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	<title>Comments on: The moral imperative of American energy</title>
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	<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/</link>
	<description>Conservatives deal with facts and reach conclusions; liberals have conclusions and sell them as facts.</description>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/comment-page-2/#comment-122945</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 02:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=17262#comment-122945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Natural gas is going to run out. Or at least the production output won&#039;t be able to keep up with demand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Natural gas is going to run out. Or at least the production output won&#8217;t be able to keep up with demand.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachriel</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/comment-page-2/#comment-122943</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 01:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=17262#comment-122943</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JKB: &lt;em&gt;Well, if you’d read the link I provided to the First Things post by an eminent physicist from Princeton, we could look a real numbers.
&lt;/em&gt;
Sorry, but Happer is just propagating the usual myths. If he really had a point, he would submit his &#039;work&#039; to a climatology journal for peer review. He did send a petition to the Physical Society, and only a tiny percentage signed on, and it was rejected. He can&#039;t even convince others within his own peer community, much less those with expertise in climate science.

Here are some quotes from Happer: 

“This is George Orwell. This is the ‘Germans are the master race. The Jews are the scum of the earth.’ It’s that kind of propaganda,”

That sort of rhetorical excess has no place in a scientific discussion. The vast majority of climatologists are hard-working scientists. Even if they are wrong, they aren&#039;t Hitler. 

 “Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. Every time you exhale, you exhale air that has 4 percent carbon dioxide. To say that that’s a pollutant just boggles my mind. What used to be science has turned into a cult.” 

That completely and utterly shows how confused Happer is. Breathing is (generally) carbon-neutral. The carbon you exhale as CO2 came from plants that fixed the carbon from the atmosphere. 


]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JKB: <em>Well, if you’d read the link I provided to the First Things post by an eminent physicist from Princeton, we could look a real numbers.<br />
</em><br />
Sorry, but Happer is just propagating the usual myths. If he really had a point, he would submit his &#8216;work&#8217; to a climatology journal for peer review. He did send a petition to the Physical Society, and only a tiny percentage signed on, and it was rejected. He can&#8217;t even convince others within his own peer community, much less those with expertise in climate science.</p>
<p>Here are some quotes from Happer: </p>
<p>“This is George Orwell. This is the ‘Germans are the master race. The Jews are the scum of the earth.’ It’s that kind of propaganda,”</p>
<p>That sort of rhetorical excess has no place in a scientific discussion. The vast majority of climatologists are hard-working scientists. Even if they are wrong, they aren&#8217;t Hitler. </p>
<p> “Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. Every time you exhale, you exhale air that has 4 percent carbon dioxide. To say that that’s a pollutant just boggles my mind. What used to be science has turned into a cult.” </p>
<p>That completely and utterly shows how confused Happer is. Breathing is (generally) carbon-neutral. The carbon you exhale as CO2 came from plants that fixed the carbon from the atmosphere. </p>
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		<title>By: JKB</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/comment-page-2/#comment-122939</link>
		<dc:creator>JKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 01:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=17262#comment-122939</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, if you&#039;d read the link I provided to the First Things post by an eminent physicist from Princeton, we could look a real numbers.  Such as the pre-industrial CO2 level was 270 ppm.  It is now 390 ppm.  Now, the plant kingdom for which we depend on for food, requires 150 ppm just to grow at all and love higher levels.  Greenhouse operators pump in over 1000 ppm to stimulate growth in their plants.  There is evidence that California orange groves are 30% more productive than 150 years ago due to the increased CO2.  Of course, there are upper limits on CO2 for animal life but the Navy uses 8000 ppm for submariners on 90 exposures while NASA uses 5000 ppm for 1000 day exposures.  At our current rate of fossil fuel usage it would take 300 years to reach 1000 ppm, just below where plants would like it and that doesn&#039;t account for the feedback of more plant usage due to stimulated growth.

 All this, then there was a jump to conclusion that correlation of a 0.8 degree C rise in temperature happened during the last 150 yrs.  Of course, the &quot;scientists&quot; seem to disregard solar activity changes, along with several other temperature drivers instead associating it all to a tiny trace gas in the atmosphere.

&quot; At the present time, the concentration is about 390 ppm, 0.039 percent of all atmospheric molecules and less than 1 percent of that in our breath. About fifty million years ago, a brief moment in the long history of life on earth, geological evidence indicates, CO2 levels were several thousand ppm, much higher than now. And life flourished abundantly.&quot; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if you&#8217;d read the link I provided to the First Things post by an eminent physicist from Princeton, we could look a real numbers.  Such as the pre-industrial CO2 level was 270 ppm.  It is now 390 ppm.  Now, the plant kingdom for which we depend on for food, requires 150 ppm just to grow at all and love higher levels.  Greenhouse operators pump in over 1000 ppm to stimulate growth in their plants.  There is evidence that California orange groves are 30% more productive than 150 years ago due to the increased CO2.  Of course, there are upper limits on CO2 for animal life but the Navy uses 8000 ppm for submariners on 90 exposures while NASA uses 5000 ppm for 1000 day exposures.  At our current rate of fossil fuel usage it would take 300 years to reach 1000 ppm, just below where plants would like it and that doesn&#8217;t account for the feedback of more plant usage due to stimulated growth.</p>
<p> All this, then there was a jump to conclusion that correlation of a 0.8 degree C rise in temperature happened during the last 150 yrs.  Of course, the &#8220;scientists&#8221; seem to disregard solar activity changes, along with several other temperature drivers instead associating it all to a tiny trace gas in the atmosphere.</p>
<p>&#8221; At the present time, the concentration is about 390 ppm, 0.039 percent of all atmospheric molecules and less than 1 percent of that in our breath. About fifty million years ago, a brief moment in the long history of life on earth, geological evidence indicates, CO2 levels were several thousand ppm, much higher than now. And life flourished abundantly.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Zachriel</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/comment-page-2/#comment-122933</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 00:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=17262#comment-122933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;BrianE&lt;/strong&gt;: &lt;em&gt;Actually Zachriel, if you accept the premise based on their modeling, humans will basically need to cease to exist. 
&lt;/em&gt;
There is such a large lag factor, that even eliminating emissions will mean global warming to some extent. That doesn&#039;t mean the problem is hopeless or can&#039;t be mitigated. 
 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>BrianE</strong>: <em>Actually Zachriel, if you accept the premise based on their modeling, humans will basically need to cease to exist.<br />
</em><br />
There is such a large lag factor, that even eliminating emissions will mean global warming to some extent. That doesn&#8217;t mean the problem is hopeless or can&#8217;t be mitigated. </p>
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		<title>By: Zachriel</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/comment-page-2/#comment-122932</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 00:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=17262#comment-122932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Charles Martel&lt;/strong&gt;: &lt;em&gt;When you came to roost here, you went on and on about AGW. Now it’s climate change. Why the switch in nomenclature? Isn’t AGW a strong enough, reliable enough term?

&lt;/em&gt;Though related, they refer to different things. Global warming refers to the increase in the Earth&#039;s average temperature. Climate change refers to changes in the overall patterns of weather. &lt;em&gt; 
 &lt;/em&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Charles Martel</strong>: <em>When you came to roost here, you went on and on about AGW. Now it’s climate change. Why the switch in nomenclature? Isn’t AGW a strong enough, reliable enough term?</p>
<p></em>Though related, they refer to different things. Global warming refers to the increase in the Earth&#8217;s average temperature. Climate change refers to changes in the overall patterns of weather. <em><br />
 </em></p>
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		<title>By: BrianE</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/comment-page-2/#comment-122923</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 22:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=17262#comment-122923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Actually Zachriel, if you accept the premise based on their modeling, humans will basically need to cease to exist. Unless you believe the world can magically quit using carbon based fuels. We can&#039;t even go back to living in caves and burning wood since burning wood is not carbon neutral.
&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;
From the article I previously linked to:&lt;/strong&gt;


&lt;/em&gt;
This is the first peer-reviewed study to investigate what level of carbon dioxide emission would be needed to prevent further warming of our planet.



“Most scientific and policy discussions about avoiding climate change have centered on what emissions would be needed to stabilize greenhouse gases in the atmosphere,” says Caldeira. “But stabilizing greenhouse gases does not equate to a stable climate. We studied what emissions would be needed to stabilize climate in the foreseeable future.”
&lt;em&gt; &lt;/em&gt;
&lt;em&gt;The scientists investigated how much climate changes as a result of each individual emission of carbon dioxide, and found that each increment of emission leads to another increment of warming. So, if we want to avoid additional warming, we need to avoid additional emissions. &lt;/em&gt;
&lt;em&gt; &lt;/em&gt;
&lt;em&gt;With emissions set to zero in the simulations, the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere slowly fell as carbon “sinks” such as the oceans and land vegetation absorbed the gas. &lt;strong&gt;Surprisingly, however, the model predicted that global temperatures would remain high for at least 500 years after carbon dioxide emissions ceased.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Actually Zachriel, if you accept the premise based on their modeling, humans will basically need to cease to exist. Unless you believe the world can magically quit using carbon based fuels. We can&#8217;t even go back to living in caves and burning wood since burning wood is not carbon neutral.<br />
</strong><em><br />
<strong><br />
From the article I previously linked to:</strong></p>
<p></em><br />
This is the first peer-reviewed study to investigate what level of carbon dioxide emission would be needed to prevent further warming of our planet.</p>
<p>“Most scientific and policy discussions about avoiding climate change have centered on what emissions would be needed to stabilize greenhouse gases in the atmosphere,” says Caldeira. “But stabilizing greenhouse gases does not equate to a stable climate. We studied what emissions would be needed to stabilize climate in the foreseeable future.”<br />
<em> </em><br />
<em>The scientists investigated how much climate changes as a result of each individual emission of carbon dioxide, and found that each increment of emission leads to another increment of warming. So, if we want to avoid additional warming, we need to avoid additional emissions. </em><br />
<em> </em><br />
<em>With emissions set to zero in the simulations, the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere slowly fell as carbon “sinks” such as the oceans and land vegetation absorbed the gas. <strong>Surprisingly, however, the model predicted that global temperatures would remain high for at least 500 years after carbon dioxide emissions ceased.</strong></em></p>
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		<title>By: Charles Martel</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/comment-page-2/#comment-122919</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Martel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 22:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=17262#comment-122919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;&quot;Why is it arrogance when scientists and engineers build the Titanic or build climate change models, but then they are heroes when they develop airplanes, cancer medicines and cell phones?  All of this is part of the same process.&quot;
&lt;/strong&gt;

Could it possibly be because your latter three examples actually work?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>&#8220;Why is it arrogance when scientists and engineers build the Titanic or build climate change models, but then they are heroes when they develop airplanes, cancer medicines and cell phones?  All of this is part of the same process.&#8221;<br />
</strong></p>
<p>Could it possibly be because your latter three examples actually work?</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Martel</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/comment-page-2/#comment-122918</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Martel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 22:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=17262#comment-122918</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zach, answer the first point. When you came to roost here, you went on and on about AGW. Now it&#039;s climate change. Why the switch in nomenclature? Isn&#039;t AGW a strong enough, reliable enough term?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zach, answer the first point. When you came to roost here, you went on and on about AGW. Now it&#8217;s climate change. Why the switch in nomenclature? Isn&#8217;t AGW a strong enough, reliable enough term?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Zachriel</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/comment-page-2/#comment-122916</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 21:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=17262#comment-122916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
&lt;strong&gt;Charles Martel&lt;/strong&gt;: &lt;em&gt;Note the semantic sleight of hand: AGW is now AGCC. The warming has been disproved by 13 staright years of cooling, so the PC nomenclature has been moved from “warming” to “change.”&lt;/em&gt;
 
That’s odd.
 
NOAA: “Capping off the warmest decade on record, the average global temperature in 2010 tied 2005 as the warmest year since reliable records began in 1880.”
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.climatewatch.noaa.gov/image/2011/2010-ties-2005-as-the-warmest-year-on-record&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.climatewatch.noaa.gov/image/2011/2010-ties-2005-as-the-warmest-year-on-record&lt;/a&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Charles Martel</strong>: <em>Note the semantic sleight of hand: AGW is now AGCC. The warming has been disproved by 13 staright years of cooling, so the PC nomenclature has been moved from “warming” to “change.”</em><br />
 <br />
That’s odd.<br />
 <br />
NOAA: “Capping off the warmest decade on record, the average global temperature in 2010 tied 2005 as the warmest year since reliable records began in 1880.”<br />
<a href="http://www.climatewatch.noaa.gov/image/2011/2010-ties-2005-as-the-warmest-year-on-record" rel="nofollow">http://www.climatewatch.noaa.gov/image/2011/2010-ties-2005-as-the-warmest-year-on-record</a></p>
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		<title>By: Zachriel</title>
		<link>http://www.bookwormroom.com/2011/05/23/the-moral-imperative-of-american-energy/comment-page-2/#comment-122915</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 21:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookwormroom.com/?p=17262#comment-122915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;BrianE&lt;/strong&gt;: &lt;em&gt;News Flash– &lt;/em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;HUMANS MUST STOP BREATHING TO CONTROL GLOBAL WARMING

&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;Respiration is (generally) carbon-neutral. &lt;strong&gt;
 


 &lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>BrianE</strong>: <em>News Flash– </em><strong><em>HUMANS MUST STOP BREATHING TO CONTROL GLOBAL WARMING</p>
<p></em></strong>Respiration is (generally) carbon-neutral. <strong></p>
<p> </strong></p>
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