Gay Marriage Open Thread

I really don’t have much to say about the DOMA decision.  I think it’s another Roe v. Wade in terms of creating rights that never existed.  The difference, though, is that the Supreme Court waited to make the decision until the tide had turned at the popular support level, with more and more Americans supporting gay marriage.

As for the Prop. 8 decision, I agree with a Facebook friend of mine who wrote:  “SCOTUS has made its ruling on Prop 8 today. No matter which side of the issue one comes down on, it should be frightening to all of us that an Attorney General of ANY STATE can simply choose not to defend ANY LAW and *POOF* the law will be overturned.”  There lies the way to tyranny, when the people no longer have standing on their own behalf.

Lastly, Kennedy has altogether too much power.  I never get the feeling that the guy has any fixed legal or constitutional principles.  At least the guys (and gals) on the Left are Lefties and the guys on the right are Righties (except for Chief Justice Roberts, who I think was blackmailed on ObamaCare).  Kennedy is a “whatever.”  When I was in law school, there was a saying that “the law is what the judge had for breakfast.”  With Kennedy, it’s also what he had for lunch, dinner, and his little midnight snack.

Please chime in here with your feelings on the subject.


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  • jj

    Seems to me I’ve said this before, but I have wondered how the Constitution of the United States of America – everything from the preservation of the Second Amendment to the overturning of a popular vote of several millions of people – ends up in the hands and at the mercy of Anthony Goddam Kennedy – whoever the hell he is.  We apparently have no need to look to the heavens to try to find God, he’s sitting in a moth-eaten ball gown, muttering to himself in Washington DC, son of a backroom fixer and wheel-greaser from goddam Sacramento.  (And doesn’t that just figure?)  I have opined on occasion that neutering the FCC and allowing the television networks to turn to offal was Reagan’s single biggest mistake, but Kennedy has to stand right in there at Godawful Disaster Number Two.  (Though I sympathize with Regan, he couldn’t sneak a bona-fide human being past the senate I suppose, so he had to take what was left him.)
    So the country finds itself – and its God-given rights – perched precariously in the hands of a man with no discernible convictions, who evidently believes nothing in and of himself, and will be swayed by whoever he hears last – or (as Scalia points out in his dissent, a touch less plainly than I point it out) whoever yells loudest.
    And yes, your attorney general in California is a goddamned fool.  At best.

  • Caped Crusader

    If you don’t hear from me in the future, let me explain why. I am a not too erudite, and currently not too up to date, lover of the outer banks of theoretical physics. There are currently thought to be at least 11 dimensions of alternate universes, composed of vibrating strings, and it may be possible to pass from one to the other in the future. I believe this already exists to a small degree and this would explain the never solved disappearance of some people. In short, this I believe may have happened to me and jj (and some of you others), and we may have been put off at the wrong stop which is a topsy-turvy reality universe compared to what we have always been accustomed to in the past.
    One reason I believe this is for the 50th reunion of my university a few years ago a classmate put up a website where all could post bios and pictures. I got to remembering what the world was like in 1956 and the things that have transpired since that come to pass, which had you told a classmate in 1956 they would see in their lifetime would have, in all probability, got you a cell in an insane asylum (yes they realiy existed then). Where the hell is Joe McCarthy when we really need him? jj if we ever come back to OUR stop please yell out loud for me to get off also.

  • lee

    Wow! I just read your Mr. Conservative piece on Roberts. I had always suspected that the White House Thugs had somehow blackmailed him into going the way he did, but I didn’t know enough about him to suspect that it might have to do with his children.

    Even the most principled person will cave when a gun is held to the head of their child. (Not that I blame them.) And I wouldn’t put it past the WHT (especially VJ) to do such a thing. Not a literal “gun” but something that would/could destroy them.


    I am not sure about this Irish adoption story. I have known of adopted people whose mothers were Irish. None of them were adopted in Ireland–the adoptions took place in other countries, including the US, Portugal, and some South American countries. I know laws got very strict after Irish independence (because before then, especially during the famine years, children were just taken from parents and given in adoption to couples.) But then the adoptees I know are MUCH older than these children, and laws change. But…

    A quick perusal of the internet tells me that an American couple CAN adopt an Irish child and bring the child to the United States. It’s rare. (As of 2008, there had been 3 in 2004 and 1 in 2007.) The sticking point (aside from the fact that few children are given up for adoption) is that the prospective parent(s) must reside for one year in Ireland. I don’t think BOTH must. But this is not definitive.

    And there are blondes in South America… There have been a not-insignificant number of immigrants to Uruguay, Argentina, etc., from Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands… (Maybe the secret is that the kids’ grandparents were Nazi refugees in Uruguay…)

    But I think you definitely have some thing. Mike Lee mentioned something, but he thought it had to do with holding Roberts’s “legacy” over his head. I never bought that. It had to be something more–he is principled, and he’d never sell out his principles because of some imagined “legacy.”

    Heck, I supsected Petraus was being blackmailed, too.

    There is sooooooo much about this administration that is SCARY beyound belief. God help us!

  • Doug1943

    The Supreme Court will follow popular opinion, and even anticipate it a bit, and/or do what the elite believe is necessary for the overall good of the American state. (This is why they outlawed racial segregation in schools when they did, permitted pornography when they did, overturned the Smith Act when they did, and so on.) They basically reflect the culture, or, more precisely the culture of the educated elite. In fact, it can’t really be any other way for long.
    Gay marriage is just an oddity. The real issue is the preservation of the long-term two-sex family (whether bound in formal marriage or not) where there are children. How to promote this is where we should be putting our energy.

  • Ymarsakar

    Regardless, those who have underestimated the Leftist Alliance for Humanity’s Perfect Progress, do so at Humanity’s peril.
    The power of the Left is much more than most normal people can imagine. They have forgotten to exercise their imaginations, something cavemen did not forget.
    Their web of deceit reaches across the world.

  • vinny

    I want medicaid to pay for my prenatal care. I know that women are entitled to this, but hey lets not discriminate based on gender. I can get a big belly and keep it around for years. The feds better pay for monthly ultrasounds, blood tests, and exams. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. 

  • vinny

    Reality has nothing to do with the laws.

  • 11B40

    What difference, at this point, does it make ???

  • Charles Martel

    This is just farce to me. Farce with serious consequences, but farce nonetheless.
    Homosexual “marriage” will be even more empty of content and meaning than most current secular marriages. There will be no stampede by homosexual couples to enter the institution because most of them will see it for the empty shell that it is.
    Those of us who retain private thoughts, ones that even the IRS and NSA can’t discern, will never accept the equality of homosexual sex to heterosexual sex, and will turn away in mirth when we are presented with a husband-and-husband or wife-and-wife duo. When you live outside of Fantasyland, you have to remember that its inhabitants earnestly believe in their. . . fantasies.
    Doug1943 makes an astute observation–the Supremes often rush to get out from behind to run to the fore and bravely lead an unenlightened people into the light. Next stop: Polygamy and incest. There simply remain no coherent progressive arguments against either. Given the general “What the hell, I’ll support your perversion if you support mine” mindset of our low-info fellow citizens, I say 10 years for polygamy to get the Supreme nod and 20 for brother-on-sister/daddy-on-daughter weddings to get the OK.


    Marriage rate is at a 100 year low. Single parenting at a historic high. We’ve gone from designer jeans to “genes that desire”.
    My passport is always current, but it can’t take me to the 1950’s and I feel stuck in transit in some strange Third World airport called the 21st Century.

  • Danny Lemieux

    Caped Crusader, thank you for the best explanation yet for where I find myself today.
    Hammer, methinks thou optimism is a wee bit exaggerated. The polygamists will begin their march to claim their “civil rights” tomorrow, probably led by the Islamists the share Obama’s bed.

  • Charles Martel

    I’m kind of creeped out by Caped Crusader’s admission that he is actively seeking a vibrating string that can twang him into an alternate universe.
    Just his luck it would be the one where the mass media had actually vetted Obama and Hillary is now president.

  • Caped Crusader

    Martel #12
    I  am not seeking a vibrating string, but since this did happen to me, I want to be alert so that if my regular stop comes up again I will be alert and jump off to the REAL universe. A Hillary universe would be just as chaotic.

  • Spartacus

    We are adrift.  Not because we weighed anchor but, in contemptuous rebellion, dismissed the very need for an anchor, and cast the anchor chain off the windlass and into the sea.  Now we drift with every whim of tide, current, and wind, smashing into various rocks in our path, welcoming in the sea through a thousand cracks.  It won’t be long now.

  • Ymarsakar

    People have not yet begun to suffer enough to have a clue. They think that by avoiding conflict with the Left, that their hands will be kept clean for they can avoid war that way. That’s not humans or history works however. The world is not that nice

  • Oldflyer

    They said that if I voted for Mitt Romney things would get much worse….
    You read about failing civilizations of the past and you wonder, well why didn’t they just…
    Ymarsakar is correct.   There is precedent. People who are used to being free, used to living in a free society, used to respecting their institutions are just too polite to take to the streets; or maybe they are just too comfortable with too much at stake personally, and think that they can hold on while everything else goes to hell.  They may know intellectually  that is a fatal attitude; but it is all just too big for one person to stand against.   And  the powers behind the status quo are vigilant.  If they try to band  together,  they become outliers and the instruments of power, the IRS or worse, will identify them.   They know that well meaning people, or maybe not so well meaning people with a lot at stake, will come.  The scenario has played out throughout the history of civilizations as they become corrupt and lose their focus..  And that is how free societies degenerate into despotic ones.
    We thought we were immune.  Now we are not so sure.

  • Eidolon

    With the reelection of Obama, my anger sort of burned itself out. I now feel sad for this nation.

    Before, I saw this country as my home, a place that I really loved. But with that event, I was reminded — I am a Christian, and nowhere on this Earth is a home for me. Our home is not in this world.

    I still love America, but I see her now like a relative who always makes bad decisions and damages herself. There’s not much to be done. You can tell her that what she’s doing is bad for her, but she won’t listen. At best you’ll keep her from one bad idea, but she’ll just take up another one. She’ll probably never quit drinking or doing drugs. She’ll decline and there’s nothing you can do about it. You sigh and you wish she would take care of herself, but you know she won’t. She only listens to her awful decadent friends, not to you who really care for her and want what’s best.

    America will decline, and be like England is today in probably 50 or 60 years. My hope is that it will take much longer than my lifetime to reach that point, but I doubt it. I no longer believe that democracies can last; they drift left until they crash onto the rocks of reality, and then they sink. Of course, there’s no better governmental arrangement we know of. It shouldn’t really surprise us that humans are unable to come up with a governmental system that can’t be destroyed by other humans.

    What shocks me is that we have reached a point where we think we can alter physical reality by believing really hard. A man is really a woman if he feels like he is. Two men can be married if they say they are, and it’s the same as a real marriage because they say it is. If you deny these things, if you assert that reality is in fact real, that saying it’s different doesn’t change it, then you’re filled with hatred. I feel sorry for those who are taught this nonsense. Their lives will be filled with the miserable and (for them) bewildering truth that reality is what it is whether you want it to be or not.

  • Danny Lemieux

    The problem is, as many have pointed out, not Obama but a people and society so degraded that they perceive leadership qualities in people such as Obama, Pelosi, Clinton, Warren, Markey, Weiner….
    We could stand up and shout our dismay at our loudest but the sad reality is that most of our fellow citizens don’t /won’t “get it”. We are like King Knut standing against the tide. 
    Ymarsaker is absolutely right: nothing, nothing is going to happen until peoples’ own oxen get gored. Maybe that moment will be next year’s Obamacare landing or when fuel prices skyrocket and we descend into even worse economic straights. Maybe it will be national tragedy, the inevitable consequence of the people having rendered this former world power into the world’s doormat and object of global derision.
    By then, it really may be too late. But we should be ready, in any case.

  • Ymarsakar
    Contrary to a certain perception, I don’t just do prophecies. Those are what I write after I’m done thinking about an issue.
    So people might be interested to hear why I think civil war is inevitable and why it would be better to have it sooner than later in that post of mine. At the bottom, that is.
    There is a specific reason why I don’t agree with my fellow American patriots that staying the course, believing in politics, and using war only as a Last Resort, is going to be strategically viable.

  • Charles Martel

    I’m pretty much in the space that Eidolon now occupies. I’ve gone from optimism to a grim and hard-to-maintain hope that we might turn around at the last minute. There’s still enough resiliency in our federalism that some parts of the country may be able to ride out the storm coming our way.
    But my greatest concern lies outside this country. We are an isolated military power that has always depended on our navy to project our might. Obama and his lackeys are busy dismantling that power even as China, Russia, and Iran rise to physically challenge American power. The lack of a hegemon that can keep the bad guys off balance and apply force when necessary creates a vacuum and invites conflict. Our hapless Smartest President Evuh is now mindlessly leading us toward a needless confrontation with an old enemy, Russia, a nation headed by a vengeful, egomaniacal KGB prick. (It’s interesting that our egomaniacal boy wonder comes off as a rank amateur next to the Russian’s boy wonder.)
    I have not been this worried about a world war since Priapist Jack took us to the brink with the Soviets in 1962. At least JFK had some intelligent people around him. The thought of Valerie Jarrett or John Kerry advising Obama on how to deal with a Russian or Chinese nuclear threat makes me want to start permanently dressing in brown pants.


    T.S.adie Elliot: The world will end not with a bang but with a “wimp”.

  • Danny Lemieux

    Dang, Hammer! I had to look up “Eidolon”. Good word.
    What I find interesting as I connect the dots, is that so many of Obama’s international moves thus far do support the idea that he is a closet Sunni Muslim working to promote the interests of a Sunni Islamic Caliphate at the expense of the U.S. Plus, there is the outright hostility to Christianity expressed by his administration. Then there is his cozying up to the Taliban, the Muslim Brotherhood and other non-Shia terrorist organizations. Plus there are his verbal slip-ups: 
    We have Turkish friends who just laugh when we question that he is anything but a Muslim – “Of course, he’s Muslim”, they say – “He is Muslim because his father was Muslim”. 
    Although I am not quite ready to say outright that he is a “Muslim”, I do believe deeply that we are the target of an elaborate campaign of Taqqiuyeh (deliberate deception and dissimulation) with respect to his foreign policy goals.

  • Charles Martel

    Danny, I don’t think Boy Wonder is a Muslim in the sense that he believes Allah exists and that he is Allah’s slave. I think Obama is his own god, but he realizes the advantage of getting help from other deities, especially ones with vindictive temperaments. He certainly has much in common with Islam: a disdain for civil society and the rule of law, a hatred of Jews and America, and a feeling of bonhomie with the other punks of the world who pillage and plunder simply because they can—or should I say, because Allah wills it.
    Does he practice taqiyyah? Constantly and consummately. Is he consciously advancing the Caliphate. You betcha.


    You’re not elevating my mood fellas. OBL is dead and we’ve elected his successor.

  • Ymarsakar

    I have hope. But “hope” doesn’t mean what most people meant in 2004 or 2008. That’s not the hope I was talking about.
    I envision that when Islam conquers Europe and gains access to their nukes. Some of it will be transfered to Islamic Jihad squads, much as Obama transfered anti air manpoads to AQ in Libya/Syria/Afghanistan.
    While we’re having our little “fight” with the Left here in the uS, they will take that opportunity to destroy both of our allied factions. Even if the Left wins. Even if the left loses. Even if we are stale mated.
    Islam took out the Roman Empire (East) and Persia that way.  Islam started in Saudi Arabia, in just one town. How come it rose to occupy the space of two of the world’s superpowers back then? Milk, kindness, multicultural diversity? Naw.
    Even if Americans fight off the Left… they are already in check mate strategically.
    That’s why I said civil war was inevitable. And that’s why I thought people didn’t have time for any of this “political solutions” they were talking about using to work. I didn’t think it would work. The passion of the Tea Party members is to honored and respected, and I gave them the chance they wished in the time they wished for it. But we all know what came of that.

  • Ymarsakar

    The only things needed to win a war are
    1. tactics
    2. soldiers
    3. hate and love and fire in the heart
    4. money
    5. strategy
    6. leadership
    7. cadre and overall training
    I think I got most of the essentials. Although most of that can be summed up as “money is the sinews of warfare”, which is a bit simplistic but it works for the casual reader.
    What many people are feeling now… I felt much of it in 2006 and 2008. I had spend most of my time learning about Leftist propaganda through the Iraq war in 2006 and seeing what worked vs what didn’t work. Not government policies that were dumb beyond belief that nobody could figure out. But actual policies in Iraq, backed by actual power and economic policies that were intended to work. I saw what the results were of an honest attempt. And I knew when I looked back at America…. that we were in trouble, that the things I believed was true about American politics and democracy… were nothing but glass thrones upon pillars of sand. The true nature of the Left had revealed itself to me in my research, spurred on by my growing resistance to Leftist propaganda in 2002 and 2004 and 2006.
    All that people feel now about despair, denial, anger, rage, injustice, unfairness, powerlessness, I felt many many years ago. Such was the greatness of the Left’s power that I despaired that any normal fair “fighting” could ever defeat it. When Obama seized the throne in 2008, I saw the future of Iraq and it was a shattered mess of injustice and prejudice. They were not going to allow the Iraqis to be free. They could not, and maintain control over their slave ghettoes back home. And without the COIN knowledge gained in Iraq, we could not free our people back home. We would lack the economic and military power to resist.
    So I thought really hard about how to counter that. What was the one thing that defeated the Left’s poisonous use of the US Constitution? What was the one thing that would defeat a cheater and Maker of Rules in a game? What were the constant powers of this universe that no man could over turn? The answers became clear soon enough.