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	<title>Comments on: Stopping Waxman Markey</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/</link>
	<description>Conservatives deal with facts and reach conclusions; liberals have conclusions and sell them as facts.</description>
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		<title>By: BrianE</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/comment-page-1/#comment-53693</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=7172#comment-53693</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;One Democrat was upset that his leaders would needlessly force vulnerable Dems to vote for a bill that will come back to haunt them. Mississippi Rep. Gene Taylor (D) voted against the measure that he says will die in the Senate. 

&quot;A lot of people walked the plank on a bill that will never become law,&quot; Taylor told The Hill after the gavel came down.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

From an article in &quot;The Hill&quot;

Last two paragraphs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>One Democrat was upset that his leaders would needlessly force vulnerable Dems to vote for a bill that will come back to haunt them. Mississippi Rep. Gene Taylor (D) voted against the measure that he says will die in the Senate. </p>
<p>&#8220;A lot of people walked the plank on a bill that will never become law,&#8221; Taylor told The Hill after the gavel came down.</p></blockquote>
<p>From an article in &#8220;The Hill&#8221;</p>
<p>Last two paragraphs.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Lemieux</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/comment-page-1/#comment-53599</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Lemieux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=7172#comment-53599</guid>
		<description>Suek - unfortunately, the delay in implementation will have the opposite effect. It will convince the electorate that it really was a &quot;no pain&quot; act and that the Republicans were exagerating fears. 

I am convinced that the next election (next year) may be our last truly free election for a long time. After that, it will be too late to repeal the legislation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suek &#8211; unfortunately, the delay in implementation will have the opposite effect. It will convince the electorate that it really was a &#8220;no pain&#8221; act and that the Republicans were exagerating fears. </p>
<p>I am convinced that the next election (next year) may be our last truly free election for a long time. After that, it will be too late to repeal the legislation.</p>
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		<title>By: suek</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/comment-page-1/#comment-53297</link>
		<dc:creator>suek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=7172#comment-53297</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;Surprise, surprise the bill won’t go in effect until 2012 &gt;&gt;

Good - maybe there&#039;ll be a chance to stop it and reverse the legislation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;Surprise, surprise the bill won’t go in effect until 2012 &gt;&gt;</p>
<p>Good &#8211; maybe there&#8217;ll be a chance to stop it and reverse the legislation.</p>
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		<title>By: SADIE</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/comment-page-1/#comment-53285</link>
		<dc:creator>SADIE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=7172#comment-53285</guid>
		<description>It only gets uglier and uglier the more I read.


EPA told to suppress....

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=330911757213432


BrianE:

From your mouth to the Financial Ninja&#039;s ears....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FiNhXIv5StE/SkNuOE55QGI/AAAAAAAAEQI/BDbkVtClXQg/s1600-h/GE.png</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It only gets uglier and uglier the more I read.</p>
<p>EPA told to suppress&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=330911757213432" rel="nofollow">http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=330911757213432</a></p>
<p>BrianE:</p>
<p>From your mouth to the Financial Ninja&#8217;s ears&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FiNhXIv5StE/SkNuOE55QGI/AAAAAAAAEQI/BDbkVtClXQg/s1600-h/GE.png" rel="nofollow">http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FiNhXIv5StE/SkNuOE55QGI/AAAAAAAAEQI/BDbkVtClXQg/s1600-h/GE.png</a></p>
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		<title>By: BrianE</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/comment-page-1/#comment-53282</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=7172#comment-53282</guid>
		<description>Here is a good analysis of the supposed economic benefits of the bill:

http://theamericanscene.com/2009/05/20/waxman-markey-cost-benefit-analysis
&lt;blockquote&gt;Costs vs. Benefits of Waxman-Markey

Let’s start with the costs. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has done the first cost estimate for Waxman-Markey. It finds (page 17) that by 2020 Waxman-Markey would cause a typical U.S. household to consume about $160 less per year than it otherwise would, and about $1,100 less per year by 2050 (before any potential benefits from avoiding warming). That doesn’t sound like the end of the world, but this cost estimate is based on a number of assumptions that seem pretty unrealistic, to put it mildly.

First, it assumes that every dollar collected by selling the right to emit carbon dioxide will be returned to taxpayers through rebates or lowered taxes. Waxman-Markey establishes this intention but doesn’t (as of the time I’m writing this) describe how it would be achieved, which reflects the political difficulty of achieving it. Second, it assumes no costs for enforcement and other compliance measures, which would be awfully nice. Third, it assumes that large numbers of foreign offsets will be available for purchase; without these, costs would be far higher. Fourth, it assumes that the rest of the world will begin similar carbon-reduction programs. Lack of such foreign action would either increase U.S. costs or risk a trade war if we tried to compensate for lack of international cooperation with targeted tariffs. Fifth, it assumes that there will be no exemptions or other side deals—that is, no economic drag created by the kind of complexity that has attached to every large, long-term revenue-collection program in history. And so on.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Let&#039;s assume that we have a national interest in reducing the use of fossil fuels, which would also have the effect of reducing CO2.
Wouldn&#039;t it be more productive to take the same costs we are going to impose in the cap and trade scenario and just embark on a national build out of nuclear, wind, solar and geothermal, since that is the ultimate goal anyway?
Of course, I can answer my own question. With nuclear off the table, wind, solar and geothermal can&#039;t produce the kinds of production to meaningfully reduce fossil fuel consumption. Since smart people on both sides of the aisle realize that, the alternative is what the cap and trade bill is going to produce-- less energy use which will have a negative effect greater than the costs attributed to the bill.
Unless we figure out how to extract hydrogen from water economically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a good analysis of the supposed economic benefits of the bill:</p>
<p><a href="http://theamericanscene.com/2009/05/20/waxman-markey-cost-benefit-analysis" rel="nofollow">http://theamericanscene.com/2009/05/20/waxman-markey-cost-benefit-analysis</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Costs vs. Benefits of Waxman-Markey</p>
<p>Let’s start with the costs. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has done the first cost estimate for Waxman-Markey. It finds (page 17) that by 2020 Waxman-Markey would cause a typical U.S. household to consume about $160 less per year than it otherwise would, and about $1,100 less per year by 2050 (before any potential benefits from avoiding warming). That doesn’t sound like the end of the world, but this cost estimate is based on a number of assumptions that seem pretty unrealistic, to put it mildly.</p>
<p>First, it assumes that every dollar collected by selling the right to emit carbon dioxide will be returned to taxpayers through rebates or lowered taxes. Waxman-Markey establishes this intention but doesn’t (as of the time I’m writing this) describe how it would be achieved, which reflects the political difficulty of achieving it. Second, it assumes no costs for enforcement and other compliance measures, which would be awfully nice. Third, it assumes that large numbers of foreign offsets will be available for purchase; without these, costs would be far higher. Fourth, it assumes that the rest of the world will begin similar carbon-reduction programs. Lack of such foreign action would either increase U.S. costs or risk a trade war if we tried to compensate for lack of international cooperation with targeted tariffs. Fifth, it assumes that there will be no exemptions or other side deals—that is, no economic drag created by the kind of complexity that has attached to every large, long-term revenue-collection program in history. And so on.</p></blockquote>
<p>Let&#8217;s assume that we have a national interest in reducing the use of fossil fuels, which would also have the effect of reducing CO2.<br />
Wouldn&#8217;t it be more productive to take the same costs we are going to impose in the cap and trade scenario and just embark on a national build out of nuclear, wind, solar and geothermal, since that is the ultimate goal anyway?<br />
Of course, I can answer my own question. With nuclear off the table, wind, solar and geothermal can&#8217;t produce the kinds of production to meaningfully reduce fossil fuel consumption. Since smart people on both sides of the aisle realize that, the alternative is what the cap and trade bill is going to produce&#8211; less energy use which will have a negative effect greater than the costs attributed to the bill.<br />
Unless we figure out how to extract hydrogen from water economically.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianE</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/comment-page-1/#comment-53272</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=7172#comment-53272</guid>
		<description>Surprise, surprise the bill won&#039;t go in effect until 2012 with a mandated 6% reduction in CO2. So at the beginning Americans won&#039;t feel much effects of this. The $175 per household figure is based on reductions mandated by 2020. 
Of course, the target emissions in 2080 would have us producing less CO2 than we did in the 1800s.
My understanding is that GE, which owns a majority stake in NBC, CNBC, and MSNBC has already set up a trading company to trade carbon credits. I would be curious as to these media outlets treatment of this issue on the whole. 
It still has to pass the senate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surprise, surprise the bill won&#8217;t go in effect until 2012 with a mandated 6% reduction in CO2. So at the beginning Americans won&#8217;t feel much effects of this. The $175 per household figure is based on reductions mandated by 2020.<br />
Of course, the target emissions in 2080 would have us producing less CO2 than we did in the 1800s.<br />
My understanding is that GE, which owns a majority stake in NBC, CNBC, and MSNBC has already set up a trading company to trade carbon credits. I would be curious as to these media outlets treatment of this issue on the whole.<br />
It still has to pass the senate.</p>
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		<title>By: David Foster</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/comment-page-1/#comment-53207</link>
		<dc:creator>David Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=7172#comment-53207</guid>
		<description>The performance of the business &quot;community&quot; in all of this has been pretty dismal. Just about every oil company, for example, has been frantically trying to wrap a green mantle around themselves: few if any have seriously attempted to educate people about the realities of energy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The performance of the business &#8220;community&#8221; in all of this has been pretty dismal. Just about every oil company, for example, has been frantically trying to wrap a green mantle around themselves: few if any have seriously attempted to educate people about the realities of energy.</p>
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		<title>By: March Hare</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/comment-page-1/#comment-53104</link>
		<dc:creator>March Hare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=7172#comment-53104</guid>
		<description>&lt;/b&gt;My Congressperson is, of course, the execrable Lynn Woolsey, who undoubtedly thinks this bill doesn’t go far enough.&lt;/b&gt;

Mine is George Miller, who basically is Mrs. Pelosi&#039;s lap dog.  Unfortunately, most of his constituents think he&#039;s doing a terrific job and there seem to be no creditable Republicans to run against him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Congressperson is, of course, the execrable Lynn Woolsey, who undoubtedly thinks this bill doesn’t go far enough.</p>
<p>Mine is George Miller, who basically is Mrs. Pelosi&#8217;s lap dog.  Unfortunately, most of his constituents think he&#8217;s doing a terrific job and there seem to be no creditable Republicans to run against him.</p>
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		<title>By: SADIE</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/comment-page-1/#comment-53025</link>
		<dc:creator>SADIE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=7172#comment-53025</guid>
		<description>(snip from the snipers)
Supporters and opponents agreed the result would be higher energy costs but disagreed vigorously on the impact on consumers. Democrats pointed to two reports — one from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office and the other from the Environmental Protection Agency — that suggested average increases would be limited after tax credits and rebates were taken into account. The CBO estimated the bill would cost an average household $175 a year, the EPA $80 to $110 a year.

Republicans questioned the validity of the CBO study and noted that even that analysis showed actual energy production costs increasing $770 per household. Industry groups have cited other studies showing much higher costs to the economy and to individuals.

Think I will take my future electric bills and send them to 12 deserving Democrats to be paid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(snip from the snipers)<br />
Supporters and opponents agreed the result would be higher energy costs but disagreed vigorously on the impact on consumers. Democrats pointed to two reports — one from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office and the other from the Environmental Protection Agency — that suggested average increases would be limited after tax credits and rebates were taken into account. The CBO estimated the bill would cost an average household $175 a year, the EPA $80 to $110 a year.</p>
<p>Republicans questioned the validity of the CBO study and noted that even that analysis showed actual energy production costs increasing $770 per household. Industry groups have cited other studies showing much higher costs to the economy and to individuals.</p>
<p>Think I will take my future electric bills and send them to 12 deserving Democrats to be paid.</p>
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		<title>By: suek</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/06/26/stopping-waxman-markey/comment-page-1/#comment-52986</link>
		<dc:creator>suek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=7172#comment-52986</guid>
		<description>Maybe some _one_  is actually going to look into the eligibility thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe some _one_  is actually going to look into the eligibility thing.</p>
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