Smoking gun pointing at ATF in Fast and Furious

I haven’t been following Operation Fast and Furious as much as I should have.  I have no excuse.  Bob Owens (aka Confederate Yankee) has been spelling it out with care and diligence.  I’m not going to rehash things here, but Doug Ross has dropped in a tidbit that really, really got my attention:  it seems as if at least one ATF agent was (jokingly?) toying with the idea of investigating Sen. Grassley in order to block the latter’s investigations into F&F.

The Obama administration will go down in history as an extraordinarily corrupt administration.  What will distinguish it from other corrupt administrations (Andrew Johnson, Harding, Nixon, etc.) is that it will be the only administration that saw corruption, not for personal enrichment, but for American destruction.  That’s an entirely new animal, and one I hope I never see again.


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  • Jose

    The BATFE, FBI and DEA colluded and encouraged the illegal smuggling of firearms across an international border to drug cartels.  And we are expected to believe Eric Holder knew nothing about it?
    The BATFE hasn’t even pretended they had a way to connect the guns to cartel leadership, and they continued the operation as Mexican citizens died.  Now the DoJ is asking for registration of long gun sales in 5 border states to combat the illegal smuggling of arms to Mexico.
    The ONLY rationale that makes sense is that the whole thing was a Cloward-Piven operation.

  • jj

    I’ve always wondered about the ATF.  I don’t quite know where they came from – I think I remember I know it was under Nixon – or what they’re allegedly doing that requires a separate agency.  We have the CIA – please don’t tell me they don’t operate at home – we have the FBI; we have the DEA; we have the ICE people; we have all kinds of other domestic intelligence agencies – who decided – and checked with us the people to see if it was okay – that what the country needed was yet another armed and dangerous domestic army of halfwits running around the country?
    And they have a long history of being a bunch of f***-ups, on top of it.  I think the first time they ever came to public notice in a big way was that guy Randy What’s’is’name, the fellow who basically just wanted to be left the hell alone in the wilds of Montana or wherever it was and got into some kind of stand-off with the local yahoos, which escalated to the FBI, than the ATF showed up to kill his wife and kid, everybody’s dead.  Smoothly handled, boys!
    After which the then boss, Steve [I’ve forgotten his name too], goes on 60 Minutes and complains, I swear to God, that he has to deal with halfwits because the CIA and FBI have already taken the cream of the national law-enforcement types, and being the newest agency the poor ATF is left with FBI/CIA rejects who, after all, are rejects and ain’t very smart, and are probably dangerous!  I absolutely promise you I recall this interview, because it was so extraordinary to me that the head of any agency would go on TV and freely admit that his people were dangeous, not very bright, and on the outer limits of ‘capable of being trained.’
    And the Randy incident became the ATF model: every single time those assholes showed up, everybody wound up dead.  I began to agree with ol’ Steve: these guys aren’t very bright.  And of course they were a presence at Waco, every time there’s been a domestic mess in the last twenty years, they’re in the middle of it.
    So it’s not at all a surprise that some brainiac over there came up with this entirely witless scheme, the top command stopped drooling for two seconds and endorsed it as a great and clever idea – and of course kids in the second grade could instantly spot all the problems and never would have done it.  It’s equally not a surprise that the Obama Administration’s own affirmative action hire, the singularly dim Eric Holder, would have thought it was a swell idea, and said ‘go ahead.’
    I still don’t know what the excuse is for the existence of the ATF, they are a roomful of dangerously stupid armed people – as they have repeatedly proved – and there are and have been plenty of other people around to do whatever it is they think their job is.  I’ve been wondering about Holder now for three years, but I suppose the answer there is simple: he has something on the jackass int he white house – though what it could be beyond what we all have on him at this point, I can’t imagine. 

  • jj

    I went and looked him up, it annoyed me I couldn’t remember his name.  The head halfwit at the time was Steve Higgins, since retired.

  • Jose

    Randy Weaver was the guy that was pressured by the feds to sell a sawed off shotgun to some Aryan Nations folks. This led to the siege of his home at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.

  • Mike Devx

    Drudge highlighted this Rick Perry ad.  I’ve watched it once.  I think it’s very effective.  I’m going to have to analyze why…  But he takes Obama’s speechifyin’ stylistic bs and just plain turns it against him.  God I love that.  Because once we can strip that speechifyin bs away from Obama, he’s got NOTHING.  Nothing.

    I’m convinced a McCain play-nice candidate will fail against Obama.  This kind of ad is exactly what I’m hoping to see.

  • JKB

    If this didn’t have approval from the top, why is it that the executive branch isn’t looking into this direct usurpation of the Presidents foreign policy (exports control is justified under this), direct violation of several international arms control agreements, in direct violation of Mexican law.  

    A responsible administration would be a little upset at rogue federal agents creating an international incident by permitting the unfettered export of arms into foreign nation without coordination with that nation’s law enforcement or at least foreign office. 

    The fact there is not an executive branch criminal investigation indicates the approval came from on high.  Otherwise, some people would be out of a job for undermining US foreign policy. 

  • Ymarsakar

    The FBI operations chief in charge of Ruby Ridge, under Janet Reno, was also in charge of WACO. I’m quite sure he got explicit orders from Janet Reno not to go easy on the real enemy: anti-Democrats and anti-government factions. Being the fanatic and corrupt guy that they were, they operated much as Deepthroat did in the FBI. Stomped on any civil liberties getting in their way and used any and all methods to gain more power in the federal government, even to the extent of having Nixon take the blame for much of the Constitutional violations the FBI was engaging under Hoover. 

  • Charles Martel

    Mike, thanks for the link to the video. The montage of empty storefronts and despondent people with Obama’s teleprompterisms supplying the audio is like a moment out of “Atlas Shrugged.” Here, in vivid images, is what Ayn Rand conjured up in her novel 54 years ago.

    A speculation about what will happen vis the ATF scandal. The whore media will, of course, reflexively ignore or downplay the ramifications here. But, as easy as it is to denigrate the thought processes and integrity of the captive media, not every leftist is amoral or bereft of conscience. Somebody, somewhere is going to start digging deep and asking questions. No, it won’t be the New York Times, or NPR or any of the news organs that sold themselves out so long ago. But, maybe the Washington Post has an iota of journalistic chops left, or maybe some Christopher Hitchens type will emerge at The New Republic, or even HuffPo.

    Perhaps America’s most famous self-hating Jew, Jon (Stewart) Leibowitz will, at long last, apply his cowardly snark to a real target.

    But some journalist on the left is going to ask, “How far can I go to protect people who casually set up innocents to be murdered, all in the name of protecting a man who was supposed to be infinitely better than this?”

  • Ymarsakar

    I disagree with JJ’s conclusion and favor JKB’s conclusion. Back when this first got discovered, there were some signs Obama was trying to increase gun control. I wrote over at Grim’s blog that Obama is too incompetent and ignorant about guns to do much of anything with them. That, however, didn’t include Eric Holder or the ATF. Eric Holder knew just enough about corruption and two timing false flag (remember that term, false flag, because Dems have forgotten that little tidbit they accused us of doing about Iraq and 9/11) operations to be able to put this together. And the ATF story only leaked because the head agents in charge finally figured out that this was happening and could not use their official communication channels to get it shutdown. Obviously because this was done with Presidential approval. Going against the President is going up against the full might of Holder’s Black Panther goon squads and the Executive Branch.


  • Ymarsakar

    A lot of people told me back in 2007 and the first half of 08 that I was exaggerating the threat of the Left. They still thought that they could make a deal with the Left, aka Democrats, into some kind of “mutually acceptable deal”. These were realistic solutions as well, such as allowing states to use state funds to fund social medicine while allowing other states the freedom to avoid paying into it or being covered by it. But this was not REALISTIC given the enemy we had: the Left. The Left wasn’t going to allow any kind of freedom or free market choice here. They were fascists gone mad with power. And they obtained that power on 2008, with Obama’s election.

    Anyways, plenty of people told me before that my views on the government were too extreme, even by those who didn’t like the government. They liked to believe that because nobody was shooting anyone, that the Constitutional protections were still in force. I thought otherwise. Now we have the federal government using foreign nations to explicitly affect domestic policy and ram through a gun control legislation and disarmament policy based entirely upon the federal government’s own INTENTIONAL SABOTAGE and FUNDING of drug cartels in Mexico. How is this different from people telling us Bush ordered explosives placed in the Twin Towers just so he could have the justification to invade a foreign country to enrich himself in oil? How many people do you want to bet were killed by drug cartels using the arms and munitions sold to them by the ATF?

     And yet, people are still talking about there being peace, elections, and democratic Constitutional protections and procedures even now. Can they not see that it is too late? If they don’t stomp on the Left’s power and break their back now, they will get the war they have been ignoring for years now. It is no longer a matter of if. The federal government doesn’t need to shoot you to suppress your rebellion against the government. They’ll just pay jihadists to raid military bases and Mexican drug cartels to kill you instead. It’s easier that way.


  • Jose

    And now “Grenade Walker”:

    How does the DoJ release from custody some joker with 100+ GRENADES, and knowingly allow him to leave the country with them?

  • Ymarsakar

    After 2008, a lot of people were talking about the End Game or Civil War or whatever was going on back then. My analysis, which I wrote over at that one blog, is that the Left won’t be ready to move until they have completed a couple of checklists.

    1. Full control of the US economy during a hyperinflationary event caused by Democrats in power.

    2. Arming of all Union thugs and TSA workers. Kept loyal by the salt of their salaries and in line by the fury and ruthlessness of the union bosses.

    3. Disarmament policies that will effectively prepare the government to sweep in and confiscate all weapons, on pain of death and state executions (Ruby Ridge and WACO, do what you are told or else)

    Fast and Furious is a step leading to 3. And while people may pat themselves on the back for discovering this ahead of time, they should not grow so complacent. It was years before this came to light, and it was only discovered when the weapons started killing US citizens at the border. That means it has already finished metastasizing and is now being used against the US, after the Cartels have suppressed whomever they needed to suppress in Mexico. Those armed with US weapons and munitions will have an advantage. And if they are moving across the border, it’s because someone has won the gang wars. All of that is yet to be set in stone. But it is quite true that Fast and Furious is only a thin slice of the overall operations the federal government has printed trillions of US dollars to fund. Only a slice people. The danger isn’t over just because people “saw” Fast and Furious in action and exposed it to the light of day. Not even close.

    So far number 1 is proceeding according to schedule, which will happen in the next year or two. The US money supply is large and the GDP is high, so there is a substantial cushion, but with Democrats in control, it is quite easy to see that they will puncture that cushion in time. That’s what ruthlessness and stupidity combined can do. Number 2 is stalled and dependent on number 3. And number 3 is already proceeding according to their schedule with Fast and Furious.

    When all 3 checkpoint lists have been done and finished, then I will be confident to say that the Leftist Alliance of the United States of America will prepare to go into full totalitarian fascist war footing to suppress all domestic dissent in the USA.

    Americans have until now and then, to stop the Left and crush them. Anything else will simply delay the inevitable. The Left do not give up.

    Those that think they have seen the worst of Obama, I say they haven’t seen anything yet. Whatever evil you see from the Left now, imagine 99 times it hidden in the shadows. A lot of things can be done with 11 trillion dollars.

  • jj

    The financial part of the equation is pretty much here and now.  I don’t know how many of you pay attention, but more money has been pulled out of the stock market since April than was in the months following the crash.  The paper may well be on the verge of turning back into paper – and October is the historical month for market disasters.  Central banks in Europe are dumping euro-backed securities and instruments as fast as they can find some sucker to dump them on – the euro’s done.
    I don’t think we have a couple of years until the financial disaster – I’m beginning to think we have a couple of weeks.
    Obama at the UN is just a disease, too.  He’s harking right back to his childhood – and he sees us, Britain, Israel – we’re all oppressive occupying powers, and we all have to go.  And government responsibilities come well ahead of individual rights.
    We’re in trouble, gang.  And the riots have started in lower Manhattan, swirling around Wall Street.  You aren’t seeing it or hearing about it more than a few seconds’ worth a day in the brain-dead media – and if they showed it they wouldn’t understand it, they don’t listen to Steven Lerner – to whom I’d link but find him yourselves, there are a million links.  He’ll tell you all about this year of transformation, with much more to come.  We’re all colonials – and we’re going down.  I guess nobody ever actually read Dreams From My Father.  “From,” not “of.”  Somebody should’ve.

  • Ymarsakar

    Silver was 10 dollars an ounce in 2008, straight from the raw materials processor. Now it is 42 dollars an ounce and rising. So assuming you had 100,000 dollars and decided to buy silver in 2008, your cash value of 100,000 will have decreased by around half in 2012-14, whereas your silver investment would have increased by more than 4X.

    From valued sources, that is a good place to buy. But don’t buy gold/silver futures or options, because those you don’t actually own and can be confiscated or liquidated by banks/government.


  • Ymarsakar

    Those with real estate properties that they don’t live on, the recommendation I heard from the super rich is to sell it all off, liquidate it into cash, and buy 10% gold and 90% silver (because there is 9X as much silver as there is gold, and while gold is staying stable due to mines, silver is being used up in industrial/electronic processes).


  • Mike Devx

    jj: I don’t think we have a couple of years until the financial disaster – I’m beginning to think we have a couple of weeks.

    My fear, too.  I’d read a few weeks ago that the dollar has plunged in VALUE (against other currencies) by at least 60% since 2002.  I yelled out here to ask someone to please explain what that means, and could it really be the truth?

    Many world financial instruments are large and used to be strong.  Now I am worried along jj’s lines:  We’ve distorted and mangled everything so much that they are all houses of cards built on sand, utterly weak.  They paper the weaknesses over and hide them and temporarily shore things up so that everything *appears* stable enough to last.  But really the entire structures may be simply weaker and weaker.   And when they go, *if* they go, they will go quickly and they will collapse entirely.

    All the current problems with the Euro, for example, are apparently caused by the fact that the European banks do not have the money/cash available that they’ve been tricking everyone into thinking they have.  Hence there is no political solution possible, because it relies on their own banks leading the “bailouts”, which is impossible because they do not have the money.  This is the 2008 financial panic all over again… but worse.  Any solution they come up with simply postpones that crisis.

    How quickly does the collapse start?  Once started, can it be stopped, or will it just keep spiralling downward?  Will it be slow, or will it accelerate?  I suppose once the collapse completes, we will look back on whatever happens and claim that it was obvious, and we should have seen it coming in all its terrifying power… but looking at things right *now*, before it begins, I don’t think it’s at clear exactly how it’s going to unfold, nor is it clear the extent of the calamity.


  • Mike Devx

    Ymar says:
    > 1. Full control of the US economy during a hyperinflationary event caused by Democrats in power.  -and-
    >  So far number 1 is proceeding according to schedule, which will happen in the next year or two. 

    I anticipate *some* tricky event occuring in 2012.  The financial panic that happened in 2008 was going to happen sooner or later, but I believe it was triggered to occur precisely when it occurred to ensure Obama’s election.  There will be a trick of some sorts in 2012.

    It may not be precisely what Ymar outlines in his #1, but the key thing to me is this:  We must remember how FAKE the crisis of 2008 was.  Remember them saying: “We have days, we may have only HOURS, to avert catastrophe!  We must act NOW! NOW! NOW!”

    And then they tried to act “NOW”.  They did a few things.  We resisted.  Sand in the gears.  Suddenly, MONTHS were going by, the crisis continued… but the dire complete collapse that they swore was inevitable… did… not… happen.  We were being sold FEAR, plain pure and simple.  We were being absolutely tricked.  Many in government fell for the line, too.  They should be demanding answers.   I’d add that we eventually gave away a bunch of taxpayer debt to the banks and investment firms, to free up liquidity as promised… but all they have done is sit on that money.  So in a sense the liquidity crisis is *still* on going, and no complete collapse, even yet.

    So when it happens in 2012, whatever happens, they will sell is FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR again.  They will try to make you panic.  My God, My God, I guess we’ve got to do something, anything, something now! Now!  

    Don’t believe the bullshit.  It WILL be bullshit.  Fight back.  Immediately.

  • Ymarsakar

    I’d read a few weeks ago that the dollar has plunged in VALUE (against other currencies) by at least 60% since 2002.  I yelled out here to ask someone to please explain what that means, and could it really be the truth?

    Of course it is the truth. The exact value doesn’t really matter. What does matter is what the US gov has been doing. In order to pay off the debt and “monetize” it, they have been printing, literally, trillions of dollars. There’s only so many trillions of US dollars in circulation, so if you add a few more trillions into it while everyone is hoarding and staying safe by not investing, guess what happens? Inflation. Your money no longer is worth what it was, even assuming your stocks weren’t lost and your 401k didn’t scrap itself. The only things that retain their value during inflation or hyperinflation are precious metals like gold and silver. Want to know why? Because the government can’t just print more gold and silver, you see… 
    What people should be doing is securing their own family and economic condition by preparation. Disasters are only bad for people who don’t have preparation. Change is only bad for the person who refused to prepare for the change in advance.  Taken another way, this hyperinflation event is a great way for people to get rich quick. A hyperinflation even is essentially a huge wealth transfer.

  • Ymarsakar

    The reason they print more money to reduce the debt is simple. Say you have 2 trillion in total currency circulation. 1 trillion of it is debt. If you print 2 more trillion, you now have 4 trillion in total currency and your debt is basically 500 billion in original worth. Even if the newly printed money isn’t used at all to pay off the debt/interest, the value of the debt DECREASES.

    Just like the value of your 401ks and your real estates and your etc.

    See how that works? 

  • Mike Devx

    I agree concerning the debt situation, but that reduction of the value of the debt would seem to be true only if inflation were occurring.  And from 2002 until sometime mid-last year, inflation simply refused to rear its ugly head.  It is starting to show up now, though.  I still cannot understand why it wasn’t showing up years ago.

    Remember the loss in value did not begin with Obama.  It started in 2002.

  • Ymarsakar

    Years ago the economy was growing and recovering under Bush. It only started in 2008 because.

  • Mike Devx

    Was it a crime to send these guns over the border  to the cartels, knowing that they would be used against us, and then failing to track them?  Stupid, dangerous, and completely incompetent, yes. But illegal such that Eric Holder and a few others should be in jail?  

    If reckless driving can earn you a manslaughter charge, and prison time, then perhaps Fast-And-Furious should earn jail time for these Administration buffoons as well.  But I doubt Obama, as President, could be gotten.  It sure seems something akin to manslaughter could be charged such that they’d end up in prison… but I doubt it somehow.
    Repeated actions of this level of stupidity, arrogance, and total incompetence means this Administration should be booted out of office as soon as possible, even if no crime has been committed.  Unfortunately, that probably means the earliest we get to boot them out is November, 2012.

    As to the long-standing question of whether this administration is maliciously, consciously evil, or just utterly stupid and incompetent, I think the picture that buzzed around the internet yesterday answers the question.  (This is the picture where all the leaders of State are gathered for the picture in rows, and Obama is actually waving at the camera when the picture is shot… thus obscuring, totally hiding, the face of the leader standing next to him.)

    That picture defines total stupidity.  No one that stupid can be consciously, deliberately evil.  Obama is simply a profoundly stupid man.  Not evil.

  • Mike Devx

    If I can add one more thing:

    Perhaps it will be proven that Fast-And-Furious was a deliberate program along the lines of what we’ve come to call a Cloward-Piven strategy: The manufactured crisis.  In this case, the goal would have been to, yes, have those guns be used to murder Americans, thus leading to massive gun control here in America.  If that can be proven to be the goal, then it does rise to the level of evil, not just massive stupidity and incompetence.  But we’d have to prove that that was an actual goal, not just a “risk” of running the program.

    God, I cannot wait until these complete idiots (or evil bastards?) are out of office.

  • suek

    >>Was it a crime to send these guns over the border to the cartels, knowing that they would be used against us, and then failing to track them? Stupid, dangerous, and completely incompetent, yes. But illegal such that Eric Holder and a few others should be in jail? >>

    (Plus your second comment)

    Think about this for a moment. “failing to track them”…now…how would it be possible to track them? and even if they did, what possible benefit would it have? Were they going to send US agents into Mexico to arrest the recipients? Or maybe the Mexican police were going to do the job? But they didn’t _tell_ the Mexican police – or anyone else in the Mexican government.

    So…tracking is bogus.

    On the other hand, we already know that the Mexican government has been complaining that US guns are being shipped into their country. So when a large number of them show up, and the Mexican government has _proof_ that they come from the US, and the US government has _proof_ of where they come from (individual point of sale)…what happens next? If you take the store owners to court for illegal sales, will they be able to prove that they did so with instructions from ATF? Except for the guy who had the recordings, pretty tough, I think. Bet there’s nothing on paper. Even if the store owner is unsuccessfully prosecuted, how many do you think will be able to stay in business? And just how many permits to open stores will be forthcoming thereafter? how many permits for drilling in the Gulf have been issued? There’s more than one way to keep a door closed.

    So…Cloward-Pivens…maybe not exactly, but creating a crisis in order to “not let it go to waste”…_definitely_.

  • Ymarsakar

    Exactly so, Suek.

    It wasn’t due to incompetence. The ATF told Holder that they couldn’t track anything once it got into Mexico. The ATF were told to shut up and obey Orders. And they did.

     Someone that hasn’t seen the extent of evil, cannot adequately distinguish it from the crowd.

    It’s not “perhaps it will be proven” since it already has been.

     People seem to be under the misconception that evil requires a certain intention. That’s not so.


  • Mike Devx

    Ymar says,
    People seem to be under the misconception that evil requires a certain intention. That’s not so.

    I’ve always defined evil or good by the intent, not the result, Ymar…  I’m intrigued.  What does evil require, if not a certain intention?

  • Ymarsakar

    If hell is paved with good intentions, then it’s obvious evil either requires good intentions or that good intentions are irrelevant. For the other corollary is that hell is paved with evil intentions: given that, evil either needs evil intentions or evil intentions are irrelevant.

    Since it’s fundamentally apparent that evil requires neither good intentions nor evil intentions, for it has been presented to be able to use both, all that is left is the secondary logic conclusion that the intentions do not matter. Evill cannot require evil intentions, for it is shown that evil also uses good intentions. Evil does not require good intentions, for it has been shown that evil intentions work as well. Thus the reasonable conclusion that evil exists in the realm where intentions are irrelevant.


  • Ymarsakar

    Humanocentrism, multiculturalism, and egocentrism basically says that what humans perceive as evil is simply a product of our own desires and actions. Essentially, if human beings were to cease to exist from the universe, evil and good would also cease to exist. This is in direct contradiction to various philosophical lines with an investment in metaphysics and epistemology that transcend humanism. So far, philosophy has done most of its work dealing with humans and the consequences of our actions, since a universe without humans may be theoretically imaginable but it is of zero practical worth. However, with the resurrection of various anti-human prejudices and death cults like the Left, this subject matter (Gaia vs humans, and humans are evil) has become all too relevant in the modern era.


  • Ymarsakar

    If good is the creation of an infinite wealth curve, prosperity everlasting, and a total greater than the sum of its parts, then what perchance do you think evil would be?

    The exact opposite. Zero sum economic theory. For someone else to gain, someone else must lose. For the US to be powerful, it must be because the US stole somebody else’s land and resources. The total becomes less than the sum of its parts. 20 million Africans put together equals about the sum total work done by 500,000 Asians. Does that make sense now? If 20 million humans can only do the work of 500,000 humans, why not just wipe out 3 billion humans and save on the excess environmental damage to Gaia? You see where this goes…

    That is the fundamental METAPHYSICS of good and evil. What consequence it has on reality, the fabric of our existence. Whether that be on this planet or any other.

     In philosophy, the two key foundations are metaphysics and epistemology. From those two, we acquire ethics: what is good or evil. From what is good or evil, we derive politics, the ideal path we should taken given the nature of good and evil in human affairs. Beyond politics and ethics, we have aesthetics or beauty: the ideal of the ideal.

    Intentions are at the political level or even at the ethical level. What people “intend” to do, whether that be “good” or “evil”, “corruption” or “harmony”. But at its core, evil starts from a metaphysical and epistemological definition first. That’s the root. Everything else is only a derivation based upon key core principles.

     This is why Leftists and Nazis and Socialists and Communists are said by Danny to be the same gangs, with different colors: so to speak. They all have “different politics” and all have different intentions varying between good and bad, nice and evil. But metaphysically… they’re the same thing. They all DO the same thing to humanity one way or another.