Let’s talk about the doctors under Obama Care
Bookworm on Aug 14 2009 at 10:30 am | Filed under: Uncategorized
The one thing that Obama supporters are not discussing is the making of a doctor. The good doctors we have come as the result of a grueling process. The best and the brightest, rather than leaving college and going off to make money, instead opt for the following:
1. Four more years of graduate training, including (a) the trauma of anatomy classes and (b) the exhaustion of clinical work, which is what they do in the last two years. The students pay to do this (or go into debt), with even the state funded medical schools costing about $40,0o0 — and that’s a minimum. Go to Harvard, and you’re out of pocket about $150,000 for this training.
2. An internship, which is one year of all work, on the one hand, and no sleep and almost no pay, on the other hand.
3. If your young doctor wants to be anything more than a prison doctor, after internship, s/he does a minimum two year residency, which is two more years of virtually unpaid time spent working, not sleeping.
4. If your young doctor wants to be anything more than an internist or family practitioner, then the additional residency years or fellowship years begin. Again, almost no pay and no sleep.
This means that the surgeon diving into your abdomen, or heart, or brain is someone who is (a) in the top two percent of our academic population and who (b) sacrificed up to 12 years of his/her life plus tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for the privilege of making that cut — and doing it right, so that you don’t bleed out or die of an infection, and so that you have a minimal scar and maximum comfort.
If medicine is no longer remunerative, there is no incentive for good people to make these kinds of sacrifices. I’ll remind you that, in the former Soviet Union, medicine was a very devalued profession. It was harder work than most other jobs and, because it was essentially uncompensated, no one wanted to do it.
Related posts:
- Obama’s talk will not be cheap *UPDATE*
- Keep your mouth shut when you talk about Obama
- Talk and talk-back
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103 Responses to “Let’s talk about the doctors under Obama Care”
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Liberal /Lefties like to go on and on about how people in Cuba get health care. Well…so do farm animals!
What ultimately matters is what kind of health care people get and I certainly prefer my doctors and surgeons to be very well compensated to do a good job. You get what you pay for.
Book, it doesn’t matter what happened to doctors in the USSR for two reasons:
1. The whole point of socialized medicine is to be able to point to an entire population and say, “See? Under our system all people are equal and all have equal access to medical treatment!” So what if the level of care is abysmal? The key to happiness under socialism is that we all suffer equally, which engenders a warm, colorful, “can-do” spirit of community!
2. Doctors should want to work doing good for others even if the remuneration is peanuts. After all, socialism perfects Christian agape by removing the voluntary aspect of good works. By forcing us all to either do good works or finance them, socialism bypasses the whole messy business of free will.
its not the renumeration that drives docotrs to care for patients. it is an intrinsic desire to use their learned and acquired ability to care for their patient as best as they can, as they see fit. socialized medicine with a single payor (that is what the public option is meant to do, to become the single payor after the consumers are forced into it when the insurers are driven out of business) will inject themselves into the clinical decisions made by doctors. and these decisions, more than ever, will be predicated on cost savings rather than care delivered. and any care delivered will be done as “good enough” rather than “best possible.”
It’s true that good doctors are very highly trained, but that training may not be available to certain disadvantaged groups. There are many who may not have the monetary means or academic background to pursue a medical career, despite the unique life experiences which can give them a unique bedside manner and social perspective. I am confident the new administration will remedy that, with help from Justice Sotomayor.
Jose, what social perspective does cancer respond best to? For that matter, which bedside manner best fixes a diabetic’s severe hypoglycemic episode?
Also, I wasn’t aware that Justice Sotomayor is qualified to award medical scholarships. In any case, your call to subsidize people who have no academic background amazes me. I would be certain to avoid any doctor whom I thought was a product of the system you’re advocating. I would not want to be a victim of your victimology.
Charles, I have to believe that Jose was responding tongue-in-cheek (TIC).
I’m with Danny. I also think it was TIC.
Yes – TIC.
Sotomayor and government administered health care have been stuck together in my head for months…
Check _this_ out! even the libs are beginning to see the light. (well, _some_ libs)
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/08/12/town_halls/
Jose….sorry. Get the tongue out of your cheek. Obama’s already been cheek-mated on the racial issue… Maybe.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/11/panel-sees-race-bias-in-health-care-bill/
Ha! Paglia is a perceptive and incendiary writer but she can’t seem to figure out, regarding Obama, that the fish rots from the head. There was a post & thread @ Belmont Club/Pajamas Media that Paglia like many liberals is like an abused spouse. The guy is a stinker but she still loves him.
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/08/13/anything-i-own/
Jose didn’t hyperventilate. Something out of character for many with such self-stated views. That’s unusual, and since I don’t remember seeing the name label here before on an often basis, worthy of caution.
There was a post & thread @ Belmont Club/Pajamas Media that Paglia like many liberals is like an abused spouse.
Given my past reading of such relationships, it’s actually a very good comparison. Better than most people realize or want to realize. Book called it the ‘codependency’ relationship.
The real secret to gaining on the Left isn’t to offer up a more cogent argument or to present more compelling facts. It’s to outfriend them; to open up a door that will make the undecideds out in the cold come in and feel loved. On the day conservatives sweep the Facebook groups they will sweep the world. Alas, all too many people want to be the bihag ng pag-ibig, and all too few can stomach what it takes to pull them in. Shane won’t do it, but Barack will. And as for those in the Left, it’s largely futile to imagine they will ever switch sides; ever walk out on their friends, theater groups, literary clubs, faculty bridge associations; ever walk out on their lives. Barack Obama will have to practically poison Camille Paglia before she will consent to abjure him, for to do so would be turn her back on too great a store of memory to easily relinquish.
Martel, you mentioned facts before to another person here concerning Iraq. This is part of the reason why I said facts do not matter.
If medicine is no longer remunerative, there is no incentive for good people to make these kinds of sacrifices. I’ll remind you that, in the former Soviet Union, medicine was a very devalued profession. It was harder work than most other jobs and, because it was essentially uncompensated, no one wanted to do it.
But Book. Don’t you remember.
That’s why Michelle Obama said that Barack will make you work by getting you off your couches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Gl8aMOpcg
Hear it and weep for the nation of cowards and idiots that inflicted this upon the innocent, the powerless, and the virtuous.
Then when you’re done, get ready to smash the faces of the foe into the concrete of truth.
Barack was ready to screw America. The rest of America, however, wasn’t ready for Barack.
You people won’t be allowed to remove yourself from Barack Obama’s tax rolls. He is the Lightbringer. He will demand that you shed your cynicism. That you will move out of your comfort zones. It doesn’t matter what if you want to retire. You’re going to work.
For him.
Apologies, Jose. Your spoof was damned good! I’ve been in “Militant Mode” lately, so I’ve even been snarling at fire hydrants.
Link
Read some conservative gun pr0n, then Martel.
That should get the juice from fire hydrants flowing.
Charles, no apology needed.
Y – Great link!
All, I’m dying to know if affirmative action exists at medical schools. I’m not concerned about scholarships or financial aid for certain groups, but actual placement. Anybody?
The guy is a stinker but she still loves him.
The very same words of women who have been battered and abused by their mates.
Y…saw the link. Couldn’t make it to last 15 seconds, I was frothin’ at the mouth and trying to drink coffee and my taste buds became confused in the haze of dueling froths.
The One says he is going to make sure we have more GPs and primary care docs. I want to know how he is going to do this. I don’t know how docs end up picking their specialties, but I doubt if it’s something that springs to mind on the first day of med school. I’d bet that something just clicks for them during one of their clerkship rotations and that’s it.
So here’s my question about Obama’s plans: in addition to the utter misery he plans on inflicting on us, what measure of misery is he going to inflict on the docs. Is he going to tell someone who suddenly finds himself fascinated by surgery, and then by opthalmic surgery that he can’t be an eye surgeon, that he has to be an internist. And what’s going to happen to those who need eye surgeons? And how long does he expect the frustrated and disappointed eye surgeon wannabe to practice medicine as an internist?
It’s like I was reading somewhere else today, with respect to Obama’s idiotic pronouncements on tonsillectomies and amputations, The One’s overweening and entirely unmerited arrogance is going to do us all in.
I keep wanting to quote Samuel L Jackson’s line from Die Hard 3: I don’t like you, Mr. President, because you’re going to get me killed.
has anyone mentioned how medical schools determine the # of students admitted per year? basically, the industry estimates how many doctors are retiring in a given year, then adds in the average inflation of patients requiring medical attention, and then churns out a number. for example, say in 2020 there will be a need for 10,000 new doctors entering the field (post-residency). Let’s assume a 10 year period for college, med school, residency, etc. Using these figures, med schools will collude to ensure that around 10,000 applicants enter their respective programs in 2010.
essentially, a cap is created in the medical field, whereby the # of doctors is not determined by ability (say, 20,000 applicants passing required exams in 2010), but rather by the “demand” created by the “market” of sick people.
in one way, it’s a good thing, because the schools ensure that the current system that fabulously rewards doctors remains in place; and in a way, it’s awful, because it limits who can and cannot be a doctor. essentially, it is “collusion”, somewhat similar to what Pepsi and Coca-Cola do – two companies that have such control over the market that they can determine how much profit they make by never raising or lowering prices too dramatically.
collusion is illegal, btw. i used “” over the word “demand” above because it’s an artificial demand. if medical schools allowed all passing applicants to enter their programs, you would probably see a large upswing in the # of doctors in 2020 – and more doctors is a good thing, right? generally speaking, more people would have easier access to a doctor, and the price would be reduced because there would be more competition among medical practices. lower prices are good for consumers, and healthier people are good for the economy.
however, that doesn’t happen. The ratio of doctors to patients remains relatively unchanged over time, meaning the medical profession has “cornered” the profit margins in the market.
God, could you imagine explaining this to Hippocrates?
Anyway, the point is that the medical profession and medical markets are incredibly complex, and they don’t necessarily work the way you think they do. Doctors can’t be the altruistic heroes of t.v. shows like E.R. and Chicago Hope while simultaneously working hard for so many years to become richly compensated. greed doesn’t share space with altruism.
Y…saw the link. Couldn’t make it to last 15 seconds, I was frothin’ at the mouth and trying to drink coffee and my taste buds became confused in the haze of dueling froths.
Are you referring to the video youtube link?
If so, I got a cure. Least I can do.
Here’s a better one. More uplifting.
http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/obamaclown/
Above link is only good at the end.
Thanks, Y
Feeling much better.
Two quick comments:
Link #1) flag in distress – after his description of the majority of women, who voted for BHO, I must certainly be an anomaly (kinda made me feel special).
Link #2) I can see why he chose Joe as his running mate (they share more in common that I had previously realized). Giggles Galore!
Did you put those two YouTube clips together, YM? I am both in awe and appalled, given all the new material with which to work. You are right, Sadie – between Biden and Obama, we have Abbott and Costello.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-03-02-doctor-shortage_x.htm
I was listening to a Dean of a medical college on C-Span stating that there were unfilled slots for primary care physicians at her college, so just increasing that won’t help.
I was reading at another blog that offered this:
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/10/primary-care-shortage-and-physician.html
The number of doctors training for general medicine have dropped more than 25% in this decade.
Obama is using the typical class warfare tactic against those greedy doctors (performing unnecessary operations for profit), which may have limited success.
Reading Canadian blogs, there is little sympathy for doctor’s who complain about the salaries they make (mostly greedy doctors response).
But Obama is trying to frame the debate as a referendum on insurance companies.
It’s the greedy insurance companies that are the source of all our problems.
I’m not particularly fond of insurance companies myself, and the claims of denied services are exaggerated, but I’m not sure the argument of “letting the free market work” are persuasive to most Americans.
Anyone having to deal with an insurance claim understands what a labrynth has been created. Unlike the government insurance where the paperwork nightmare is born by the medical billers.
Allowing pools across state lines would help, but tramples on state sovreignty, since states control insurance companies.
Tort reform would help.
Danny, oh I can’t take credit for that. I just saw it while reading something else on youtube, really.
I must certainly be an anomaly (kinda made me feel special).
Statistically, it was close between Mc and Bara. McCain even had the lead when the nomination of Sarah came online.
It’s not statistical women in general. It’s the bellcurve, specifically the upper 5%. You know, the Kathleen Parkers, the Peggy Noonans. You know who I am talking about.
Those were whipping up propaganda against Sarah Palin, with the help of Obama. And that contributed to negative publicity, demoralization, and loss of combat effectiveness. Sarah Palin could have counter-attacked, but McCain said “no attacks on Barack, we’re better than that”.
Yeah, you’re so much better that you lost.
As seen in recent news, the Senate has retracted the Advisory Board on End of Life Options, after Barack told Sarah that these boards were not “death panels”. Palin addressed this, but also mentioned that her original Death Panels had to do with Dr. Emannuel, not the Advisory Board on End of Life Options.
Sarah Palin, not a sitting governor nor politician just a private citizen, got Barack Hussein Obby to directly answer her and starred down the Senate with her iron sights in the bargain.
There was and is no doubt on my part that had it not been for McCain’s Rules of Engagement restrictions, she could have torn both Barack and Biden new ones. As she is doing now, free of all restrictions, on Facebook no less. She was always more powerful as her own woman, Sadie. Not chained to someone else’s preconceptions of what is ‘fair’. She knows what is fair and she knows the enemy’s weaknesses.
Abbott and Costello
Excellent pairing choice, Danny.
Just so we are clear, I was referring to the ‘voice over’ flag video, when the man was describing the type of women who supported BHO (the squishy, single women, who love social programs and the 60% of married, Christian women, who supported Bush). I, clearly, do not fall into either category.
That’s why I really liked Palin. Nothing squishy about her. It’s her ability to squish that captured my attention. I think 99.9% of her peers, which included female voters and politicians of both genders were threatened by her emotionally and politically. She was not going to play by the same rules and we all know how the usual suspects, love their rules and create new ones to suit their needs, as they go merrily down the road.
Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, did not apply to Sarah. What you saw or what you were allowed to hear was a real person – a real anomaly in politics.
BrianE,
thanks for the post. i think it reaffirms what i said – that the health care industry colludes to keep the # of doctors at a low level, thereby increasing profits by limiting the supply. the fact that Congress enacted legislation to create a cap for government-sponsored doctors back in the 1990′s reflects the political ideals of that time – namely, smaller government role/costs in Medicare/Medicaid.
a possible way to resolve the dearth of doctors would be to increase goverment funding for medical schools to allay the costs to the individual students…but the question is, where does that money come from? ten years ago it would’ve been easy to find, but with Iraq drawing funds away (now and for the for at least the next ten years) there doesn’t seem to be an easy way to fix the problem.
btw, i can’t help but pick up a very scared vibe on this board. for the most part, people are paranoid about Obama. it would be interesting if it weren’t so silly – and slightly pathetic. it’s just a black man as president with a different way of doing things, it’s not like he wants to send us to war against a nation for no legal, legitimate reason and then keep us there for 40 years despite all legal challenges to the contrary. sheesh
oh, and if anyone thinks Sarah Palin is some sort of politically savvy genius…well, it’s probably too late for you. here’s your sign
ten years ago it would’ve been easy to find, but with Iraq drawing funds away (now and for the for at least the next ten years) there doesn’t seem to be an easy way to fix the problem.
People who think Iraq is sucking off so much of the GDP that you can’t even ‘easily’ find funds for your boondoggles anymore, will need a retool soon enough.
Again, once you program the tools on one thing, i.e. Iraq, you got em for a warranted period. That’s the beauty of the free market. Insurance is only for when the tools fail.
There is the psychological problem of so many Americans feeling afraid that they would attribute their fears to being sent to Iraq to dodge IEDs, mortars, and snipers. They’re, mostly, not there, but they act as if they were justifiably afraid because they were sent there, that they are there.
They aren’t there, however. So what are they afraid of?
basically, the industry estimates how many doctors are retiring in a given year, then adds in the average inflation of patients requiring medical attention, and then churns out a number. for example, say in 2020 there will be a need for 10,000 new doctors entering the field (post-residency)
It’s easy to justify centralized planning when the assumption is made that everybody else is doing it, that they won’t fail unless somebody steps up to the plate as an adversary.
This assumes that centralized planning won’t fail on its own merits, that it works.
When people feel enough motivation due to fear, they often call on the law to protect them from what they can’t handle themselves. And if they believe their opponents are using centralized, totalitarian planning, then they will ask, “why don’t we use it since we’re better at it”.
>>a possible way to resolve the dearth of doctors would be to increase goverment funding for medical schools to allay the costs to the individual students>>
Maybe. Maybe an answer would be for the government to just get out of the way. California just recently added another campus in Irvine with an emphasis on law degrees. How many schools do you know of that have opened recently that emphasized medicine? I don’t know of _any_. Why not?
I agree with you that if it is determined that the AMA “regulates” the number of candidates for medical degrees, then it’s effectively a monopoly and should be prosecuted by the government, not funded by the government.
The above can’t be for real, so I’m going to assume that mcnulty08 is doing a very clever riff on a.) knee-jerk leftist memes, and b.) some people’s great disrespect for the conventions of punctuation, and c.) the thoroughly racist notion that a half white man is somehow magically an all-black man, and that said black man is genetically fated to govern like a tinhorn socialist because skin color, apparently, dictates that approach, and d.) a scrupulous disregard for the fact that all “legal challenges” have failed, which to us “scared vibers” would indicate that the war in Iraq is, indeed, legal.
But since I know the above is a put-on, I won’t argue with it.
Re above: punctuation = capitalization
Naw, Mart. Fire away.
http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/15/coffee-tea-and-me
Neo has outdone herself on the funny here. Please read, Book and company.
Throw this post under the FWIW category:
1) Most doctors are becoming specialists (eg dermatology is hot right now), very few are GPs.
2) Medical school finances are complex and heavily, heavily subsidized (via NIH and other agencies). The Federal Government is far more than the camel’s nose under the tent.
3) Medical schools have given almost NO strategic thought to the consequences of healthcare reform. (This obliviousness shocks me.)
4) Therefore, it seems predictable that the following will happen:
a) As demand for doctors continues to rise (aging population)
b) Supply of doctors will go down (for specialists and gps) due to government interference
c) The government will regulate medical training and career choice ever more stringently in an effort to solve the problem that they will have created. And the government WILL regulate. An easy call because the universities are already hooked on subsidies.
Healthcare “deform” is not just about training doctors. Nobody is giving much thought to the knock-on effects on basic biomedical research. Once you’ve demonized big pharma, and scared away entrepreneurial scientists, what is going to happen to the capital and incentives necessary to fund that research?
My wife is a top administrator at a top medical school. I feel like Cassandra with my nose pressed against the glass. The people running these institutions are smart, energetic, dedicated, and ethical — but woefully myopic.
The people running these institutions are smart, energetic, dedicated, and ethical — but woefully myopic.
Probably because they’re more interested in concrete effects on health than they are interested in aggregating power to themselves. So they will, just like the Republicans, always be at a disadvantage when confronted by such schemes from those like Soros, Ayers, Alinsky, and Obama.
For the school business, that’s a pretty much status quo effect. Innovation isn’t really rewarded there.
Charles, you may well be correct that the following was not serious, “it’s just a black man as president with a different way of doing things”, But I have just about had enough of people pulling the race card simply because there are some (actually many now) people who disagree with said black man. I had some commenter on another blog that I read call me a racist simply because I disagreed with BO. This is getting real old and though I am neither violent nor do I espouse violence, I expect this is going to be one of the things that brings everything to a head and violence will be the unfortunate result.
i’ve gone over this about 10 times, and it’s still completely random and has no correlation to what i wrote:
==================
on 15 Aug 2009 at 11:20 am 36Ymarsakar
basically, the industry estimates how many doctors are retiring in a given year, then adds in the average inflation of patients requiring medical attention, and then churns out a number. for example, say in 2020 there will be a need for 10,000 new doctors entering the field (post-residency)
It’s easy to justify centralized planning when the assumption is made that everybody else is doing it, that they won’t fail unless somebody steps up to the plate as an adversary.
This assumes that centralized planning won’t fail on its own merits, that it works.
When people feel enough motivation due to fear, they often call on the law to protect them from what they can’t handle themselves. And if they believe their opponents are using centralized, totalitarian planning, then they will ask, “why don’t we use it since we’re better at it”.
==================
what. the F. are you talking about?
and yes Charles Martel, that was a put-out. because rich white people are generally very, very xenophobic and racist, i like to poke fun at their awkwardness when trying to criticize a black president (and yeah he’s black, people don’t have to try and point out that he had a white mother – like it makes a huge difference to anyone).
quick anecdote, i was with a woman last week and she made a negative comment about interracial relationships, which was shocking to me. i mean, i didn’t stop what i was doing with her, but man, that’s just so weird. i mean, who cares if white and black people wanna get it on? rolling stones had that stuff right on forty years ago
on a lighter note, i like how white people view racism. “if i disagree with Obama, people will call me a racist!!! it’s a catch 22!!!!” Christ, get over yourself.
and G. Frederick… “with said black man”. just say Obama. if i didn’t know better, i would think you a racist. you’re not prejudiced, are you? because this man is very valuable, despite his racial handicap. he’s my attorney, and we were sitting poolside at the Pogo Lounge in the Beverly Hills Hotel…
oh i’m sorry, I went all Hunter Thompson there for a moment
thanks for the post. i think it reaffirms what i said – that the health care industry colludes to keep the # of doctors at a low level, thereby increasing profits by limiting the supply-McNulty
I’m curious what you mean by “health care industry”, because that’s not what the article said.
The AMA acts as a guild, and yes it does influence the number of doctors, but the cap was placed by Congress, not the “health care industry”.
And as my post stated, slots are going unused in at least one university because doctor’s are choosing specialties that maximize their return on investment. I don’t blame people for making those decisions, I blame the government medddling through Medicare reimbursement rates that skews the system.
If I remember correctly there was a surplus of doctors in the 80′s and early 90′s.
What this highlights is how crappy the government is at planning. They’ve done such a poor job with Medicare, with Medicaid, with central planning of all kinds– and so we’re going to reward the government by turning nearly 20% of the economy over to them? Are we insane?
The “health care industry” is the most regulated industry in America. A few years ago our public hospital in this small town re-modeled and turned all of its rooms into private rooms. And they did it in a way that won’t allow the rooms to be turned back to multiple patient rooms. Why?
Because a government panel has determined how many beds our community will have. They allocated beds on a regional basis. The hospital wasn’t getting any more beds, and any excess beds would sit unused, so they did the only sensible thing. Since the hospital has to survive on x number of beds, regardless of the overhead, by making them private rooms they can charge more for them. Certainly bizarre, but that’s what you get when the government gets involved.
oh, and if anyone thinks Sarah Palin is some sort of politically savvy genius…McNuts
Genius was your word.
Obama will do more to wreck race relations in this country than any president before him. That’s because he will do nothing to put a stop to the manipulations by his Chicago Mafia to declare all opposition to him racist. As G. Frederick says, that kind of lie is going to make a lot of people angry.
There is an opening here, though. Conservatives should begin addressing what I call “the Black Genocide.” The Guttmacher Institute, a left-wing think tank that adores abortion—and therefore can be safely quoted to leftists—reports that the rate of fetus dismemberment among black women is 5 times higher than among white women. About 35% of all black pregnancies are aborted at Planned Parenthood charnel houses, which seem to populate African-American neighborhoods in far greater numbers, proportionate to population, than white.
Hmmmmmmmmm.
Now, how is it that when there is a 90% chance that a black baby will grow up to be a Democrat, lovers of black humanity like Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer and Barney Wectum disregard the destruction of tens of thousands of safe, co-opted-in-advance potential votes each year? Oh the humanity! (Wait—I forgot, fetuses are not human. Well, they’re human, but they’re not persons. Kind of like Dred Scott.)
More intriguing yet, how does our so-called “black” president (I guess his white side has been assimilated, Borg-style) stand by and not protest the destruction of so many black children?
If we can start planting some overdue doubts in African Americans’ minds about the orchestrated deaths of their children, maybe we can also point out how the orchestration extends to vile public schools and corrupt city governments. We can suggest that people do not have to live in the moral and physical poverty of places like Detroit, New Orleans or East St. Louis.
Yes, we can expect the left to try to deflect that insight by proclaiming its messengers to be racist, but there’s a counter: “How is it that in the hands of a party that loves you, with decades of access to public monies, and leadership by people of the proper color, your cities are such terrible places to live? How is our pointing that out racist?”
mcnulty, I’m going to have to admit to a bit of envy here. I know very, very few rich white people, so I can’t vouch for them the way you can.
But speaking as a non-wealthy white, I have no problems whatsoever criticizing America’s first mulatto president.
BrianE,
You’re right, “health care industry” was a very generic term. Specifically, I meant companies and groups with monetary interests in the healthcare markets – including lobbying firms. Congress pushed through the caps in the ’90s because that’s what the lobbying firms representing doctors wanted. Remember, in the Clinton administration the Congress tried to cut down on government spending and influence, and a way they tried to do this was by capping the # of doctors in the Medicare/Medicaid programs – i.e. they wanted to keep costs down by not letting in too many doctors.
Sorry that wasn’t clear. Like I said, the excerpts you pulled refer to the lobbying done on behalf of doctors; the doctors who wanted fewer future doctors so they could keep a larger share of the profits in the market.
and no, Sarah Palin is not a political genius. she’s a small time politician who lucked into incredible public popularity due to her good looks and folksy demeanor. she’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer either. really, rethink your support of her – she’s awful.
Congress pushed through the caps in the ’90s because that’s what the lobbying firms representing doctors wanted.
Are you referring to the AMA? What other lobbying firms are you referring too?
Remember, in the Clinton administration the Congress tried to cut down on government spending and influence, and a way they tried to do this was by capping the # of doctors in the Medicare/Medicaid programs – i.e. they wanted to keep costs down by not letting in too many doctors.
You’ve lost me. How does scarcity reduce costs? You must have taken a different econ class than me.
she’s a small time politician who lucked into incredible public popularity due to her good looks and folksy demeanor. she’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer either. really, rethink your support of her – she’s awful.
You think she’s awful. I think you’re stupid.
I submit this statement of yours as evidence of my claim.
What evidence do you present?
Who is the sharpest knife?
By the way, as way of an apology, I don’t think you’re stupid, since I don’t know you.
Let’s just say, yours was a silly statement.
Ymarsakar
Thanks for the neo link. What a delightful reprieve.
BrianE…NOBODY but NOBODY who supported Obama in any way or form is in any way qualified to criticize Sarah Palin on the basis of anything whatsoever….such as intelligence (Ivy League sophistry versus real life, hands-on experiences), grasp of history (Obama’s Cairo speech, “my uncle helped liberate Auschwitz), accomplishments (voted “present” versus Alayeska-Canada Pipeline deal), political values (Chicago Crook County politician versus Alaskan political reformer ), human values (support of killing born-alive abortion babies versus “Trig”), education (where are those transcripts? SATs?), or eloquence (the Teleprompter in Chief versus Palin with no teleprompter).
That’s why her pathetic Democrat/Lefty opponents can only resort to namecalling such as “cooties” and “the sharpest knife in the drawer”.
Why are leftists suddenly opposed to dull knives? Justice Sotomayor is a very dull knife and they fawned all over her.
Ymarsakar … thought I would return the favor with this link. Right up your alley
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/08/13/why-we-wont-get-bin-laden/#more-30359
Perfect, Charles. Absolutely perfect!
>because rich white people are generally very, very xenophobic and racist, i like to poke fun at their awkwardness when trying to criticize a black president (and yeah he’s black, people don’t have to try and point out that he had a white mother – like it makes a huge difference to anyone).”
Wow, that is one incredibly racist paragraph itself.
Apparently, if you’re half black… then you’re black. Period.
But if you’re half-white, then you’re not white at all.
That sounds sickeningly like the “one drop of Negro blood” argument, with some kind of thinly veneered attempt to make it sound acceptable.
I’ve generally found poorer white people to express more racial and xenophobic comments, on the average, than richer white people. And I’ve found the same to be true among black people as well. Hispanics, too! Personally I think this is because they spend nearly all their time isolated within their racially homogenous communities, and rely on distortions to inform their misconceptions.
I don’t know what excuse the author of that paragraph has for his (or her) misconceptions.
By the way, as way of an apology, I don’t think you’re stupid,
Fear makes wise men stupid, and stupid men wise.
Apparently, if you’re half black… then you’re black. Period.
But if you’re half-white, then you’re not white at all.
Benefits of white privilege. Keeps em in check.
File this under:
Ask a simple question and watch a simpleton try to answer it.
http://brainshavings.com/2009/08/zach-lahn-corners-barack-obama.html
Sadie,
Interesting response by the President.
I’m not sure I would use the Post Office as an example of private-public competition.
UPS and FedEX are legislatively barred from delivering certain types of of materials, and the Post Office is constantly raising prices for its services while the federal government increases funding to the agency.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728/ap_on_go_ot/us_postal_problems;_ylt=A0KjqmmxN4hKOdkAHGkPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTEyMGNtdmhnBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMTEEY29sbwNzcDEEdnRpZAMEbANXUzE-
So much for the Post Office.
This leaves us with the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac option. Private companies traded on the stock exchange. The only problem with the model is that everyone knew (or at least suspected) that the federal government would always back up the losses.
Given that implicit guarantee by the federal government, executives of Fannie Mae engaged in reckless practices that contributed to the collapse of the financial markets.
Yeah, that’s the type of organization we want in charge of 20% of the nation’s economy.
The argument is, of course, that a federal insurance agency can operate with lower overhead, since there would be no need for “profits”. So all of this is to reduce costs about 12%. There are estimates we could lower health care costs up to 10% by passing tort reform and we could do this without dismantling an entire industry.
It looks like the President is backing away from a public option, but then, looks can be deceiving.
Here’s an interesting timeline of Fannie Mae. Surprising the history stops at 2004.
http://www.alliemae.org/historyoffanniemae.html
No matter how it is structured, there is always only a veneer separating a government entity from politics. If any government agency operated as a private company, totally insulated from politics– it would be a private company.
And no matter how much a politician would like this public insurance agency to be independent, when premiums are raised, politicians would inevitabley feel the heat. What’s the first thing that would be sacrificed? Independence.
Liberals are really trying to get water to flow uphill.
Since Medicare was always the vehicle that was going to usher in universal health care, why don’t Democrats just allow anyone into Medicare? The structure already exists. There’s a flourishing private market supplementing Medicare. An infusion of new premiums would give a much needed injection of capital into the system.
Cost containment? Medicare can just continue to reduce its payment schedule. Cost shifting onto private insurance will drive private insurance premiums to a level that everyone would take the Medicare option.
Timeline? It wouldn’t even take the 15-20 years the President suggested it would take to move to a single payer system. This scenario might only take 5-10 years.
Downside? Oh, possibly bankruptcy of Medicare, bankruptcy of the federal government, collapse of the world financial markets, war, famine.
But then again, maybe not.
OK, the collapse of the world financial system might be more than 5 years off, since the US is in the middle of the pack in term of public debt as a percentage of GDP.
A touch of hyperbole, perhaps.
While I was having my apocalyptic episode, a thought struck me at church, and no, the sermon wasn’t about prophecy.
I think there is a collective unease about the economic future of the country, whether fueled by the overactive negativity of the doomsayers or by an unspoken, but understood sense that you can’t live beyond your means forever. It’s a very middle America sensibility. So the country bought a lottery ticket.
Liberals are still sure it’s a winning ticket; while conservatives after turning a rhetorical blue shade of blue trying to convince the country the odds weren’t worth the gamble, are left grimly determined.
OK, maybe a better metaphor is someone holding a pair of fives going all in before the turn. Sometimes you hit the small straight or that third five, but most of the time you are relegated to the sidelines regretting making such a stupid bet.
BrainE – Have you been channeling Groucho Marx, you just said the magic word, COLLAPSE, the duck has dropped and it’s going quakers!
Julian Mann: “Who in their right mind would want to be managing these toxic assets?”
(see link below, it is a window into the future and it’s not 5 years out).
Keep Mann’s quote in mind for the next Town Hall Meeting and before the Town Hall has a foreclosure sign on it – the toxic assets are more harmful than the Swine Flu and there is no vaccine currently available.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601208&sid=aHgm_OyPHTws
About the post office’s current financial situation. Looks like dire need hits the fan about Sept 30.
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1337-USPS-Threatens-Health-Pension-Default.html
damn, i totally forgot about my posts this weekend. my bad. hopefully people are still hitting this webpage.
BrianE,
a common mistake is to assume that the economy works “the way it’s supposed to”. free market principles are often quite wrong based on the simple assumptions we make. for example, you said “how does scarcity reduce cost?”, but what you didn’t realize (or what I didn’t make explicitly clear) was that, in my post, i was referring to the cost carried by the Government, and not by the overall health care industry for services like Medicare and Medicaid.
to illustrate my point – the Republican Congress in the 1990′s tried to cut back on te size and scope of government, and one way of doing this was to limit the size increases in Medicare and Medicaid – two Government subsidized services that were the antithesis of the Republican Party at that time. the Republican strategy was to “cap” the # of new doctors in the Medicare and Medicaid program, thereby limiting the ability of these programs to grow.
that’s what I was going for. i just assume that we all understand that doctors don’t want more doctors – it increases competition and makes their jobs less valuable. and please don’t argue otherwise, else you reveal yourself to be a socialist.
also BrianE, don’t apologize for trying to flame someone on a message board. if you want to insult my intelligence, stick by your guns! “your hate has made you powerful”
and yes, Sarah Palin is a poor politician. she lacks the intellectual vigor that marks most successful public leaders (“what newspapers do you read?” “oh…all of them, i just can’t name a single one”), she lacks the ability to understand complex situations (i.e. supporting abstinence-only education when her daughter got pregnant because apparently her boyfriend didn’t even know the oldest form of birth control – PULLING OUT*), and can’t even lie well (“oh well Russia is really close to my home state so of course I know all about foreign policy”).
really, she just lacks the basic things you look for in a leader. so no, she’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer. she’s the dullest spoon.
oh and to Mike Dex,
if you read my post and you can’t figure out that race doesn’t matter to me, then you probably support Sarah Palin
now, if you don’t mind, i bid you all farewell – you all probably scored 3′s on your AP exams in high school and get mad at people who got all that college credit.
*yes I know pulling out is not an effective form of birth control, but i think it’s funny – both during and after when she’s cleaning up.
/smiling quietly to myself right now while she gets a towel
//don’t worry she’s on the pill. remember, i scored 5′s on my AP exams and i know the value of real birth control
annnnnd
res ipsa loquitor…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9go38MgZ4w8
“all the things that have been in front of me over all these years”
HOLY. F’ING. BALLS. if you watch that clip and can’t discern how incredibly dense she is…well res ipsa loquitor
Dense, did someone say Dense.
Palin was running as VP, this guy got the top job and not only did he not understand the complexity of the health care industry – he was totally clueless in reading public opinion and attitude. Hell, he just thought he would ‘community organize’ the USA.
http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/obamaclown/
Sadie (i’ll just go ahead and say Sexy Sadie)
God, your board skills are awful. it’s a game of give and take, i give some inappropriate jokes and you come back with that drivel? “Dense, did someone say Dense.”
i would’ve gone for the “Obama’s father tried pulling out in Kenya and look what happened” joke. Or “you’ll never see a Republican President pulling out till the job’s done”.
Sexy Sadie, res ipsa loquitor
I’ll just go ahead and say…
If it wasn’t for bad taste, you’d have no taste at all.
p.s. you do not have my permission to call me anything other than the one posted.
mcnulty 08 says:
> oh and to Mike Dex,
> if you read my post and you can’t figure out that race doesn’t matter to me, then you probably support Sarah Palin
It is true I was in a rush and my quick scroll through the comments did not reveal who was being quoted, so I didn’t find the original complete post. So this time I read them all and did find it. It is true that your entire post (#46) indicates that you’re not racist, and in fact you react quite negatively towards racists. Commendable. But that paragraph remains racist, to me.
However, I believe there are a lot of people out there who cry “racism!” when no racism exists. They use it as a bludgeon to silence dissent. Hell, for all I know they may even believe it is racism. There was a recent post about the Jew who, while driving with his family, was the target of verbal assault from another car of young toughs. “I can’t believe I was just threatened by a bunch of anti-Semites who don’t know anything about me!” was his reaction. He continued to feel terrible about what they’d done to him… until further down the avenue he encountered them again… harassing some non-Jews in another car with exactly the same language used against him. He realized he’d been wrong to assume anti-Semitism. As the many people whom I am referring to are absolutely wrong to infer racism wherever they think they it.
For example: The Obama-socialism Joker poster is not racist. It’s brilliant propaganda. As soon as the threat from the propaganda was realized, the Obama supporters, with total predictability, began crying “racism!” Fortunately, the Gang Who Cried Wolf too many times is, more and more these days, now being ignored.
I do support Sarah Palin, by the way. Perhaps not wholeheartedly, but she would have received serious consideration from me for President compared to the rest of the lightweights in the Republican primary of ’08. I was horrified by the Couric interview and Sarah Palin’s responses have given me cause for reservation. She’s got some serious studying to do, I agree, before taking on the mantle of Ronald Reagan, but she has impressive political skills, savvy, and a solid conservative core that won’t steer her wrong. It’s OK with me that you can’t see these qualities.
> now, if you don’t mind, i bid you all farewell – you all probably scored 3’s on your AP exams in high school and get mad at people who got all that college credit.
No AP courses in my high school in my day, which was a long time ago. I did score 98,97,92 on my GRE, which I believe in that year put me in the top 0.5% of all GRE takers. So choose another slam, if slams are your cup of tea.
I don’t myself like to engage in gratuitous slammage. One sign of a quality person in this civilized day and age is that they’ve adequately prepared for their own retirement, and I’m *way* behind the curve on that measure. I’ve got plenty of reasons, and behaviors in the past, for which humility is a proper response. I don’t make a great deal of money either, which is another measure of success. But I am mad at no one whose success outreaches my own, and I’m not envious of anyone for any reason. I might sneer at a 40-something guy in a top-of-the-line sports car stuck in rush hour traffic next to me (especially if he’s wearing cool 20′s-something shades), but not out of envy, nor because I’m certain he must be exploiting people of color somehow, to be able to afford what he clearly affords… but I just wouldn’t spend my money on the same choices, and I rather think he’s more likely compensating or afraid of old age. I’ve got as little use for his choices as I do those who take ocean cruises to tourist traps. But it’s their money, their lives, and they’re free to enjoy themselves however they wish to.
McNulty08,
You’ve cut quite a swath through here, like a little hurricane.
I apologized for calling you stupid because the host of this blog has asked that posters are civil to one another, and while your statement was silly, it was uncalled for to call you stupid. I’m not sure how that rises to the level of hate, but then there may be a little projection going on.
in one way, it’s a good thing, because the schools ensure that the current system that fabulously rewards doctors remains in place; and in a way, it’s awful, because it limits who can and cannot be a doctor. essentially, it is “collusion”, somewhat similar to what Pepsi and Coca-Cola do – two companies that have such control over the market that they can determine how much profit they make by never raising or lowering prices too dramatically.- McNulty08
I would suggest you look up the definition of collusion. Whatever rational Congress and the administration used to cap the number of residencies in 1997, tht is not collusion.
I would agree with you that the AMA has too much influence, and think this is a good example of the difficulty of central planning and why I am opposed to turning over health care insurance and by extension the health care industry to the federal government.
and yes, Sarah Palin is a poor politician. she lacks the intellectual vigor that marks most successful public leaders (”what newspapers do you read?” “oh…all of them, i just can’t name a single one”), she lacks the ability to understand complex situations (i.e. supporting abstinence-only education when her daughter got pregnant because apparently her boyfriend didn’t even know the oldest form of birth control – PULLING OUT*), and can’t even lie well (”oh well Russia is really close to my home state so of course I know all about foreign policy”).
really, she just lacks the basic things you look for in a leader. so no, she’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer. she’s the dullest spoon.-McNultty08
That’s your evidence? Rather than refute these superficial arguments, let’s just trade youtube videos.
Here’s Barack Obama demonstrating why folks assume he has difficulty communicating without a teleprompter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc&feature=related
By the way, you never did say who those lobbying companies colluding with Congress were.
And who is the sharpest knife?
Are you using claims of superior intelligence to validate your arguments? That probably won’t work around here.
I assume the 08 in your name stands for the year you graduated from high school. Are you attending college?
>>I assume the 08 in your name stands for the year you graduated from high school. Are you attending college?>>
Heh. My thoughts were along the same lines. I don’t think I could come up with quite the same succinct put down though.
My mother used to use the “Youth is wasted on the young” line with me. I hated it. She was right.
Mike Dex,
i’m on the same page with you. sorry if i came across as harsh – i’m guessing i’m a lot younger than most people here. on message boards you can poke fun/be a bit inappropriate and it’s usually seen as playing around/having a good time.
and i’m glad you understand the vastly complex and often confusing “frame of reference” that each individual has. grasping this concept goes a long way towards understanding human nature, and the film through which folks view the world. and i agree, guys driving sports cars make me laugh, not only because they’re trying too hard to look important, but also because they think driving a sports car is important (or having a big house, or cool shades, or looking young).
and BrianE,
collusion doesn’t have to be intentional. it can be an unintended consequence. my whole point is that established doctors have very little to gain by increasing the # of new doctors coming into the market. therefore, they work to ensure that the # of doctors doesn’t expand beyond what the basic need is/would be in the future. the fact that so many doctors, insurance companies, medical schools, etc. all agree on this basic principle (limit the # of new doctors to control the market and guarantee future profits) may or may not be the goal, but it certainly is the outcome.
and you want me to list lobbying groups involved with the medical profession? i mean, if you work as a lobbyist in D.C., you definitely have clients involved in the medical profession (whether it be insurance, physicians, pharmacy, etc etc).
btw, don’t feel bad about calling me stupid. i’ve called a lot of people stupid so far. i hope that’s obvious.
and if you’re going to make fun of me with that joke, don’t call me a “little hurricane”, call me a “tropical depression with limp winds and waning stamina”. see, THAT’S a put down.
finally, to make your argument about Obama vs. Palin stronger, I wouldn’t start showing youtube clips. i mean, i wouldn’t argue that Palin>Obama, or Palin>fifth grader, or Palin>zygote, but hey…to each his own.
p.s. Jimmy McNulty was a character from the t.v. show The Wire, possibly the most socially relevant and insightful program in the last 20 years. the 08 was established a year ago, it’s a moniker i use on all sorts of webpages.
p.p.s. i’m smart because i knew what type of person Sarah Palin was the moment I heard her speak. B.A., Masters, etc. doesn’t make any difference, and if you think it does you missed the point of my mocking comments
p.p.p.s. Suek, i’m wasted during my youth but i certainly don’t consider that to be wasting my youth.
oh and Sadie,
well alright, but next time don’t pick a name that’s easy to mock. i took it light on you with that Beatles reference, i mean heck i could’ve gone for the dungeons and whips joke but i refrained. be thankful if nothing else
i’m guessing i’m a lot younger than most people here.
Yes you are grasshopper.
Anyway, the point is that the medical profession and medical markets are incredibly complex, and they don’t necessarily work the way you think they do.
How do you know what I think? They (medical markets) may work exactly like I think.
med schools will collude…
essentially, it is “collusion”, somewhat similar to what Pepsi and Coca-Cola do…
collusion is illegal, btw. i used “” over the word “demand” above because it’s an artificial demand…
the health care industry colludes to keep the # of doctors at a low level,
it can be an unintended consequence.
Let me get this straight. Collusion can be the unintended consequence of …collusion?
and you want me to list lobbying groups involved with the medical profession? i mean, if you work as a lobbyist in D.C., you definitely have clients involved in the medical profession (whether it be insurance, physicians, pharmacy, etc etc).
Yes, but I only want the names of a few whose clients would collude to control the number of doctors. In any market, don’t assume the goals of the players are aligned. Why would it be in the interest of the insurance industry to limit the number of doctors, or the pharmaceutical industry. Both would benefit from a glut of doctors.
and if you’re going to make fun of me with that joke, don’t call me a “little hurricane”,
You’d only rise to the level of a “big” hurricane if your arguments had had any effect. Scanning the landscape of this thread, it looks mostly like a bunch of lawn chairs strewn about. Yes, you might call your visit here a topical depression with light and variable winds. Unable to determine their direction though.
finally, to make your argument about Obama vs. Palin stronger, I wouldn’t start showing youtube clips. i mean, i wouldn’t argue that Palin>Obama, or Palin>fifth grader, or Palin>zygote, but hey…to each his own.
You didn’t finish your thought. It goes like this: To make your argument stronger, I wouldn’t…. I would…..
Apparently you didn’t get it. I wasn’t asserting that Palin>Obama, only that you can find incidents when any person looks foolish, uninformed, even stupid. But to draw a conclusion based on a few events is foolishness itself, and possibly dangerous.
I don’t think Obama is as vapid as the video makes him, and you would be served to adopt the same attitude about Palin.
and yes, Sarah Palin is a poor politician.
She may not be a genius (neither is Obama for that matter and I mean that in the sense of an IQ in excess of 140), but she’s certainly not a “poor politician”. In her short career she’s shown herself to be a good politician– rising to the level of governor in a short time, reforming her own state party, negotiating a pipeline deal against the interest of her state’s benefactors and yes, being chosen as a vice-president candidate.
You may argue she’s not as smart as you would like in a politician, her principles are not the ones you value, even she’s too attractive to be taken seriously, but your examples fall short of making the case that she’s a “poor politician”.
What is funny, in a sort of bizarre, SNL type of funny, is that her critics, at least the ones blowing the most steam, have never actually accomplished anything of value (in the sense of productive value) other than contributing to global warming (in the metaphorical sense that their writings are an indication of the level of hot, moist CO2 they would expel).
p.p.s. i’m smart because i knew what type of person Sarah Palin was the moment I heard her speak.
I recognize this as a snark, because no intelligent person would make a statement like that. Possibly a liberal, but you’re making the case for being smart.
i mean heck i could’ve gone for the dungeons and whips joke but i refrained.
And for that, everyone reading this blog is grateful.
McNulty08, anytime you’d like to make legitimate arguments advancing a point of view, I’d welcome the debate.
BrianE:
Anyway, the point is that the medical profession and medical markets are incredibly complex, and they don’t necessarily work the way you think they do.
How do you know what I think? They (medical markets) may work exactly like I think.
med schools will collude…
essentially, it is “collusion”, somewhat similar to what Pepsi and Coca-Cola do…
collusion is illegal, btw. i used “” over the word “demand” above because it’s an artificial demand…
the health care industry colludes to keep the # of doctors at a low level,
it can be an unintended consequence.
Let me get this straight. Collusion can be the unintended consequence of …collusion?
———–
i like what you did there. that’s good. it shows you’re stepping up your game a bit. not that your argument makes any sense – all you did was take all my comments about collusion and put them together, completely ignoring the context of my statement (to wit: collusion CAN be an unintended consequence, as in theoretically – but i meant that collusion, in this case, was probably intentional). nice.
it’s disengenuous of you to do that, but again, to each his own.
BrianE:
and if you’re going to make fun of me with that joke, don’t call me a “little hurricane”,
You’d only rise to the level of a “big” hurricane if your arguments had had any effect. Scanning the landscape of this thread, it looks mostly like a bunch of lawn chairs strewn about. Yes, you might call your visit here a topical depression with light and variable winds. Unable to determine their direction though.
—–
you did it! you made a joke that was actually on point and kind of funny! that’s how this whole blog post thing works. although my joke about ED and poor sexual performance was funnier (again, to each his own)
BrianeE: (in response to my calling Palin a poor politician)
What is funny, in a sort of bizarre, SNL type of funny, is that her critics, at least the ones blowing the most steam, have never actually accomplished anything of value (in the sense of productive value) other than contributing to global warming (in the metaphorical sense that their writings are an indication of the level of hot, moist CO2 they would expel).
—-
and then you go and drop that lame one.
BrianE:
p.p.s. i’m smart because i knew what type of person Sarah Palin was the moment I heard her speak.
I recognize this as a snark, because no intelligent person would make a statement like that. Possibly a liberal, but you’re making the case for being smart.
—-
and then you drop a lamer joke.
before this devolves into spitefulness, thank you all for your time. i know i haven’t converted you to reason, but that was never my intention. if you go back and read my posts, people’s counterposts, etc etc, it is clear that the only thing that i got wrong (like, actually WRONG, since 90% of this is all opinion) is to not clarify early enough what i meant by collusion – i.e. doctor’s advocacy groups trying to limit new doctors etc etc. you’re right, BrianE, i failed to be clear and I should’ve have included the big Pharms, insurance industry, etc. that was my error, and i apologize.
in closing, let me remind all who wasted time reading these posts (and they are wastes of time) that serious intellectual ability is something honed over the years, and is not – is NOT – what was on display on this website. i spent 80% of my time being a smart-aleck, and people took the time – took valuable time out of their day – to respond to me in a serious manner. they didn’t get it – they didn’t get that this isn’t important. what could they have done with their time? read a book, talked to an old friend, catch up with the neighbors – anything would be more productive than this. the responses posed as critical thinking are far from it – they are sophomoric arguments disguised as decisive conclusions (sophistry in the 21st century!)
so, please, take away from this message board the understanding that what i engaged in was satire.
and if that doesn’t make sense to you, you probably voted for Sarah Palin
btw, don’t feel bad about calling me stupid. i’ve called a lot of people stupid so far. i hope that’s obvious.
Very, but it hardly excuses you.
If I prefer to ‘you tube’ my point it’s no more or less a reference than the one you made below:
“Doctors can’t be the altruistic heroes of t.v. shows like E.R. and Chicago Hope”
It’s visual and it’s film.
>>collusion doesn’t have to be intentional. it can be an unintended consequence. >>
Sorry. Impossible. That’s sort of like saying that up isn’t up just because it isn’t down as far as down. Or “it depends on what the meaning of is is”. Or something equally irrational.
Collusion _must_ be intentional – or it isn’t collusion. That’s right up there with someone being called a liar because s/he is wrong. You can be wrong without being a liar.
Words have meanings. If you attempt to use words while applying different meanings, they become truly meaningless, and you might as well be barking. You’d make as much sense.
tacti collusion – i.e. unintended collusion my bad for not being specific
>>Suek, i’m wasted during my youth but i certainly don’t consider that to be wasting my youth.>>
Ah. That’s because you’re young.
Speaking of collusion…
I think this _does_ qualify:
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/08/health-care-trading-cards-collect-em.html
I been trying to focus on why the cost of health care has sky rocketed the past 15-20 years, other than some of the observations made on this thread and the vast explosion in specialties.
Among my immediate circle of friends ranging in age from their 50′s to mid 70′s, the one consistent outrage is the cost of prescription drugs. Most are hitting the donut by June or July and then the failure of Part D (while still paying the monthly premium) hits and hits hard. We are paying monthly premiums into BC/BS, which protect and cover us financial, since Medicare was not designed to be more than a stop gap among the poor, disabled and impoverished seniors, some of whom qualify for Medicaid and therefore pay a set price for their prescriptions.
All of the above to make a couple of points:
Once the pharmaceutical companies starting advertising on TV, the costs started to sky rocket. If the FCC eliminated vodka and cigarettes, items we can still purchase w/o a prescription, why continue the practice of advertising that which we cannot. The costs of advertising is enormous and they are included in the cost of every pill.
The second point is the cost of long term health care, which for the most part affects seniors, but can and does inflict terrible economic damage to anyone of any age.
I’ll be the first to admit it, I do not have the figures at hand and only speak from what I see and hear and know *first hand, but it seems to me (prescriptions and long term care) that are taking the biggest economic bite. Unless the two points are addressed there is no reform nor ‘change’ (forgive me for using that ‘c’ word).
* my mother is in a long term care facility. She started paying an annual premium of roughly $2700 22 years ago. The last premium was just under $4,000. Policy kicked in after 90 days. Even with the policy, out of pocket costs were $330/day plus, plus, plus for the first 90 days. I am still paying her BC/BS premiums and Part D and yes, my mom hit the donut in July (Just wrote a check for $674.64) and it’s August.
Sadie…
can you explain “hit the donut”? I don’t think I understand it.
The term “donut hole” (or “doughnut hole”) refers to a coverage gap within the defined standard benefit under the Medicare Part D prescription drug program. Under the defined standard benefit package, there is a gap in coverage between the initial coverage limit and the catastrophic coverage threshold. Within this gap, the beneficiary pays 100% of the cost of prescription drugs before catastrophic coverage kicks in.
Since the inception of this plan the initial (I think it was $2250) and now it’s $2650 or $2750. Anyway, the cost of meds are covered for this initial amount and then it’s out of pocket up to $4600 or something close to that this year. Then catatrosphic coverage kicks in (which I had not had to deal with) but I believe Park D picks up 100% after that amount.
Bottom line, it’s $2,000 per person out of pocket and you are still paying the Part D premium during those months when one is between donut and catastrophic level.
oops..correction to “I believe (Park is Part)
In my particular circumstance, my mother’s meds increased each year, so I didn’t even bother signing her up for Part D the first year (I was getting everything she took from Canada, which was 1/3 to 1/2 of what I would have paid at Costco).
Once she was diagnosed with Alzheimers, the two recommended meds were not available in Canada (at least not by mail). So, I signed her up and there is a penalty ($5.00/month) forever over and above the premium, which has doubled in the few years the program has been operating.
By the way, that $5.00 monthly penalty is due to only non enrollment in the first year when eligible. I have no idea what the penalty would be if I enrolled her 2 or 3 years past eligibility.
i spent 80% of my time being a smart-aleck, and people took the time – took valuable time out of their day – to respond to me in a serious manner.
Don’t you feel ashamed of yourself, wasting people’s valuable time like that, being of such superior intelligence that only you can recognize your irony.
McNulty08, you might have Bookwormroom confused with Althouse.
From Althouse:
It’s pretty much all snark all the time there, with lots of sexual humor.
http://althouse.blogspot.com/
BrianE
You engaged in an elevated and thoughtful dialogue – you can live with yourself.
As for McNutty 08 – he will grow old but not up.
This is what I call not only a ‘age gap’ but a human chasm gap. It cannot be crossed. Smug and snarky do not wear well with age and for that matter are never attractive to anyone older than 8 or 9.
This was his tell…who uses the words ‘sacred vibe’. He knew damn well, where he was and what he wanted to do and say.
“btw, i can’t help but pick up a very scared vibe on this board. for the most part, people are paranoid about Obama.”
In the end, he damned himself with his own words. We don’t have to.
NOW LET’S RESUME OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING.
McNulty08 said to me,
> i agree, guys driving sports cars make me laugh, not only because they’re trying too hard to look important, but also because they think driving a sports car is important (or having a big house, or cool shades, or looking young
I’d better be clearer here.
I said it was guys driving sports cars stuck next to me in rush hour traffic that I sneered at. That was an important qualifier. Though to be fair, it is true, if I form a first impression that someone is acting twenty years younger than they are out of a desperate effort to avoid old age I generally sneer, too. But I’d better qualify that, too: If someone is acting twenty years younger than themselves out of a genuine expression from deep within themselves, I love it. And I love seeing anyone in a sports car racing down the highway, free as a bird. I love those cars, and if you’re good enough or lucky enough to be behind the wheel, well, good for you. But I love the car and it’s grace and its speed and its lines, not you. Maybe after I got to know you I’d feel differently, but until then, you’re neither good nor bad… you’re just the hands on the wheel.
As to desperately avoiding the trappings of age… Kipling said, “gracefully surrendering the things of youth” is a critical sign of maturity. Are you listening, Michael Jackson? Oh, I forgot… you’re dead.
> in closing, let me remind all who wasted time reading these posts (and they are wastes of time) that serious intellectual ability is something honed over the years, and is not – is NOT – what was on display on this website. i spent 80% of my time being a smart-aleck, and people took the time – took valuable time out of their day – to respond to me in a serious manner. they didn’t get it – they didn’t get that this isn’t important.
It’s interesting to see someone waste their time the way he has.
How much do you want to bet that his emails to other people are *always* being misinterpreted? He (or perhaps she) apparently doesn’t realize that the written word requires a certain leeway (of respect) towards the author. We have that here for each other.
McNulty08 doesn’t. What kind of a person leaves a message like that as a farewell? I am quite certain: Someone with a not-very-happy life ahead of them, dealing with other people in social settings. That much is certain.
what. the F. are you talking about?
Shouldn’t you ask your Creator why you were made incapable of comprehension on this score? What good is it going to do to direct the question at me. Do something productive and stop wasting your time.
p.s. you do not have my permission to call me anything other than the one posted.
What about me. Do I have permission to call him anything I want?
Nut here = misogynist. And we all know what my solution to that is.
It is true that your entire post (#46) indicates that you’re not racist, and in fact you react quite negatively towards racists.
Why wouldn’t he be able to put up a good front. He’s been well programmed by the racists to attack racists, except the latter are Palin and Republicans while the former are Democrats, thus the former are always immune from his cosmology.
I was horrified by the Couric interview and Sarah Palin’s responses have given me cause for reservation.
The people that advised her to go there wanted her to fail and the people that interviewed her wanted her to fail. You can figure out what happened from that.
p.p.s. i’m smart because i knew what type of person Sarah Palin was the moment I heard her speak. B.A.,
People can feel proud that in this day and age, racism has been relegated to a few people with the letter R painted after their names while prejudice and class bigotry are hailed as superior replacements. Long live the new aristocrats. (Not)
in closing, let me remind all who wasted time reading these posts (and they are wastes of time) that serious intellectual ability is something honed over the years, and is not – is NOT – what was on display on this website.
We’ve been here for years. You’re not even the last breath of a dying man. Did you really think your education honed anything that could be called ‘serious intellectual ability’? Talk about being played here for a fool and tool.
Sure, people got stupider reading your posts. What did you expect?
anything would be more productive than this
Watching Obama make an arse out of himself is a productive use of anybody’s time.
the responses posed as critical thinking are far from it
Just cause you personally suck rocks on it doesn’t mean everybody else is like you. God forbid that, were that to be the case.
and if that doesn’t make sense to you, you probably voted for Sarah Palin
You got sent feet first through an industrial wood chipper and came out crying about Sarah Palin. That had to hurt.
Ymarsakar:
p.s. you do not have my permission to call me anything other than the one posted.
What about me. Do I have permission to call him anything I want?
Indeed you do and weapon of your choice as well
A commenter here said,
“btw, i can’t help but pick up a very scared vibe on this board. for the most part, people are paranoid about Obama.”
It’s interesting to me that the commenter infers we are scared… of Obama! By the construction of that sentence, we are not afraid of the Pelosi/Reid Congress, nor of the 53% of the people who voted for Obama. No, we are afraid only of Obama.
I don’t think that’s true of us at all. We’re afraid for our country, for the direction of things, perhaps. But even at that, I don’t see fear here. I see the same slowly growing anger that I see everywhere else, too.
I don’t know if the burgeoning anger will amount to anything. It may simmer back down, as often it does in American politics. Or it may not. We may be entering the phase where the straw has broken the camel’s back; the phase where millions suddenly decide, “I’m mad as HELL and I’m not going to TAKE IT ANYMORE!”
We’ll know more after the 2010 elections.
and is not – is NOT – what was on display on this website
What was on display? Whose brain did you take out and replace in your skull to get those 5s? In case you hadn’t noticed, it is still here in view. Unlike your previous academic papers or Obama’s.
Jesters beclowning themselves, except without the perspicacity of the court jester in presence.
Now Y. I think we’re supposed to be grateful for his having blessed us by his presence. We’re such dolts, you know. His scintillating wit should have been a breath of fresh air.
Of course, then you have his comment that we were even further dolts for having responded to his comments as if they were serious and thoughtful. We should have known that they were simply ironic instead of just stupid. And we should have not wasted our time responding.
How bizarre!
He, like most of his Leftist paymasters, believe that power and wealth are the only things that matter. Intellectual discussion in furthering human knowledge is a waste of time to him and he cannot help but feel contempt for those that devote time to fields other than personal self-aggrandizement, power mongering, and wealth hoarding.
It’s quite similar to the Ayn Rand cultists who found her as a good justification for their egotism and selfishness, much as criminals feel Islam justifies their passions and crimes.
Three points to be made here
1.Drug companies advertise because it works. If we accept the following statistic, for every $1 spent on advertising, return on sales is 4.20 up to some point of diminishing returns. Increased sales means increased profits which can be spent on point 2.
2. Drug companies spend more on research than advertising though the difference is narrowing.
3. To drive the price of a drug down, make it OTC.
Generic drugs have lowered the price for many common prescription drugs. Walmart (and others) have over 100 drugs they offer for $4 for a months supply. If you ask your doctor, he will likely try and find a drug that will work from that list.
Of course, new drugs aren’t going to be on the list and can be quite expensive.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/08/02/DI2005080200881.html
I wonder what effect increased government regulations has had on the cost of long-term care facilities?
BrianE
The are many drugs that have a generic equivalent and are now OTC. The major problem with the manufacturers is that the patents have a 17-year protection. If this has changed, I am unaware of it. After the 17 years, they ‘tweak’ the recipe a tad and extend the protection for x amount of years. I would like to know the data of the 4 to 1 ratio on profits over the duration of a patent.
Do the profits increase to a higher ratio after 5 years, 10 years until the patent window closes?
Doctors are not aware of the cost of many of the drugs either.
The last time, I had a ‘bug’ (almost 5 years ago), my doctor prescribed a specific antibiotic that targeted an upper respiratory infection. The cost $11.00 for each pill over a 10-day period for a whopping total of $111. I stood at the pharmacy counter staring at the total looking like a bobble-head – utterly shocked and annoyed. The next time I saw the doctor I let her know that she had prescribed a very expensive drug. She was surprised (not as much as I was when I paid the bill) and thought that the pills were “only” $6 or $7 each.
Maybe the PDR’s should have a price list attached to the information.
I learned a valuable (expensive) lesson.