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	<title>Comments on: Can&#8217;t fight group think</title>
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	<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/</link>
	<description>Conservatives deal with facts and reach conclusions; liberals have conclusions and sell them as facts.</description>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/comment-page-1/#comment-41423</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=5185#comment-41423</guid>
		<description>&lt;B&gt;In 1994, for example, three residents of Berkeley, Calif., protested a federal Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) plan to build subsidized housing for the homeless and mentally ill in their neighborhood. The residents wrote protest letters and organized their neighbors. HUD officials investigated the Berkeley residents for &quot;discrimination&quot; against the disabled and threatened them with $100,000 in fines. The government offered to drop their investigation (and the fines) if the neighborhood residents promised to stop speaking against the federal housing project.

Heather Mac Donald reported in the Wall Street Journal that one lawyer supporting HUD’s position argued that if the Berkeley residents’ protest letters resulted in the &quot;denial of housing to a protected class of people, it ceases to be protected speech and becomes proscribed conduct.&quot; This is classic Hegelian-Marxist thinking -- actions (including free speech) that &quot;objectively&quot; harm people in a subordinate class are unjust (and should be outlawed). Eventually, hud withdrew its investigation. Nevertheless, the Berkeley residents brought suit against the HUD officials and won. &lt;/b&gt;

It is not just the kids, Book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>In 1994, for example, three residents of Berkeley, Calif., protested a federal Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) plan to build subsidized housing for the homeless and mentally ill in their neighborhood. The residents wrote protest letters and organized their neighbors. HUD officials investigated the Berkeley residents for &#8220;discrimination&#8221; against the disabled and threatened them with $100,000 in fines. The government offered to drop their investigation (and the fines) if the neighborhood residents promised to stop speaking against the federal housing project.</p>
<p>Heather Mac Donald reported in the Wall Street Journal that one lawyer supporting HUD’s position argued that if the Berkeley residents’ protest letters resulted in the &#8220;denial of housing to a protected class of people, it ceases to be protected speech and becomes proscribed conduct.&#8221; This is classic Hegelian-Marxist thinking &#8212; actions (including free speech) that &#8220;objectively&#8221; harm people in a subordinate class are unjust (and should be outlawed). Eventually, hud withdrew its investigation. Nevertheless, the Berkeley residents brought suit against the HUD officials and won. </b></p>
<p>It is not just the kids, Book.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/comment-page-1/#comment-41422</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=5185#comment-41422</guid>
		<description>&lt;B&gt;A provision of the Violence Against Women Act, for example, that permitted women to sue their attackers in federal rather than state courts was overturned by a deeply divided Supreme Court 5-4. The majority argued on federalist grounds that states had primacy in this criminal justice area. In another 5-4 decision the Supreme Court in 1999 ruled that local schools are subject to sexual discrimination suits under Title IX if their administrators fail to stop sexual harassment among schoolchildren. The case, Davis v. Monroe County Board of Education, involved two 10-year olds in the fifth grade. Justice Anthony Kennedy broke tradition by reading a stinging dissent from the bench. He was joined by Justices Rehnquist, Scalia, and Thomas. Justice Kennedy attacked the majority view that the actions by the 10 year-old boy constituted &quot;gender discrimination.&quot;

American Enterprise Institute scholar Christina Hoff Sommers in The War Against Boys noted that the court majority appears to accept the position of gender feminist groups that sexual harassment is &quot;a kind of hate crime used by men to maintain and enforce the inferior status of women.&quot; Thus, Sommers explains, in terms of feminist theory (implicitly accepted by the court), the 10-year-old boy &quot;did not merely upset and frighten&quot; the ten-year old girl, &quot;he demeaned her as a member of a socially subordinate group.&quot; In effect, the court majority in Davis endorsed Gramscian and Hegelian-Marxist assumptions of power relations between dominant and subordinate groups and applied those assumptions to American fifth graders.

Recently, a similarly divided Supreme Court has offered divergent rulings on homosexual rights. In June 2000 the court overturned the New Jersey State Supreme Court and ruled 5-4 in Boy Scouts of America v. Dale that the Boy Scouts did not have to employ an openly gay scoutmaster. The majority’s reasoning was quintessentially Tocquevillian -- the First Amendment right of &quot;freedom of association.&quot; Writing for the majority, Chief Justice Rehnquist declared that &quot;judicial disapproval&quot; of a private organization’s values &quot;does not justify the State’s effort to compel the organization to accept members where such acceptance&quot; would change the organization’s message. The law, Rehnquist continued, &quot;is not free to interfere with speech for no better reason than promoting an approved message or discouraging a disfavored one, however enlightened either purpose may strike the government.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>A provision of the Violence Against Women Act, for example, that permitted women to sue their attackers in federal rather than state courts was overturned by a deeply divided Supreme Court 5-4. The majority argued on federalist grounds that states had primacy in this criminal justice area. In another 5-4 decision the Supreme Court in 1999 ruled that local schools are subject to sexual discrimination suits under Title IX if their administrators fail to stop sexual harassment among schoolchildren. The case, Davis v. Monroe County Board of Education, involved two 10-year olds in the fifth grade. Justice Anthony Kennedy broke tradition by reading a stinging dissent from the bench. He was joined by Justices Rehnquist, Scalia, and Thomas. Justice Kennedy attacked the majority view that the actions by the 10 year-old boy constituted &#8220;gender discrimination.&#8221;</p>
<p>American Enterprise Institute scholar Christina Hoff Sommers in The War Against Boys noted that the court majority appears to accept the position of gender feminist groups that sexual harassment is &#8220;a kind of hate crime used by men to maintain and enforce the inferior status of women.&#8221; Thus, Sommers explains, in terms of feminist theory (implicitly accepted by the court), the 10-year-old boy &#8220;did not merely upset and frighten&#8221; the ten-year old girl, &#8220;he demeaned her as a member of a socially subordinate group.&#8221; In effect, the court majority in Davis endorsed Gramscian and Hegelian-Marxist assumptions of power relations between dominant and subordinate groups and applied those assumptions to American fifth graders.</p>
<p>Recently, a similarly divided Supreme Court has offered divergent rulings on homosexual rights. In June 2000 the court overturned the New Jersey State Supreme Court and ruled 5-4 in Boy Scouts of America v. Dale that the Boy Scouts did not have to employ an openly gay scoutmaster. The majority’s reasoning was quintessentially Tocquevillian &#8212; the First Amendment right of &#8220;freedom of association.&#8221; Writing for the majority, Chief Justice Rehnquist declared that &#8220;judicial disapproval&#8221; of a private organization’s values &#8220;does not justify the State’s effort to compel the organization to accept members where such acceptance&#8221; would change the organization’s message. The law, Rehnquist continued, &#8220;is not free to interfere with speech for no better reason than promoting an approved message or discouraging a disfavored one, however enlightened either purpose may strike the government.&#8221;</b></p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/comment-page-1/#comment-41420</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=5185#comment-41420</guid>
		<description>The schools have become the facilitators and supporters of bullies.

&lt;B&gt;Kors states that at an academic conference sponsored by the University of Nebraska, the attendees articulated the view that &quot;White students desperately need formal ‘training’ in racial and cultural awareness. The moral goal of such training should override white notions of privacy and individualism.&quot; One of the leading &quot;diversity experts&quot; providing scores of &quot;training programs&quot; in universities, corporations, and government bureaucracies is Hugh Vasquez of the Todos Institute of Oakland, California. Vasquez’s study guide for a Ford Foundation-funded diversity film, Skin Deep, explains the meaning of &quot;white privilege&quot; and &quot;internalized oppression&quot; for the trainees. It also explains the concept of an &quot;ally,&quot; as an individual from the &quot;dominant group&quot; who rejects his &quot;unmerited privilege&quot; and becomes an advocate for the position of the subordinate groups. This concept of the &quot;ally,&quot; of course, is Gramscian to the core; it is exactly representative of the notion that subordinate groups struggling for power must try to &quot;conquer ideologically&quot; the traditional intellectuals or activist cadres normally associated with the dominant group.&lt;/b&gt;

http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3484376.html

Helen would naturally be an Ally, then. Someone that has been &quot;converted&quot; to the new realm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The schools have become the facilitators and supporters of bullies.</p>
<p><b>Kors states that at an academic conference sponsored by the University of Nebraska, the attendees articulated the view that &#8220;White students desperately need formal ‘training’ in racial and cultural awareness. The moral goal of such training should override white notions of privacy and individualism.&#8221; One of the leading &#8220;diversity experts&#8221; providing scores of &#8220;training programs&#8221; in universities, corporations, and government bureaucracies is Hugh Vasquez of the Todos Institute of Oakland, California. Vasquez’s study guide for a Ford Foundation-funded diversity film, Skin Deep, explains the meaning of &#8220;white privilege&#8221; and &#8220;internalized oppression&#8221; for the trainees. It also explains the concept of an &#8220;ally,&#8221; as an individual from the &#8220;dominant group&#8221; who rejects his &#8220;unmerited privilege&#8221; and becomes an advocate for the position of the subordinate groups. This concept of the &#8220;ally,&#8221; of course, is Gramscian to the core; it is exactly representative of the notion that subordinate groups struggling for power must try to &#8220;conquer ideologically&#8221; the traditional intellectuals or activist cadres normally associated with the dominant group.</b></p>
<p><a href="http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3484376.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3484376.html</a></p>
<p>Helen would naturally be an Ally, then. Someone that has been &#8220;converted&#8221; to the new realm.</p>
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		<title>By: Random Jottings</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/comment-page-1/#comment-41416</link>
		<dc:creator>Random Jottings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 18:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=5185#comment-41416</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;&quot;Real” truth and the “state” truth...&lt;/strong&gt;

 Bookworm, Can’t fight group think: Several years ago, I read one of Natan Sharansky’s books in which he described his life as a refusenik in the former Soviet Union.  One of the points he made that struck me with......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>&#8220;Real” truth and the “state” truth&#8230;</strong></p>
<p> Bookworm, Can’t fight group think: Several years ago, I read one of Natan Sharansky’s books in which he described his life as a refusenik in the former Soviet Union.  One of the points he made that struck me with&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Devx</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/comment-page-1/#comment-41406</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Devx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=5185#comment-41406</guid>
		<description>Danny #15
&gt;&gt; We’ve passed from an Age of Reason to an Age of Emotion. [...]
Well, the next few years should provide quite a plethora of consequences for people to contemplate. Maybe it will jolt them from their video-inspired alternate universes and get them to start thinking again instead of emoting. Until then, our bleats will echo with Cassandrian futility. Don’t waste your time or breath…think ahead, plan and check your six. Time and circumstances have a way of changing things. We want to be ready. &gt;&gt;

A People become soft when times are very good for a long time.  I&#039;d say we&#039;ve had two generations of good times since the recovery began in 1982.  (The recovery from the disastrous Carter policies...)   9-11 wasn&#039;t a good time, and it woke SOME of us up, but not very many.

I think we are in for a struggle over the next decade, and quite a few more people are going to face hard times.   All these surface opinions and bleatings about irrelevant things will recede as hard choices have to be made.  We&#039;re already seeing some of this with Iran, Syria, and Hamas.  As Iran edges ever closer to completing their nuclear annihilation program, more and more people are examining it and becoming VERY worried.  Hard times have a way of making people realize that there are consequences for silly, Jimmy Carter-like decisions and his eccentric-at-best, evil-at-worst manner of coddling dictators, coddling terrorists, his utterly bizzare filter on his world-view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danny #15<br />
&gt;&gt; We’ve passed from an Age of Reason to an Age of Emotion. [...]<br />
Well, the next few years should provide quite a plethora of consequences for people to contemplate. Maybe it will jolt them from their video-inspired alternate universes and get them to start thinking again instead of emoting. Until then, our bleats will echo with Cassandrian futility. Don’t waste your time or breath…think ahead, plan and check your six. Time and circumstances have a way of changing things. We want to be ready. &gt;&gt;</p>
<p>A People become soft when times are very good for a long time.  I&#8217;d say we&#8217;ve had two generations of good times since the recovery began in 1982.  (The recovery from the disastrous Carter policies&#8230;)   9-11 wasn&#8217;t a good time, and it woke SOME of us up, but not very many.</p>
<p>I think we are in for a struggle over the next decade, and quite a few more people are going to face hard times.   All these surface opinions and bleatings about irrelevant things will recede as hard choices have to be made.  We&#8217;re already seeing some of this with Iran, Syria, and Hamas.  As Iran edges ever closer to completing their nuclear annihilation program, more and more people are examining it and becoming VERY worried.  Hard times have a way of making people realize that there are consequences for silly, Jimmy Carter-like decisions and his eccentric-at-best, evil-at-worst manner of coddling dictators, coddling terrorists, his utterly bizzare filter on his world-view.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Lemieux</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/comment-page-1/#comment-41399</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Lemieux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=5185#comment-41399</guid>
		<description>You probably won&#039;t have to worry until they ask you to put on an armband, Ellen. 

My attitude is one of quiet resignation and a personal scramble to figure out how I plan to survive this mess. I once asked a Nicaraguan refugee how the Nicaraguan people could &quot;elect&quot; the communists back into power after what they had been through. His response: people quickly forget. There is nothing that you and I can do to change peoples&#039; perceptions...yet - only circumstances can do that. 

We&#039;ve passed from an Age of Reason to an Age of Emotion. A good part of it is the failure in the education system (you can&#039;t argue &quot;facts&quot; with people who can&#039;t reason), but a good part (I believe) is that people have managed to succeed very well in recent economic times without having to think. As Marshall McLuhan aptly prophesied, the medium became the message and people became free to turn their brains off without (they believed) the fear of consequences (just consider what the MSM media provides as daily fare). People could also turn off their character without fear of consequences. Just look at the type of people our august citizenry vote into power - the circus we refer to as the Senate as Exhibit #1.

Well, the next few years should provide quite a plethora of consequences for people to contemplate. Maybe it will jolt them from their video-inspired alternate universes and get them to start thinking again instead of emoting. Until then, our bleats will echo with Cassandrian futility. Don&#039;t waste your time or breath...think ahead, plan and check your six. Time and circumstances have a way of changing things. We want to be ready.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You probably won&#8217;t have to worry until they ask you to put on an armband, Ellen. </p>
<p>My attitude is one of quiet resignation and a personal scramble to figure out how I plan to survive this mess. I once asked a Nicaraguan refugee how the Nicaraguan people could &#8220;elect&#8221; the communists back into power after what they had been through. His response: people quickly forget. There is nothing that you and I can do to change peoples&#8217; perceptions&#8230;yet &#8211; only circumstances can do that. </p>
<p>We&#8217;ve passed from an Age of Reason to an Age of Emotion. A good part of it is the failure in the education system (you can&#8217;t argue &#8220;facts&#8221; with people who can&#8217;t reason), but a good part (I believe) is that people have managed to succeed very well in recent economic times without having to think. As Marshall McLuhan aptly prophesied, the medium became the message and people became free to turn their brains off without (they believed) the fear of consequences (just consider what the MSM media provides as daily fare). People could also turn off their character without fear of consequences. Just look at the type of people our august citizenry vote into power &#8211; the circus we refer to as the Senate as Exhibit #1.</p>
<p>Well, the next few years should provide quite a plethora of consequences for people to contemplate. Maybe it will jolt them from their video-inspired alternate universes and get them to start thinking again instead of emoting. Until then, our bleats will echo with Cassandrian futility. Don&#8217;t waste your time or breath&#8230;think ahead, plan and check your six. Time and circumstances have a way of changing things. We want to be ready.</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/comment-page-1/#comment-41396</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=5185#comment-41396</guid>
		<description>I guess I will be alone then, come Tuesday.  I work at a university which, while not in the same category as Berkley is still filled with worship of The One.  I don&#039;t dare say that I am afraid for the future, so I just say I wish him well - which I do.
In the meantime, I redouble my prayers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I will be alone then, come Tuesday.  I work at a university which, while not in the same category as Berkley is still filled with worship of The One.  I don&#8217;t dare say that I am afraid for the future, so I just say I wish him well &#8211; which I do.<br />
In the meantime, I redouble my prayers.</p>
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		<title>By: 11B40</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/comment-page-1/#comment-41360</link>
		<dc:creator>11B40</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=5185#comment-41360</guid>
		<description>Greetings:

Back in 1973, I was working for Columbia University&#039;s Lamont Doherty Geological Observatory as a Satellite Navigator on its Research Vessel Vema.  As part of President Nixon&#039;s detante with the USSR, we were working with oceanographers from Murmansk, off the coasts of Iceland, showing them how to use the equipment they were going to receive.  After the project, we sailed to Murmansk for some R&amp;R and shore work.

Among the amenities, the Commies provided while we were ashore, was an old school bus to squire us about the town.  One day, they wanted to show us the monument that had been erected to honor the sailors and merchant mariners who had been lost during World War II.  To get to the monument, we had to drive past the harbor area where there were a large number of large billboards showing what appeared to be some kind of statistics about their fishing fleet.  One of our crew members asked our guide, a Russian oceanographer, what they were all about.  

&quot;Propaganda,&quot; he replied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings:</p>
<p>Back in 1973, I was working for Columbia University&#8217;s Lamont Doherty Geological Observatory as a Satellite Navigator on its Research Vessel Vema.  As part of President Nixon&#8217;s detante with the USSR, we were working with oceanographers from Murmansk, off the coasts of Iceland, showing them how to use the equipment they were going to receive.  After the project, we sailed to Murmansk for some R&amp;R and shore work.</p>
<p>Among the amenities, the Commies provided while we were ashore, was an old school bus to squire us about the town.  One day, they wanted to show us the monument that had been erected to honor the sailors and merchant mariners who had been lost during World War II.  To get to the monument, we had to drive past the harbor area where there were a large number of large billboards showing what appeared to be some kind of statistics about their fishing fleet.  One of our crew members asked our guide, a Russian oceanographer, what they were all about.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Propaganda,&#8221; he replied.</p>
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		<title>By: David Foster</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/comment-page-1/#comment-41358</link>
		<dc:creator>David Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=5185#comment-41358</guid>
		<description>OK...found the Sebastian Haffner book. He was born in Germany circa 1907, and his book mainly covers his experiences during Weimar and the early Nazi era. Realize now I quoted part of this here before, but I think it bears repeating.

&quot;With fearful menace the state demands that the individual give up his friends, abandon his lovers, renounce his beliefs and assume new, prescribed ones. He must use a new form of greeting, eat and drink in ways he does not fancy, employ his leisure in occupations he abhors, make himself available for activities he despises, and deny his past and his individuality. For all this, he must constantly express extreme enthusiasm and gratitude.

The individual is opposed to all of that, but he is ill-prepared for the onslaught. He was not born a hero, still less a martyr. He is just an ordinary man, with many weaknesses, having grown up in vulnerable times.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK&#8230;found the Sebastian Haffner book. He was born in Germany circa 1907, and his book mainly covers his experiences during Weimar and the early Nazi era. Realize now I quoted part of this here before, but I think it bears repeating.</p>
<p>&#8220;With fearful menace the state demands that the individual give up his friends, abandon his lovers, renounce his beliefs and assume new, prescribed ones. He must use a new form of greeting, eat and drink in ways he does not fancy, employ his leisure in occupations he abhors, make himself available for activities he despises, and deny his past and his individuality. For all this, he must constantly express extreme enthusiasm and gratitude.</p>
<p>The individual is opposed to all of that, but he is ill-prepared for the onslaught. He was not born a hero, still less a martyr. He is just an ordinary man, with many weaknesses, having grown up in vulnerable times.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/01/16/cant-fight-group-think/comment-page-1/#comment-41351</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=5185#comment-41351</guid>
		<description>&lt;B&gt;“the schools sure have done a thorough job with my kids–they’re all over me for smoking cigars.”&lt;/b&gt;

I believe he still thinks that, no matter the personal inconvenience, the schools did do a good and &quot;thorough&quot; job on the kids. He knows what they are being taught, I presume, and he doesn&#039;t mind and perhaps even approves. He may not approve of the personal inconvenience, but when has personal inconvenience ever stopped a proponent of Democrat policies?

It ain&#039;t till people suffer that things get beyond &quot;personal inconvenience&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>“the schools sure have done a thorough job with my kids–they’re all over me for smoking cigars.”</b></p>
<p>I believe he still thinks that, no matter the personal inconvenience, the schools did do a good and &#8220;thorough&#8221; job on the kids. He knows what they are being taught, I presume, and he doesn&#8217;t mind and perhaps even approves. He may not approve of the personal inconvenience, but when has personal inconvenience ever stopped a proponent of Democrat policies?</p>
<p>It ain&#8217;t till people suffer that things get beyond &#8220;personal inconvenience&#8221;.</p>
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