.
That kind of reasoning — and whatever test the punks throw at us — would be hilarious if it weren’t so damned scary.
Now using Biden (and Ozzie’s) reasoning, I guess we can expect something pretty damned big to test Obama. – Charles
I thought that this was the reasoning behind this post, that Joe Biden was right and that”Russia didnt wait very long” BECAUSE Obama was elected.
I’m assuming that, by the tenor of some posts, people believe that if John McCain had been elected, this would not be happening.
Yet, back in June, Lieberman also admitted all modern presidents are tested early on and that Bush was “tested” by 9/11.
And for some reason, those who quote Biden conveniently leave off the part where he says that, when tested, America’s enemies will discover that Obama has steel in his spine.
Guys, let’s not lose track of the point that Ozzie was making. Which I think is:
“Both Lieberman and Biden said that our enemies will test the new president”.
You can’t argue against that.
Biden says that Obama will pass the test. Fine.
Ozzie: My argument would be that the degree to which our enemies will feel free to test is a measure of *their* opinion of Obama’s “steel”. So the fact that Russia is so willing to be provocative can be seen as a sign that they think that Obama is weak.
I personally believe that Obama will have a meek response and that will hurt both our country and the world.
And yes, 9/11 *was* a test. It was also an act of war. History will say that Bush passed that test with flying colors.
Where was the steel manufactured?
Pittsburgh or Magnitogorsk?
For those suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome, who wish to blame the fellow for the jihadist assaults on America, and our oh-so unfavorable perception throughout the enlightened world, I offer this commentary from
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-united-states-of-audacity/
You have to remember that the planning for the September 11 attacks took place while a loveable, charismatic, I-feel-your-pain Democrat occupied the White House. Clinton was an internationalist, multilateralist, militarily-ambiguous (at the best of times) Kyoto believer. None of his charm, popularity, and bleeding heartedness had made him any less satanic in the eyes of Osama and Co. Similarly, the Iranian hostage taking crisis of 1979 took place under the watch of a sincere, righteous, and devout believer in human rights, justice, and morality in international politics.
Hard to argue.
The problem with testing Obama right away is that it makes no sense.
He is the president-ELECT, not the sitting president.
George Bush still has two months in which to prop up our allies and take those measures that will protect us, however feebly, from Obama’s many concessions and surrenders to come.
If I were the Russians (and the Iranians, Chinese, North Koreans, Venezuelans, Hamas/Islamofascists and Syrians) I’d just wait the two months to begin the feasting.
Should 9-11 be considered a “test” of the Bush Presidency?
My opinion is that Bin Laden was simply moving forward with his plans, and the time for the strike had arrived: The plan begun in 1998 had reached maturity. Further delay would only heighten risk of discovery of the plot.
If I recall, Bin Laden wished to provoke a massive military response of the type that would engulf the U.S. (and Europe) into a war against all of Islam. The purpose there was two-fold: To bankrupt the U.S. in a widespread war, and to unite the Islamic world behind his jihadist Caliphate vision.
Perhaps Bin Laden also viewed the 2001 Bush Presidency as weak and worthy of a “test”, but I really don’t think it would have mattered, as I think Bin Laden was moving forward with his plans regardless.
Mike Devx: you are right. 9/11 should not be considered a test since it had been planned for some time.
he kind of test we are talking about is more of a conscious: “let’s see what he does when we do *this*”. And 9/11 wasn’t that.
Mr. Mantel: I think that doing it now makes sense. And puts BO in a bad spot. If he makes a statement too strong and too early then he can be seen as inappropriately assuming the mantel of president. If he doesn’t say anything, then when they do *more* post 1/20/2009 then Russia can say “you didn’t complain before?”.
I think it is fairly clever on
Putin…I mean Medvedev’s part.No-no-no-no-no-noooo, Deana: 9/11 wasn’t a test, it wasn’t a tragedy, it wasn’t an act of war…it was a misunderstanding. Nothing that a coffee klatch couldn’t have solved. And remember, blame Bush!
MikeD – I seem to remember reading that the planning for 9/11 actually began earlier than 1998, as it was said to have been a continuation of the “Bojinka” plot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oplan_Bojinka that occurred in 1995. I could be wrong about that, though.
It’s a shame that current Israeli leadership (primarily Olmert and Livni) is so desperately, pathetically weak. They won’t be able to solidify new leadership until Bush’s term has passed.
Hopefully Olmert/Livni will enhance Israel’s position by surreptitiously striking a deal with Bush for a massive flow of new armaments into Israel, of any and all sorts possible, to prepare for the massive crisis that is looming. None of them can possibly wish to leave such things up to an Obama Administration.
The very future of Israel itself is at stake.
jlibson,
Your list in #12 is compelling. I’d add to the list:
7. China begins to assert pressure on Tiawan, with subtle but compelling provocations, none of which *demand* Western response. They’ve been coveting Tiawan for such a long time, and it’s hard to see how much longer they will wait to commence the plan (among many such prepared plans) that meets the current situation.
jlibson, thanks for the comment — you’re right. The Russians have always played mind games and played them well. They’ve certainly maneuvered Obama into just the pickle you described.
The only way around your scenario would be if Obama were to let Bush carry the water on this and then back him up by saying, “What he said.”
But since Obama doesand’t believe in a strong defense, that’s not likely.
=SIGH= Rove’s got nothing compared to Putin.
Mike,
There is going to be a cascade effect, isn’t there? Like dogs nipping at the heels of a far larger prey, our enemies are going to be nipping at Obama.
Since he lacks conviction or a coherent philosophy, I fear that some of our allies are in for threats to their very existence.
If Israel or Taiwan falls on Obama’s watch, it wll be the end of our country as we know it. The world will become a truly mad-dog place, with everybody scrambling to acquire nukes, or kill the Jews, or institute shar’ia or bestow the benefits of socialism.
In other words, anarchy and savagery brought on by the removal of the United States of America as the true guarantor of internatonal order.
Oz, how come your Religious Right failed to rig the election for McCain? The least they could have done was take Florida, right?
As for the stock market, it is not all that important. What is more important is the fact that CEOs, executives, businesses, and boards will start cutting future spending, jobs, expansion, and various other things that will led to consumer high prices and loss of jobs.
Let’s see if a Great Depression can be engineered.
Yes, Bush is still the president, praise Allah (may peace and blessings be upon Him).
So, like Reagan when the Soviets tried to intimidate his plan for protecting Europe from medium-range Soviet missiles, Bush hopefully will cram it up their asses and call their bluff. Perhaps placing another anti-missile complex in Hungary will get their attention. He’ll have to hurry though, because Obama the Peaceful is soon to get Europe overrun.
Oz, how come your Religious Right failed to rig the election for McCain? The least they could have done was take Florida, right?- Ymar
There were shennigans in a couple states, but Mike Connell, the man who Steven Sponamore said was behind the alleged hacking in 2000 and 2004 testified in federal court on Monday, making it highly unlikely he’d head up similar projects, if, in fact, he ever did..
Plus, the Obama campaign was onto problems in Ohio in 2004 and printed out detailed information on what to watch out for this time around.
Election activists also took the lead, with a nationwide “video the vote” project, while law suits allowed voters who were wrongly purged from the rolls a way to get back on, without resorting to provisional ballots, which have been tossed in the past.
Then, too, this election did not come down to one or two states was simply to big to steal.
I hope that much-needed reform is on the way and that hackable electronic voting machines and optic scannners fall by the wayside.
I also hope that the days of appealing to Evangelicals to win elections will fall by the wayside and was heartened to discover that mainstream Christian churches (those of the non-End Times persuasion) have begun to fight back.
I agree that “non-End Times” mainstream Christian churches have begun to fight back.
Did you see how the Catholics and traditional black Protestants were able to tell the California Supreme Court to go bugger itself with its most recent emanation and penumbra?
Go, non-evangelical Christians, go!
Did you see how the Catholics and traditional black Protestants were able to tell the California Supreme Court to go bugger itself with its most recent emanation and penumbra- Charles
The Mormons were the big $$$ behind Prop. 8.
But you dont have to appeal to Catholics or Black Protestants in order to become president of the U.S.
Yet the Evangelicals have been crucial.
Now that suburban Republicans are walking away from the GOP, and traditional Christians are fighting back, maybe the GOP will rethink that strategy?
In a recent poll, only 12% thought Sarah Palin was the future of the GOP, while 29% thought Mitt Romeny was.
I’d prefer Romney, even though the Mormons shouldn’t be fretting about gays in CA.
Yep, Mormons, God bless ‘em, were the big money, and the Catholics, and black and ethnic traditionals (Filipinos, Koreans, Mexicans) were the big voters.
Since there are 534,000 Mormons in California, I’d say they have every right to fret about the homosexual lobby trying to distort the definition of marriage.
This is happening because the US has been weakened over the last eight years by the Bush government’s policies. It has lost its place in the world, which Obama will try to restore. A great analysis of this, below, by Nouriel Roubini, the economist who predicted the financial crisis long before it happened. I recommend you read it.
http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/253323/the_decline_of_the_american_empire
Ravana:
I have a very simple question. I hope you will see fit to answer it:
How will Obama try to restore America’s place in the world? Please tell us, even if the details are scanty, what he can and will do to achieve this end.
Also, while you’re at it, please tell us what “America’s place in the world” means to you.
Thank you.
>> It has lost its place in the world, which Obama will try to restore. >>
I too haven’t a clue what this statement means. I prefer the place we held in the world as of 1991, but I doubt that that “place” is the place that Ravana is referring to.
I doubt Obama intends to “restore” America to any place in the world, and he would actually be wise to not even try. There is no going back, for one, there is only going forward. (It’s been said a man can never step into a river twice, for the second time, he’s not the same man, and it’s not the same river.)
If the statement means a return to Clintonian foreign policies and international and trade policies, well, I scarcely see anything in Obama’s past, his allies, or his campaign, that would indicate that.
As to the potential decline of the “American Empire”, well, I fear the occurrence of that. It’s entirely possible. We seem to have been living for quite some time within an illusory financial house of cards. The credit crunch catastrophe might be only first of many shocking blows based on our very unsteady financial situation. No guarantees or fear-mongering here… but I do worry about it a great deal.
And I fail to see how pure Statist solutions can do anything but worsen the problems.
Oz -
You need to give thugs some respect.
Do you honestly believe that the likes of Chavez, Kim Jung Il, Medvedev, and Mr. “Israel-is-a-stinking-corpse” Ahmadinejad are going to believe Joe Biden’s claim that Obama has a “spine of steel” after listening to Obama explicitly say that he is willing to sit down and talk to them, without preconditions?
If he is this “man of steel,” capable of meeting any test that one or more of these characters might cook up for him, then why were several groups (groups that we should be extremely wary of) so eager to send signals that they approved of Obama and wanted him to be president?
So, in short, I did not forget Biden’s assurance of Obama’s spinal composition. It’s just that that really wasn’t what was relevant.
Deana
Deana:
Barak Obama wears tassels on his shoes.
Tassels!
I ask you, how can any self-respecting mass murderer or Marxist thug take a fellow like that seriously?
Bush kept us safe by taking the fight to the enemy in Iraq, Afghanistan and all over the African continent, wherever they tried to regroup. Under Obama, I fear now that the enemy will bring the fight to us. Even Ravana’s isolated Sri Lanka will suffer the effects, as neighboring India already has.
Ravana: In the spring of 2001 the Bush Admin. sent a team to Congress to warn it about the sub-prime fiasco to come. Then 11 times more they tried to warn Congress. What was the response from Congress? “Get lost, we know what we’re doing.”
I bring you liberal economics. (pardon the oxymoron)