More on the racial classification forms I’m forced to fill out so that my kids can attend public school

Kidkaroo, in a comment to my earlier post about the federal requirement that I racially classify my children, explains that, in today’s South Africa, racism is still alive and well — it just runs in the opposite direction from the old days:

Down here in the “new” South Africa, we have something similar; I have to classify my children according to their race in order to comply with quotas – if there are too many white kids in a school it loses its government grant. Problem is, my adopted daughter could be either Coloured (a term for all those of mixed race) or African, as her parents are unknown. If she’s classified African, her marks will be increased more than if she were merely Coloured. Her university entrance will be made easier and she’ll benefit more from affirmative action – Coloureds getting lower points on the “previously disadvantaged” rating. My white kids, born well after the demise of Apartheid are actively discriminated against due to their skin colour. Welcome to the “rainbow nation” where Apartheid is, supposedly, a thing of the past.

That opposite direction can quickly become deadly, a risk perfectly exemplified by this tragic account of what happens when people start crossing racial lines in a racially obsessed society.

Hat tip:  Ace of Spades

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Comments

  1. says

    After generations of apartheid, whites controlled nearly every organ of government and commerce. How would you suggest going about creating a more equitable solution? Do you really think that everything could be left as it was at the end of apartheid?

    Bookworm: That opposite direction can quickly become deadly, a risk perfectly exemplified by this tragic account of what happens when people start crossing racial lines in a racially obsessed society.

    Not sure that South Africa is Nazi Germany.

  2. kidkaroo says

    Zachriel, to answer your question, I’d start by doing away with race-based affirmative action. It would end the present situation where a black child from a wealthy family is deemed more in need of assistance than a poor white, Coloured, or Indian child. After 17 years of ANC rule the wealth gap is larger today than it was under Apartheid, now that’s quite a feat.

  3. Charles Martel says

    kidaroo, one thing you’ll learn on this site is that direct, day-to-day experience does not count at all with one of our contributors. He lives in a world of links, URLs, sociology studies and think tanks where the real stuff happens.

    So, who are you going to believe, your loving think tank or your lying eyes?

  4. says

    For those looking for a way to change their investment, but did not visit the webinar yet, the summary is very basic.

    The US is going to keep printing more money to make sure it can’t default on debt. This is the famous quote by the politicians that they have to spend more to get out of bankruptcy. If people had an endless checkbook to write checks using other people’s money, would they EVER DEFAULT and declare bankruptcy? Neither will the gov.

    That means hyperinflation will destroy any assets you have that was based upon US currency. This a revalue assessment of wealth and a transfer of wealth into precious commodities such as gold and silver, which are the more stable of all precious commodities. Or most popular at least.

    So Book, any stocks you have is probably going up in smoke from here to 2016, so better transfer those assets into something that is going up in price and won’t decline in a depression, which is gold and silver mostly.

     

  5. says

    When I was doing the academics for a California k-12 teaching credential way back in ’78, one of the professors told us schools, teachers, and administrators could not use race, ethnicity, or economics in evaluating students. He was very clear, adamant, and made his point several times, then had several future teachers explain what he had just said to be sure we all understood. At the end of the hour, he gave out the week’s assignment: go to your assigned school and determine the racial, ethnic, and economic make-up of the school.

    I was confused and consulted fellow classmates as to what was meant by the assignment and if they were as confused as I. They were not. In fact, they were more amazed by my confusion than by the obvious conflicting instruction given by the professor. That was when I started, albeit haltingly, to question the sanity of the Liberal side of life.

  6. Charles Martel says

    I suspect the professor was setting up people like you–ones who weren’t already walking around in a cloud of liberal cognitive dissonance. The point he was probably trying to make is that even though it was illegal to take any of those factors he mentioned into consideration, a look at your local school would force you to do so. Then you’d come away steeped in victim politics and heart filled with pity, ready to sidestep the law now that you knew the law was a racist/classist ass.

  7. kali says

    Back in the late 70s, my mother had an interviewer tell her that he wasn’t supposed to notice her gender, but that he needed to report it. So, he asked her with a perfectly straight face, what did she want to be recorded as?
     
    Nowadays, of course, that would cause a major snit by any number of “guess my gender wrong and I’ll sue,” types.
     

  8. Mike Devx says

    I would like to answer Zachriel’s question in #1 with a question of my own:
    Assume we proceed in the direction you wish:   Then will you please quantify precisely WHEN, and UNDER EXACTLY WHAT CONDITIONS, the reverse discrimination is guaranteed to legally cease? 

    We must assume that all skin-color based determinations are bad; and that reverse discrimination is regrettably necessary solely to right the horrific wrongs done in the past.  If that is the case, then there must be a reachable, definable GOAL, a goal that states that those horrific conditions have, in fact, been erased, and we can then do away with the reverse discrimination.

    So, Zach, what are those conditions?  Under which the horror of reverse discrimination can be discarded because the even worse horrors of the original discrimination have been sufficiently ameliorated?

    I know, of course, that I’m whistling past the graveyard here, and the answer to this question will NEVER be answered by a liberal, because the politics of vicitimization require such programs as reverse discrimination to be granted in perpetuity.  And once any particular goal is met, well, the goalposts merely SHIFT, and on we go.  And on we go.  And on we go.

    Bullshit.

  9. Charles Martel says

    It still cracks me up that the geniuses who run things in the academy think that gender, a grammatical classification, is somehow a better word than sex.

  10. kali says

    Charles, I know “sex” is the proper term, but if we were proper, we’d have “Sex and Women’s Studies” “Women’s and Sex History” and “Women and Sex in Global Perspective”– not to mention that a “Sex Equity Council” sounds like something that should be staffed by lonely young nerds.
     
    I know, I know, I’ve been hanging around academics too long.

  11. says

    Charles (#12):  I’m working on a kids’ project right now, and I deliberately used the word gender, because I knew sex would cause the kids to become dysfunctionally giggly.  Maybe that’s the problem with everyone.  Deep in their hearts, they’re still 12 years old.

  12. says

    kidkaroo: Zachriel, to answer your question, I’d start by doing away with race-based affirmative action. 

    Including in the immediate aftermath of ending apartheid?
     
    Mike Devx: I would like to answer Zachriel’s question in #1 with a question of my own:
    Assume we proceed in the direction you wish:   Then will you please quantify precisely WHEN, and UNDER EXACTLY WHAT CONDITIONS, the reverse discrimination is guaranteed to legally cease? 

    That’s an excellent question, and we’re not sure we have an exact answer. But racial affirmative action should be ended as soon as possible, and replaced with one geared to the underclass of whatever race. 
     
    Mike DevxWe must assume that all skin-color based determinations are bad; and that reverse discrimination is regrettably necessary solely to right the horrific wrongs done in the past.  If that is the case, then there must be a reachable, definable GOAL, a goal that states that those horrific conditions have, in fact, been erased, and we can then do away with the reverse discrimination.
     
    Another excellent point. Affirmative action can breed resentment, even when the justice of it is clearcut.
     
    Mike DevxI know, of course, that I’m whistling past the graveyard here, and the answer to this question will NEVER be answered by a liberal, because the politics of vicitimization require such programs as reverse discrimination to be granted in perpetuity.  

    Not sure about your notion of liberals, but the idea that affirmative action should have clear goals is a good one. Today, most affirmative action in the U.S. is just the attempt to increase diversity, so an historically black college has to make positive attempts to let whites know that its doors are open to them too. Quotas are rare, and only in cases of proven discrimination. 

  13. says

    kidkaroo: After 17 years of ANC rule the wealth gap is larger today than it was under Apartheid, now that’s quite a feat.

    That may be simply due to development, which tends to increase the wealth gap.

  14. kidkaroo says

    (#18) Zachriel: Including in the immediate aftermath of ending apartheid?

    No, but I’m having to racially classify my children a good 25 years after segregated schools were supposed to have been phased out, and 17 years since the advent of so-called democracy.

    (#19) That may be simply due to development, which tends to increase the wealth gap.

    Actually, it has more to do with the way BEE (Black Economic Empowerment) has been implemented, which has given rise to “tenderpreneurs” these are people close to the ruling party who have received billions in state tenders, irrespective of their capacity to provide the services. Coupled with this is a 40% unemployment rate, which is largely due to this regimes bizarre economic policies and militant unions that have made South African labour amongst the most expensive in the developing world. Foreign investment has dried up after the more lunatic wing of the ruling party started talking about nationalising the mines, banks and all productive land.

  15. suek says

    >>But racial affirmative action should be ended as soon as possible, and replaced with one geared to the underclass of whatever race. >>
     
    What characteristics define the “underclass”?
     
    Would you define them by race, physical, psychological or character features??

  16. says

    kidkaroo: Foreign investment has dried up after the more lunatic wing of the ruling party started talking about nationalising the mines, banks and all productive land.

    The South African economy grew steadily from the end of Apartheid until the financial meltdown. Likewise, foreign investment has been increasing overall. Inflation has been kept relatively low, and South Africa is open to international trade. A major problem is the poor educational system, a system that is still in transition from apartheid. The result has been a two-tiered society, with a developed industrial core, and large numbers of people left out. HIV continues to inflict great damage on South African society. 
    http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2898.htm 
     

  17. pst314 says

    “That’s an excellent question, and we’re not sure we have an exact answer.”
    It’s always “we”. Just how many personalities do you have? :-)
    But seriously, it makes you sound pretentious and vain.

  18. pst314 says

    “That’s an excellent question, and we’re not sure we have an exact answer. But racial affirmative action should be ended as soon as possible…”
    Not only do you not have an exact answer, you haven’t answered the question at all.
    “…and replaced with one geared to the underclass of whatever race.”
    And of course, you and your friends will <i>always</i> find someone to fill the role of “underclass”, and thus you will never be ready to dismantle your apparat.

  19. Charles Martel says

    Book (#17), speaking as a 62 year old, I crack up every time I think of Bill Clinton looking straight into the TV cameras and saying, “I did not have gender with that woman!”

  20. says

    Zach says “underclass of whatever race” and suek asks whether underclass would be defined by race.  Zach can speak for himself, but I think the phrase “underclass of whatever race” pretty much excludes race as a criteria.  Underclass has to mean economically disadvantaged, doesn’t it?

    Actually, Zach, it would be interesting to know how you would define underclass and how you would implement affirmative action based on underclass criteria.  

  21. says

    underclassthe lowest social stratum usually made up of disadvantaged minority groups.

    But not exclusively minorities. So RFK included people of Appalachia, for instance, in his idea of the underclass. Directing assistance to the chronically poor doesn’t eliminate all need for affirmative action, but does help reduce resentment. Again, most modern affirmative action does not include quotas, but outreach. 

    Part of the problem has been how education is funded, which is largely done locally in the U.S. Poor areas therefore have generally poor funding. When people have tried to equalize spending for the have-nots, they have been resisted by the haves. 

  22. kidkaroo says

    Zachriel re your #22 
    Our schooling is in a mess, but that’s due to employment equity quotas for teachers that are based on race, and not ability, together with the closure of many teacher-training colleges and a refusal to dismiss non-performing teachers. Unions form part of the ruling tripartite alliance with the Communists and the ANC.

    Re our economy, yes, the country grew after trade sanctions and embargoes were done away with, however, for a country that produces a quarter of Africa’s GDP, direct foreign investment is low and getting lower. DFI has plummeted 70% year on year. The recent handling of Wal-Mart’s acquisition of a local retailer is a case in point; the resulting fall-out has been the withdrawal of several planned foreign investments. The unemployment rate is well over 40% – the official rate of 25% excludes all those not actively looking for work.

    The AIDS pandemic is a direct result of Thabo Mbeki’s denialist attitude coupled with his administration’s intransigence with the rollout of anti-retrovirals. The present Zuma led government has reversed the policy, unfortunately, only after the infection of millions of my fellow countrymen. I won’t be holding my breathe waiting for Mbeki’s arraignment at The Hague on crimes against humanity.

  23. suek says

    >>Part of the problem has been how education is funded, which is largely done locally in the U.S. Poor areas therefore have generally poor funding. When people have tried to equalize spending for the have-nots, they have been resisted by the haves. >>

    The “haves” in the US have always been pretty generous – but it _is_ true that poor areas generally have had poor funding. Additionally, if you were to suddenly increase that funding, it probably would not be spent wisely – since those local bodies responsible for the spending probably would not have the knowledge to get the best results from that funding.

    Add to that a certain resistance to change. I’m reminded of a time when we had a devastating fire on one of the local ranches. The cattle ran away a certain distance, but when their cowboys attempted to drive the herd to safety, some of them broke away and fled back to familiar grounds -where they died in the fire. People tend to want to stay in familiar surroundings – including their cultural surroundings. They don’t want to be “different”…so you have the “acting white” criticisms among black students. What it means is “don’t be different. Don’t go away from us – your family and friends. You’re no better than we are”. The local culture has to be moved up the scale gradually – no faster than they’re ready for, but in recent years they haven’t moved up – they’ve moved down. That’s the fault of an educational system that insists on reassuring groups that “you’re terrific – just as you are” and doesn’t urge them to better themselves.

  24. Danny Lemieux says

    I continue to be amazed at how so many people, cocooned in comfortable middle-class armchair environments bereft of real world experience, can glom onto nostrums such as the belief that giving government (i.e., other people’s) money to the disadvantaged will serve to reduce any resentments that the poor may have toward the “rich”.

    Yo! You…my British cousins over there! How has that socialist hopey change welfare state of yours been working out for you? 

  25. Danny Lemieux says

    Suek, you bring up another false premise of the Left: that more money equals better government school education. This isn’t necessarily so.

    Whereas white collar, professional class neighborhoods will have more money to spend, their academic performance is more a reflection of local family values than it is of expenditures, most of which go to frivolities such as music and sports programs. Nobel-prize winning scientist and father of the “green revolution”, Norman Borlaug, meanwhile, was educated in a one-room country school house.

  26. Charles Martel says

    Danny, the county where Book and I live is known for its very good public schools. One K-8 school district, in affluent Sausalito, spends double the amount of dollars per year per student on its mostly black enrollment compared to other districts’ averages. After years of pumping tens of millions of dollars into the educational program, the results remain dismal: reading and math scores are way below county norms. Even relentless teaching to the test, which produces high scores elsewhere in the county, is for naught.

    The elephant in the room, of course, is the toxic ghetto culture that has infected many of these students. When my son was younger and his athletic activities brought me into contact with a lot of those kids, I didn’t see any lack of intelligence among them. Like kids anywhere, if you were determined to push them hard at something they believed in, they would respond by mastering the task you imposed on them. In the case of athletics they always gave good game.

    But in talking to them and watching their interactions, I could detect the beginnings of a surly “only whites think school is cool” attitude. Maybe it came from shame at knowing how much money the district’s white bleeding hearts were determined to pour over them, as well as the indifference of their parents. What I do know is that throwing money at them has not done a jot of good.

  27. SADIE says

    because I knew sex would cause the kids to become dysfunctionally giggly. Maybe that’s the problem with everyone.  Deep in their hearts, they’re still 12 years old.
     
    For the kids over 65, whenever we look at the box on the form Sex: check [F] or [M] – we don’t so much laugh but wonder why there isn’t a simple [Yes] or [No] ;)
     
     

  28. says

    kidkaroo: DFI has plummeted 70% year on year. 

    Um, there was a financial meltdown. Investment has plummeted in the U.S., too. Before then, it was low in South Africa, but growing. 
    http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2008/car052208b.htm 

    kidkarooThe AIDS pandemic is a direct result of Thabo Mbeki’s denialist attitude coupled with his administration’s intransigence with the rollout of anti-retrovirals. 
     
    Mbeki didn’t cause the pandemic, but he certainly didn’t help the situation. There was no excuse in his actions, but denialism or minimization is common when people have to make an effort or spend money to correct a problem.
     
    suek: The “haves” in the US have always been pretty generous – but it _is_ true that poor areas generally have had poor funding. Additionally, if you were to suddenly increase that funding, it probably would not be spent wisely – since those local bodies responsible for the spending probably would not have the knowledge to get the best results from that funding.

    True, but it’s doubtful most rich districts would trade educations systems with poor districts. Money alone may not be sufficient for educational progress, but it is necessarily.
     
    Danny Lemieux: Nobel-prize winning scientist and father of the “green revolution”, Norman Borlaug, meanwhile, was educated in a one-room country school house.

    Yes, even after failing the entrance examination, Borlaug was given a chance for a higher education through Roosevelt’s National Youth Administration. During breaks in his education, he took jobs to earn money. As a leader in the Civilian Conservation Corps, he saw how food changed the lives of the hungry. 

     

  29. kidkaroo says

    Zachriel # 36
    Your link is rather out of date; SA has fallen to 8th place, which is truly alarming when considering we’re the financial and logistical “gateway” to the continent due to our developed infrastructure and strong banking sector. This drop has to do with talk of nationalisation. Or at least according to the investors who have pulled out of planned projects.
    Mbeki didn’t cause the pandemic, but he certainly didn’t help the situation. There was no excuse in his actions, but denialism or minimization is common when people have to make an effort or spend money to correct a problem.
    You seem to hold him to a very, very low standard. Why is that? Mbeki went further than inaction by denying the very existence of Aids. Including during a speech at the opening of parliament when he stated that “a virus can’t cause a syndrome” His administration claimed that anti-retrovirals were “meant to kill blacks” and refused to supply drugs, preferring bizarre treatments like olive oil and the African potato (poisonous for humans) Many leftist organisations, including the young communists, have called for his indictment on crimes against humanity. 

  30. suek says

    >>True, but it’s doubtful most rich districts would trade educations systems with poor districts.>>

    Irrelevant. More so than usual.

    >> Money alone may not be sufficient for educational progress, but it is necessarily.>>

    Disagree. Founding Fathers etc. Education takes place in some _very_ poor countries. First requirement is a desire to learn. Given that, all else is possible. Have you ever heard of libraries? In the USA, they’re free. All sorts of stuff in there…but you have to want to make use of them. No desire, no results.

  31. says

    kidkarooYour link is rather out of date; SA has fallen to 8th place, which is truly alarming when considering we’re the financial and logistical “gateway” to the continent due to our developed infrastructure and strong banking sector. 

    Not sure why you ignored the point about the financial meltdown, which depressed investment worldwide. Meanwhile, China is investing in South Africa, and the economy has resumed growth. 
     
    kidkarooYou seem to hold him to a very, very low standard. 

    Huh? Mbeki’s reliance on pseudoscience slowed the response to the HIV epidemic with devastating results. There was no excuse. Unfortunately, denialism is a common response when the alternative means having to make painful changes or having to spend money. 

  32. kidkaroo says

    Zachriel, it is you who is ignoring the fact that SA has been overtaken by seven African countries – I presume you’d acknowledge that these countries are also affected by the global financial meltdown? Yet they’ve managing to attract investment and we’ve not. I don’t know why it’s so difficult for you to acknowledge that the threat of nationalisation might have scared away investors. 
    What growth has taken place has not translated into jobs or a rise in living standards for the masses. The wealth gap is greater today than it was under Apartheid, and a third of all manufacturing jobs have been lost since 1990. An era when this country faced international sanctions
    I standby my assertion that you hold Mbeki to a low standard, other African leader when faced with the very same situation and with far fewer resources took a proactive approach. Their countries have reversed the incidents of new HIV infection whereas we now have the world’s largest number of infections and a life expectancy of 49. What an indictment, we’re dying younger now than we did during the rule of the Apartheid regime.

  33. says

    Z is a Leftist. Is it so hard to see why Leftist support black and white apartheid?

     The wealth gap is greater today because the Left wants it to be that way. Engineered crisis. It was intentional.

  34. kidkaroo says

     Ymarsakar, It  makes perverse sense I guess. Keep the electorate poor & unemployed and reliant on state welfare, and you’ve got a built in majority. 

  35. says

    kidkarooit is you who is ignoring the fact that SA has been overtaken by seven African countries – 

    We’re not ignoring it, but seeing it in longer terms. One year is not much of a trend. Yes, the government has been clumsy, but they have also made some good decisions. Yes, there are challenges, but there are also great opportunities. 
     
    kidkaroo
    : What growth has taken place has not translated into jobs or a rise in living standards for the masses. 
     
    No, it hasn’t. It’s a two-tiered society. Growth will have to be above the 4% for any sustained drop in unemployment. Unfortunately, that’s close to the ‘natural’ level for South Africa given its infrastructure, and technical and educational capabilities. 
     
    kidkarooI standby my assertion that you hold Mbeki to a low standard, other African leader when faced with the very same situation and with far fewer resources took a proactive approach.

    Your statement doesn’t make any sense. We’ve said more than once that Mbeki’s position on HIV has had devastating effects on the people. 
     
    You seem to be overly pessimistic. South Africa has many opportunities, and will emerge from its problems a stronger nation. Your comments, especially your personal perspectives, have been very interesting and appreciated. 
     

  36. says

    Totalitarian states always require an enemy, KidK. In South Africa, the white man is always around to be the punching bag and the evil that must be fought by supporting the Black/Leftist regime. Rhodesia was ruled by whites, then it became Zimbabwe, and then what happened? White farms got looted and nationalized and “redistributed” to black cronyies and tribes as payment. Hyperinflation as the ruling class of blacks looted the country by printing money and buying whatever prostitutes, child prostitutes, and other luxuries they wanted. Oopsie or intentional looting and collapse? Btw people like George Soros makes sick amounts of money using that cycle. They get a huge amount of gold and silver using a country’s currency that is declining, then they wait for that country to start to restabilize, then they “buy back” in and thus get something like 500-1000% of a return. Since Soros funds a lot of Leftist “revolutionary” groups, he can actually predict the trends because he makes instability happen in certain countries on demand.

    There’s nothing “strange about it”. It’s how the Left operates. It’s how Leftist revolutionaries like Castro and that hick town tard operated as well.

     

  37. kidkaroo says

    Zachriel: Your statement doesn’t make any sense. We’ve said more than once that Mbeki’s position on HIV has had devastating effects on the people.
    It was in response to your 36 and 40
    …denialism or minimization is common when people have to make an effort or spend money to correct a problem.
    … denialism is a common response when the alternative means having to make painful changes or having to spend money.
    Can you honestly say that if South Africa’s AIDS pandemic had happened under white minority rule you would be as muted in your response?
    Zachriel: You seem to be overly pessimistic. South Africa has many opportunities, and will emerge from its problems a stronger nation.
    From your lips to God’s ears, however, as someone who actually lives here, and who sees the effects of this government, I know I’m the realist.
    Zachriel: Your comments, especially your personal perspectives, have been very interesting and appreciated.
    Thank you for that personal touch.
     
     

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