With Republicans in their line of sight again, Democrats revert to Nazi tropes

The one thing that’s been nice about Obama’s presidency is the fact that the Democrats ramped down their Nazi rhetoric.  It used to be that you couldn’t open a Leftist web page without hearing that Bush and Cheney were Nazis, and that every Republican policy initiative promised to create a new Holocaust.

Sadly, the impulse to cheapen oneself and the Holocaust in one fell swoop was dormant, not dead.  Now that the Republicans have fielded a viable presidential candidate, the Democrats are once again talking about Nazis and Big Lies and Holocausts.  Jeff Dunetz, at Yid With Lid, explains just how horrible this tic-like comparison is, insofar as it destroys our ability to understand one of the greatest atrocities in history, even while it degrades our own political discourse.

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  • PaulScott

    Maybe there would be fewer Nazi accusations if Romney, and especially, Ryan, were to stop using the “Big Lie” technique coined by Hitler and championed by Joseph Goebbels.

    Your very own Fox News found Ryan’s speech to be full of lies. See: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/.

    And as a former marathoner with a 2:58:23 PR, I found Ryan’s assertion that he’d run a 2:50 marathon absurd when the best he could do was 4:01. In the world of running, that’s a huge lie! His claim of “forgetting” is another lie. Training for, and running a marathon means many months of daily runs and stop watches calculating pace. You don’t forget your only marathon time that easy. 

  • http://bookwormroom.com Bookworm

    PaulScott:  Ryan definitely exaggerated his running prowess.  We all do that as memory’s fade and the thrill of victory lingers in our mind.  As for the Fox News article, it was written by a far Left lefty, who is part of Fox’s laudatory “fair and balanced” presentation.  You would not see her conservative like at MSNBC.  You really need to get out of your information ghetto.  Life’s very exciting on the other side of those walls.

  • shirleyelizabeth

    The time Ryan quoted brings me to wonder if he’s also run half-marathons and mixed up the two, as I have done in casual conversation (for different races. I hope to never have the urge to race a marathon – though it seems to be part of the mid-thirties crisis for many women I know). I really don’t know how much he runs, but, for me personally, the times all muddle together unless you stop and think slowly.
     

  • http://furtheradventuresofindigored.blogspot.com/ Indigo Red

    Ah, yes. I can see it clearly. The Democrats wore blue, the NAZI tropes wore gray.

  • weathtd

    Anybody that would run that far when there’s not some one shooting at them has something wrong.

  • jj

    Yeah, one commentator – who happens to be an ass – found Ryan’s speech to be less than 100% truthful, but not very much less.  And some of that’s up for interpretation.  (I for one do not give any part of a rodent’s anatomy when the GM plant closed, the point was Jugears said he’d keep it open.  When it closed has not a thing in the world to do with (a) the truth of what Ryan said; or (b) what the little jackass currently in the white house said.  He said it would stay open, it closed.  Period.  That’s simple and straightforward enough even for a democrat, isn’t it?)
     
    Paul Scott, I don’t know whether it’s beyond the realm of possibility that someone who works out four hours a day and carries single-digit body fat could run a marathon eight minutes faster than you can, but I certainly wouldn’t find it “absurd,” because on its face there’s nothing “absurd” about it.  Maybe Ryan didn’t – but don’t act like it’s not possible.  I’m pretty sure I didn’t see you in London last month.
     
    And don’t get too deep into listing lies, either.  You don’t want to compare Jugears’ list with practically anybody else.  He might come out positively vs. Pelosi, but she has issues, to put it kindly.  With the sentient world he doesn’t do so well.  Let’s see… he lies than Biden?  Maybe.  Less than Debbie Schultz?  Well – could be.  Less than Reid?  Entirely possible.  Less than Kid Carney, with his six blazing two-guns?  Possible. 
     
    Watching the mayor of Los Angeles try to figure out what the hell he’s doing as the chair of this mess, to amend the reference to allow mention of either God or Jerusalem.  Three strikes, Anthony, you’re out.  Quite obviously to anyone blessed with ears, the good ol’ democraps voted God and Jerusalem down, but Villagarosa decided that “in the opinion of the chair” the ayes, to put God and Jerusalem back into the festivities, had it by the necessary two thirds.  Which is of course hilarious, and only confirms that Anthony’s not only a dope, he’s a deaf dope.  But he’s smart enough to recognize when it’s necessary to pander to America, in hopes of keeping at least some part of this rotting vessel afloat.  Gee, Anthony, there you are, on national TV, trying thrice for your people to at least make a pretense of being reasonable – and when it didn’t happen, you had to pretend – officially pretend, no less – that it did.
     
    And anybody here has anything to say about anybody’s else’s strict adherence to the truth?  I’ve already hurt myself once laughing at this mess on my television, don’t make me hysterical here, too!  I’ll require hospitalization. 
     
     

  • PaulScott

    Hey JJ, looks like Lyin’ Ryan ran a 4:01:25. Not too shabby, but definitely absurd to think he misremembered it as sub 3:00. :~)

  • Lulu11

    Oh now I get it. Say the wrong race time (about yourself) and you’re just like genocidal mass murderers who spread vile lies via media and propaganda films about an entire people leading to their brutalization and horrific deaths.
    Thanks for the deep insight, JJ.

  • Charles Martel

    It’s wonderful to find out that Fox News, which I never watch, is my very own! Thank you, PaulScott. Without Light Bearers like you I wouldn’t know these things.
     
    Whether Ryan lied about his marathon time (I also find 2:50 to be too good to believe), I compare his fib to Obama’s lie about his 3.8 GPA at Oxy and Columbia.
     
    [PaulScott whispers in Martel's ear:]  What???? The smartest man to ever occupy the presidency won’t tell people his grades? What’s up with that?

  • Lulu11

    Oops. Sorry JJ. I meant PaulScott. Forgive me! My mistake must mean I am a Nazi!!

  • Libby

    Comparing Republicans to Nazis seems to indicate that they’re seeing Romney and Haley as threats. The name calling from the Left is tiring, but they clearly have no better arguments.
    Re: Ryan – Looks like they’ve settled on calling Ryan a liar, since the usual smears – stupid, greedy, and crazy – were too ridiculous for him. Can’t wait to see SNL and Comedy Central pick up the ball and drive this “liar” label home. Ah, memories of the Palin destruction come flooding back…

  • Charles Martel

    When I was 3 years old I had an encounter with a slightly older kid who had a far bigger vocabulary than I, especially when it came to nasty words.
     
    Somehow we’d gotten into a argument, and I flang every naughty word I knew at him. He not only laughed at my stream of poo poos, pee pees, and cacas, he replied with strange sounding words that I’d never heard but knew instinctively were like nukes to my cherry bombs.
     
    Think of the Democrats and the rest of the clueless left as 3-year-old me. They’ve got their poo poos and pee pees, but on the adult side, where we reside, we have ever so much more. For every “Nazi!” they fling, we have, “Empty Chair,” “Bows to Dictators,” “Mannerless Punk Who Puts His Feet Up on the People’s Furniture,” “Infanticide Advocate,” “Spendthrift,” “Jew Hater,” “Plays Golf While Rome Burns,” “Ignoramus (’57 states, ‘corpse,’ ‘Austrian language,’ ‘intercontinental railroad’),” “Solyndra Whore.”

  • Mike Devx

    Hey everyone, remember that Paul Scott is a die-hard liberal and frantically devoted Obama acolyte.  Don’t waste your time!   Forgive him his irrational exuberance.  A Democrat Convention ran by hard-leftists can only come around once every four years.  Of *course* he’s going to be so jazzed, he’s going to run in here, head over to a corner, tongue wagging, lift his leg, and soil the carpet.

     

  • PaulScott

    Oh come on, Mike, I was having fun. You blew my cover.
    :~) 

  • Danny Lemieux

    Why is it so hard to Fact Check Ryan’s speech oneself instead of slavishly relying on partisan pundits to do it for you?

    In fact, one can so easily Fact Check the Fact Checkers.

    First, you could actually try to read what Ryan said.

    Second, use the internet.

    Here….try this: Google [Janesville General Motors 2009].

    Whoopsie! 

  • jj

    I, meanwhile, am finding that watching this convention is better than watching Red Skelton – and Red was trying to be funny.  But even he couldn’t beat that they’ve made a heroine of Sandra Fluke, who just wants to fuke, and wants it consequence-free – on all of us, of course; followed by Princess Fauxcahontas; and closed out by that revered statesman, ol’ I-Did-Not-Have-Sex-With-That-Woman himself.  Holy cats, you couldn’t write this stuff!  There’s three aces for you!  This has been really good for me, except I think I may have broken a rib laughing.  Thanks to a benevolent providence we have the next 18 hours off; if I had to keep this up I’d end the night in the emergency room.  I’m not as young as I once was you know, democrats! 

    Most people who are found to be disgusting, repellant scoundrels walk away with some shame after a while, and try to lead quiet lives henceforward.  Not democrats.  Not that fat drunken lecher from Massachusetts; not this other fat lying lecher from Shitkick Central – and instead of shunning them, as you might expect decent people to do, the democrats choose to lionize them.  Thereby incidentally announcing to the world that they are in fact not decent people.  Which we knew anyway, but it’s bizarre to see it paraded – with pride, yet! – before us.  (The paradox of being decent is that you have to let the indecent get away with their behavior, up to the point where they draw blood.)

    And I did enjoy watching them self-identify as godless and anti-Israel earlier tonight.  I no longer feel obligated to entertain discussion on those subjects, they have spoken for themselves.  Quite clearly, despite Villairagosa’s best efforts to pretend otherwise.  You can’t make this stuff up, and we’ve been provided with laughs for months – and punchlines for the next decade.  I’m having a fine time.        

  • Gringo

    I have noticed that a lot of the people who claim that R/R are liars will not cite specific instances, but will link to an article that alleges these so-called lies. PaulScott , with the exception of Ryan’s marathon times, does this.  Charles Blow did this in a NYT article. If PaulScott had any integrity, he would not simply link but inform us what precisely R/R said that is a lie, and why.
     
     For example Ryan was cited as  a liar about what he said about the Janestown GM auto plant. Turns out Ryan was telling the truth here, and that the “fact checkers” were grossly inaccurate about their characterization of Ryan’s statement on the auto plant.
     
     
     
     

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com Ymarsakar

    The fact that Democrats live, degrades our species. Get your priorities straight here.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com Ymarsakar

    “Forgive him his irrational exuberance.”

    I forgive no man stomping on weak children and the disadvantaged in this world. Nor will I ever. Best I will allow is a quick and painless death, to pave the future of freedom in the cleansing nature of blood.

     The problem with Demoncrats isn’t that they can’t recognize good or evil. It’s that they often conveniently ally with mankind’s depravities and lusts in order to further their own personal ambitions, and then later brushes their hands of this blood consequence.

     People often get fooled by the Left into thinking they care about truth, transparency, law, and order because they talk about it all the time. In fact, that is the very proof of the exact opposite.

    I can guarantee you that the first Leftist that comes here talking about truth, is in fact a lying used cars salesman. Take it for what it is worth, no more, no less. 

  • PaulScott

    JJ said, “And I did enjoy watching them self-identify as godless and anti-Israel earlier tonight.”
    So, JJ, does this mean you believe in a god? Wow, want to explain what that means? Do you believe there’s some old guy in the sky, or are you one of those “spiritual” types? 

  • Danny Lemieux

    I agree with PaulScott – it is a good thing that the Democrat party is out in the open, up-front about its atheism. Yes, indeed.

    I don’t get why the Democrats keep trying to link Republicans to Nazis, however, given the Nazi (National Socialist) identification with socialist/progressive movements. 1930s American progressives proudly identified with other socialist/progressives, such as Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini.

    It’s a bit like Democrats accusing Republicans of being Confederates or KKK members.

    A real disconnect there. It is possible, of course, that they are referencing alternate universes.

  • Charles Martel

    Danny, I agree. As shown by his snark toward jj above, PS pretty much shows us the current face of the left—reduced to insults that people by the millions are simply rolling their eyes at and tuning out.
     
    Watching the left shed the benign mask and self-destruct has been one of the great popcorn events of my life.

  • jj

    I do not have a need to explain my beliefs, they aren’t germane, are they.  Who cares what I believe – I’m not trying to pass myself off as anything, run for any office, or sell any particular line of BS to anybody.  What in the hell would be the relevance of my beliefs?

    “And I did enjoy watching them self-identify as godless and anti-Israel earlier tonight.”  So, JJ, does this mean you believe in a god?   How do you, or how does anyone, extrapolate from my remark anything beyond the remark?   The answer to the question, which I would have thought plainly apparent to children, is: I enjoyed watching them self-identify as godless and anti-Israel.  There is no “so” anything that comes after that, nor need there be.  I suppose I could expand my original remark to: I also enjoyed watching Anthony Villairagosa squirm like a gaffed mackerel as he struggled for a way to pretend they weren’t saying what they were plainly saying on national television, but that’s as far as it goes.  My beliefs were not relevant, nor out for an airing last night on national TV – and an amusingly large percentage of those in the hall failed to recognize that theirs were.

    I expect that the clip of Villairagosa’s performance, as rank and file democrats announce their honest position – available for your delectation on youtube – is already being incorporated into a Romney ad.  And, though I am 3,000 miles from Manhattan I believe I can hear Ann Coulter laughing, as the babes in the Charlotte woods firmly establish the truth of every word of a theory about them she propounded some time ago, called Godless.

    This is, I repeat, good stuff.  Better than you could make up. 
         

      

  • PaulScott

    Danny Lemieux, You wonder why Dems link Repubs to the Nazis, well it’s pretty easy to understand for even the least intelligent among the Bookworm gang. The Republicans tell a lie, a big one. Then they keep telling it often and loudly, hoping enough people believe it and will then vote for their side.

    This is a textbook case of Joseph Goebbels’ “Big Lie” technique. See, it was THAT easy! 

  • PaulScott

    JJ, you certainly don’t HAVE to explain your beliefs re a god, I was just curious. 

    I’m an avowed atheist and proud of the fact I don’t believe religious fairy tales. Maybe you believe in the fairy tales and can’t quite reconcile them with the hard science bent of the discussions on this list, or maybe you’re an atheist like me, but don’t want to admit it since many on this list do believe the fairy tales. 

     If you are somehow ashamed of your beliefs and don’t want to share them with this group, I understand. 

  • Charles Martel

    “I’m an avowed atheist and proud of the fact I don’t believe religious fairy tales.”
     
    You are proud of what you don’t believe? If this is an example of how the left reasons, I think I’ll remain a die-hard knuckle walker.
     
     

  • jj

    Interesting, Scott.  You apparently have the capacity to discern “fairy tales” from whichever fountainhead with which you are in fundamental disagreement, and care to blame for promulgating them, (Rome, Mecca, etc., etc.); but are utterly lacking in ability to spot the fairy tales that emanate as a matter of routine from the democrat party.  An interesting, but not unexpected, inability to spot the beam in your own eye.
     
    The point is not that you, or I, or anybody here believes or doesn’t believe in much of anything.  The point is that the democrat party, on some subliminal level, is bright enough to recognize that they are – perhaps regrettably – located in a country sufficiently backward that a majority of its citizens – and 90% of its voting non-citizens, good Catholic Latinos – do happen to believe.  They believe, and they are further inclined to regard it as a matter of some importance.  Therefore, said democrat party has to spin them something we might refer to as a “fairy tale,” in order to keep them on the same page.  Sadly, not everybody got the memo, and the delegates in the hall made it quite plain that it was a fairy tale, despite that Villairagosa gave them three opportunities to think it through, get their minds right, remember that they were on TV, and try to sell it.  They didn’t, and so it is very plainly obvious that democrat belief in either God, or the idea of support for Israel are fairy tales.  (I suppose we could commend them for being admirably honest.  On the other hand, what does one say about a party that jeers the notion of God, but cheers Bill Clinton and that other sack of offal from Massachusetts?)
     
    It interests me that your inbuilt “fairy tale” spotting mechanism remains honed in the one direction, but no better than a butter-knife that’s been through the disposal in the other.  After all, is a fairy tale not a fairy tale, no matter who utters it? 

  • Danny Lemieux

    Paul Ryan was said to have “lied” by the Democrats when he cited the Janesville, WI plant closing, but was in fact telling the truth (like I said, Google it). But the Democrats insist on repeating THE BIG LIE and then charge Ryan with being like Goebbels, SC Governor Nikki Haley for being like “Eva Braun” and Romney for being like “Hitler”. Uh huh! 

    OK…so, what was the Nazi platform?

    1. Universal health care
    2. Control of “fair” wages by government-sponsored labor unions.
    3. Control of business policies and planning by government in pursuit of national goals.
    4. Control of information
    5. Encouragement of sexual promiscuity
    6. Universal education.
    7. Militant environmentalism.
    8. Replacement of Christianity with a materialist religion.
    9. Elimination of peopled deemed to be inferior (an ideology refined largely by American progressives like Madison Grant, Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger and others).
    10. Anti-semitism and open support of anti-Jewish organizations.

    Nope, doesn’t sound like a Republican Party plank to me. Does remind me of something, however. Hmm…what could it be?

  • PaulScott

    JJ, I know reality from myths and lies. I have The Google!

    Yes, sometimes the Dems lie or make inane statements, but they are few and far between compared to the Repubs.

    The difference between me and the rest of you on this list is our fundamental belief of what humanity could and should be doing. We probably agree on more than you think. I’m against open border, for instance, although probably for somewhat different reasons than you. I’m for personal responsibility up to a point, and conduct my life in such a way that I try to limit my impact on others and the environment since I don’t feel it’s my right to negatively affect others without compensating them for doing so.

    My liberal friends disagree with me on unions. I see the need for them in some instances, but believe most unions are close to evil.

    See, we have somethings in common. Maybe we can build a rapport from that. 

  • jj

    I disagree with you fundamentally, which makes it unlikely.  Democrat lies are in fact neither few, nor are they far between, (nor are they small); when compared to republican lies.  The democrats are far more accomplished liars than republicans are.  They always have been, by reason of the fact that they appeal to the emotions, not the brains.  To take one of the howlingly obvious examples, they’ve been lying – successfully, too – about the relationship between their party and the American black population since, oh, let’s say April 16, 1862, when 83% of democrats voted against Lincoln’s bill to abolish slavery.  Now that’s 150 years and 4 months – a long time to sustain a lie, you might think.  The democrat party seems to find it so effortless that to this day they take the black vote as a given.  That’s based on a lie I suspect even Hitler and Goebbels would admire: it’s not “big,” it’s “gigantic.”  And it’s contradicted by all of American history, and that doesn’t matter at all, not a microscopic bit to democrats, who continue to sell themselves as all-time friends to the African-American community!  You have to admire the chutzpah, if nothing else.
     
    The democrat party is also often caught – as the not-so-swift often are – on the horns of their own projection, too.  When you do something lousy, and on some level you’re ashamed of it, it’s a common psychological defense to accuse those with whom you’re in disagreement, or those to whom you are opposed, of having done that precise thing themselves.  Truth need not apply, or be relevant.  Every time there’s an election, democrats mobilize lawyers by the thousand to make sure no rannygazoo takes place.  (“Democrat lawyers,” I wonder how they’d recognize it – but that’s another story.)  I know – and history in fact only knows – of one national election that was stolen, and that was in 1960 and it was a democrat who stole it.  Most historians admit this, these days, now that everybody’s dead and the damage done.  And yet: democrats accuse republicans of it routinely.
     
    Now, I’ll save you some wear and tear on your fingertips, because I’m nice: don’t even go there with George W. Bush.  That is another democrat (fairly hefty) lie.  The supreme court did not award the election to Bush.  What they did was prevent the Florida supreme court from stealing it for anybody.  All they said was: “Florida, you got rules for handling recounts.  You don’t get to change them at 10:00 Wednesday morning, the day after the election, while you’re engaged in one.  You want to change those rules, you get your legislature to do it after this one’s completed.  For this one, you finish it with the rules you started with, you don’t change them halfway along.”  That is the entirety of what the supreme court said, and the entirety of their involvement.  And yet you, and 99% of democrats, are rock-solid in your belief that they stole the election and awarded it to Bush, aren’t you.  (Note the lack of question-mark.  I’m not asking you.)  Another huge lie, that’s become part of the democrat bedrock.
     
    Most of what you call Paul Ryan’s lies are in fact differences of opinion: you simply don’t like them.  (Doesn’t matter when the damn GM plant closed, Jugears said he’d keep it open.  It’s not open!) There is a difference between a lie and a difference of opinion.  That the democrats have spent 150 years pissing on American blacks while simultaneously lying successfully enough to be able to take them for granted is not a difference of opinion: it’s an historical fact.  That JFK stole the 1960 election and GWB did not steal the one in 2000 are not differences of opinion: go read the historians on 1960, and the court’s opinion in 2000.
     
    You don’t recognize the difference, any better than you do the non-difference between fairy tales from the bible and fairy tales emanating from the democrat convention.  It’ll make rapport tough.

  • Danny Lemieux

    Since we are talking about “Big Lies”, JJ, one that began the process of my separation from the Democrat Party was Walter Cronkite’s declaration that the Vietnam “Tet Offensive” had been a catastrophic defeat for the U.S., when the opposite was true.

    Even North Vietnam’s General Giap admitted in his memoirs that Tet was a catastrophe for the North and that they were on the verge of giving up…until the Democrat Left and Uncle Walt came to the rescue.

  • Mike Devx

    I don’t take any Nazi tropes seriously, nor anyone who utters them.

    What fascinates me is the hold Nazis continue to have within modern thought.  Nazi Germany remains the only example of a “modern civilization” that voluntarily descended into madness and evil.   And that used all the tools of modern civilization – efficient planning, organization, systematic and detailed planning, all in the service of the slaughter of millions of Jews, along with other groups.  Most of the rest of us employ all the sophisticated techniques we can to sell things to each other; the Nazis employed theirs in the extermination of millions.

    Nearly all other examples of madness that leads to the murder of millions, we can point to some sense of backwardness, barbarism, tribalism, etc, to help explain the evil.  Germany in the early 30s was among the most civilized of nations, hence the feeling that “it can’t happen here”.

    There’s something horridly fascinating in the efficiency, the “just in time” planning, the scheduling…

    Maybe as the world continues to darken, we’ll find that the Nazis were just a hundred years ahead of their time.  Now there’s a darker thought.
     

  • Charles Martel

    Mike and jj are on to something important about the left and how it thinks: The left constantly projects Nazi-like tendencies onto conservatives when it is the left that believes in almost everything that the Nazis believed in, with the possible exception of mass murdering Jews (their proxy Iran can do that; besides, the left’s contemporary equivalent of genocide is what it’s allowing Planned Parenthood to do to black babies in American cities.)
     
    On the other hand, I cannot think of anything conservatives believe—low taxes, small government, treating black Americans as equals, supporting Israel, reporters that tell the truth—that comes anywhere near Nazi beliefs.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com Ymarsakar

    The Left can’t give up on the Nazis because they still feel bitter about how they were their brethren in arms against the Western capitalist pigs, up until the Nazis stabbed dear old Stalin in the back and made all of communism look like weak fools. The pain of having to double talk out of their mouths that their great fascist allies now becomes their great fascist pig enemies, well… that can scar an ideology based upon totalitarian perfection.

    When a Leftist speaks of the Nazis, it’s a boy speaking of his father abandoning him to the cruelties of life.

     

  • PaulScott

    I enjoy sparring with you guys sometimes, but when I read crap like that from Ymarsakar, it just makes me sad. It’s one thing to have differing opinions on matters of substance, but to make a grandiose claim as he does in this post, goes beyond the pale. I’m a liberal, most of my friends are liberals, and I’ve met thousands of like minded liberals over the years. Not a single one of them fit the description he makes of being somehow associated with Nazis or Stalin. You just look silly saying so.

  • SADIE

    Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies

    As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches, Godwin believes the ubiquity of such comparisons trivializes the Holocaust.
     
      

  • Danny Lemieux

    If it’s any consolation, PaulScott, nothing that you have written would paint you as a “Nazi” or “Stalinist”.

    This whole thread began with people on the Democrat Left making references to conservatives being “Nazis” (we cited three examples in this thread). And, let’s not forget the “BushHitler” memes of yesteryear. This has been our response. 

    Despite Ymarsaker’s sometimes flamboyant commentary, his historical references are correct, however: there was a close identification between American progressives and communists and the European fascist movements, including the Nazi party…until Hitler attacked Stalin, whereupon the American communists turned on him. These movements derived from a common source, namely 18th Century materialist philosophers like Rousseau and the leaders of the French revolution.

    Conservatives, on other hand, promote limited government and individualism that go very much against these historical utopian movements.

    Several of us that post regularly on this blog (myself, David Foster, Charles Martel, Bookworm, etc.) often reference WWII, either because we find it intellectually fascinating or because it had major effects on family members that were caught in the war zone (e.g., Bookworm’s family and my own). One of the areas of personal interest to me is how someone like Hitler was so brilliantly successful in getting people to follow him into disaster. My conclusion is that Hitler was not just a German phenomenon. He was a utopian who crystallized a utopian-progressive vision of society that, unfortunately, still resonates today. I have many Liberal-Progressive family members and friends who, frankly, scare me because I recognize how they easily they can be mesmerized into accepting truly evil things in pursuit of what they perceive to be a great utopian “good”. In the 1920s and 1930s, it was the elimination of designated “inferiors”, such as East European immigrants and blacks (the American progressives). Today it is babies with birth defects and the elderly (Singer, Planned Parenthood).

    Of course, these Progressives don’t recognize that capability within themselves. Neither did many “good” Germans, until after the fact. Those of us on this blog that are religious recognize that human beings are dual-natured. We all fight within ourselves day-in, day-out to make the right choices between good and evil and all the grey that is in between. It isn’t easy. What happened in Germany was not specific to Nazis, it was endemic to human nature. That’s why we try to recognize and understand it, so it never happens again.

  • PaulScott

    Thanks Danny, it’s good to read something from a rational person. 

  • Charles Martel

    Danny, extending the discussion a bit, it has always interested me how the modern era’s utopian movements have  taken on the most pronounced cultural attributes of the nations that have succumbed to them.
     
    The Germans, ever organized, and resentful of being denied what they saw as their rightful place in the European sun, yearned for an efficient, race-centered utopia. The Russians, far more ethnically mixed to begin with and mired in much greater poverty than the Germans, based their utopia on romanticized envy—the essential building block of communism and socialism.
     
    While the Russians, who have always been genial slobs (slushy cold bad weather makes it hard to keep things tidy) were content to murder millions by exiling them to distant work camps with no particular death quota, the always industrious Germans simply created death factories designed to function until they ran out of raw material. 
     
    An American utopia would reflect the obsessions of its creators and seem almost like a parody of the Buddha’s Noble Path: Right Race, Right Status, Right Speech, Right Sex.
     
    Right Race simply means that white guilt would continue as a bedrock element in the official utopian narrative.
     
    Right Status would accrue to those people who have certification from certain elite colleges, work for the government or non-profits, are women, are not practicing Jews or Catholics, are Muslim, are gay, or work in law or the media.
     
    Right Speech would mean that no objections to homosexuality, abortion, Islam, crony capitalism, affirmative action, public employee unions or other sacred cows could be printed or uttered without calling down official reprisals.
     
    Right Sex would reflect the “Brave New World” sexual obsessions of the American utopians—the equality of heterosexual and homosexual sex (and the implied superiority of the latter); the right to unlimited abortion, up to moments before live birth; the forcible provision of contraceptives and abortifacients by churches, synagogues (Muslims excepted), employers, private schools; a renewed movement toward eugenics; and teaching solely the non-procreative aspects and mechanics of sex in the public schools.
     
    Technically speaking, people who do not follow the Noble Fourfold Path would be allowed to live in relative peace, much like dhimmis in Muslim society. If they attempted to protest or agitate against the American utopia, our cultural predisposition to settle everything non-violently through the exercise of law means that anti-utopian protestors would be hounded to death by lawsuits, no-knock raids, tax audits, identity thefts, sudden firings, and behind-the-back denunciations by neighbors.
     
    No gulag, no Auschwitz. A humane utopia!
     
     

  • Gringo

    PaulScott:  Thanks Danny, it’s good to read something from a rational person.
     
    If you come to this blog intending to  annoy people, you have succeeded. If you come to this blog intending to convince others, you have been an utter failure.
     
    The above quote is, to put it mildly, smug and condescending. You are not going to win any people over to your point of view  by being smug and condescending.  On the other hand, smug and condescending is what libs do. Like Book and many of the commenters here, I was formerly a lib, so don’t have the effrontery to inform me that I don’t know libs. Moreover, I  live in a blue town, so I regularly get exposed to libs.
     
    Many libs have the default view of wingnuts as ignorant, knuckle-dragging, racist, Bible thumpers. Your comments to Danny and others partake of at least part of that point of view.  Your comments on atheism remind me of how I thought when I was an atheist. Upon further reflection I decided that the assumptions underlying atheism reflected arrogance and ignorance, and became an agnostic.
     
    I find your “hard science” remark rather amusing, as my experience has been that those who cry “hard science” and the like to proclaim their intellectual superiority quite often have a STEM background consisting of Physics for Poets- if that. Al Gore and the POTUS- “flat earth Republicans”-  are examples. From my experience, real scientists tend to be more humble, as they have come up against  their knowledge limitations. Another reason that real scientists tend to be more humble than you,  is that  when they were very bright children many learned the hard way that acting as a know-it-all does not win friends and influence people, so in later years they learned to tone it down.
     
    I have a STEM background with a Master’s degree, for what that is worth.
     
    Your proclaiming “Fox link shows Pubs are liars” is not going to convince many people. You are either too lazy or lack the intellectual capacity to explain to us  precisely what it was that Pubs said was a lie, and why.
     
    Vice Presidential candidate Paul Ryan’s lie/misstatement on his marathon times is not going to convince many, due to the decades of lies, misstatements and plagiarisms coming from Vice President Biden. I doubt you would compare Vice President Biden to the Nazis. I wouldn’t. What Ryan said about the Janestown closing was accurate. He  did not lie. As a result, the “Ryan lies” statements on what Ryan said about the Janestown closing has convinced me that any Demo who merely proclaims “Pubs lie” – as you have done- is simply trying to smear Pubs.
     
    Have you no decency?
     

  • PaulScott

    Have you no decency?”

    I have lots of decency. Thanks for asking. 

  • Caped Crusader

     We live on an island surrounded by a sea of ignorance. As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore line of our ignorance   ……..   
    John Archibald Wheeler
     
    A true scientist realizes the profound truth of this statement, and rather than his head expanding to such a diameter as to be unable to find a hat to fit his head, is humbled by realizing how little he really knows, as each new discovery unfolds.

  • Mike Devx

    I wish our statements about scientists – that they are humble, that they have learned to recognize their own limits and the limits of the current state of their science – applied to those “scientists” involved in the global warming, climate change, and sustainability fields.
     

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com Ymarsakar

    Decency is paid per Green ticket from Al Gore, dontcha know. The more you buy, the more you get. Of course “they would have it”. After all, when Hollywood directors can have immunity, why not used car salesmen.

  • http://ymarsakar.wordpress.com Ymarsakar

    Rules are for the status quo giants. The rules for radicals determine the life and death of a nation, and its culture. People need to forget the bygone rules of the past that have been co-opted by the Left, and use the Left’s own rules against them. For even the chaotic handmaidens of evil need some rules to go by. And it is those rules that they will fall prey to, the only rules, laws, in existence that they can be made to care about. Hold them to their own standards, the Left’s standards, and shatter them with their own pretensions and hypocrisies. There is no other justice in this world left to the enslaved masses.

     I don’t really expect the Left’s cannon fodder to know all the secrets and mysteries hidden in their own movement and plan for human de-evolution. That is why they are the cannon fodder, not the leadership. It is why Osama and Zarqawi and all the rest of the AQ leadership didn’t blow themselves up as suicide bombers. That is for the Cannon Fodder, you see. The cannon fodder exists to do just that. They don’t exist to tell the Left or any of us, what to do, because they aren’t going to last long enough in the fight for a conversation to result.

     That’s why their extermination should be of no issue with either side. The Left doesn’t care about them. And the fodder themselves don’t care enough to make their own choices, so reasoning with them is just a waste of time to begin with. Time that could be better spent freeing the slaves that wish to be free, from the Left’s shackles.