The core issue between Islam and the West is control over women

I have written often at this blog about the wise words a friend of mine told me more than a decade ago.  I can no longer remember his precise words, but I can summarize them:  Islam’s problem with the West, he said, boils down to sex.  Muslim men are terrified that accepting Western ways means losing the stranglehold they have over women.  A religious and political leader in Iran confirms just how right my friend was:

Ahmad Khatami, a senior Iranian cleric and a member of the Assembly of Experts that chooses the next Supreme Leader has warned Iranians not to fall into the trap of negotiating resolution of the nuclear issue with the United States. “If this issue is resolved, the [US] will raise the issue of human rights,” he said, explaining, “Today their problem is the nuclear issue, and when this issue is resolved, they will raise the issue of human rights and say whatsoever rights men have, women should have them, too.”

Read more here.

It makes sense, actually. Humans have needs (food, water, shelter, etc.), and humans have drives (sex, power, etc.). Once the needs are fulfilled, sex is undoubtedly the strongest drive. Western society constrains men’s sex drive; Islamic society constrains the women in service to men’s sex drive.

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  • Ymarsakar

    Western society “used” to constrain them. No more. Until you get “back” Western society by re conquering it from the invaders, not much will change.
    Islamic society has a clear and defined role for women. They are not to deviate from it. The thing is, the Left also has the same roles they enslave women into. For the Left, it is getting money from them via selling their bodies and sexual images for cash. For Islam, it is a way to control the male jihadi warriors and to monopolize a resource, women, for the upper class (thereby motivating the lower class to jihad).

  • Charles Martel

    To western minds, there is an inordinate amount of honor attached to the vulva by Muslims, especially Arabs. A entire family can be shamed and dishonored by a female relative’s misuse of her sexual organ, even if it is forced upon her by rape.
    Yet, in a peculiar way, the West has created a mirror image of Islam’s fixation on and obsession with the vulva. In our case, it is almost dishonorable for a woman not to be promiscuous or sexually wanton. More eyebrows are raised west of the Bosporus over a chaste or celibate woman than over bed-hopping skanks like Miley Cyrus or Lena Dunham.
    Both views of women are sick. It’s ironic that such supposedly polar opposite ways of despising and denigrating women have come together in a vile alliance.

  • Robert Arvanitis

    Book, an alternate perspective.
    There is a very stable social structure we can call the “vertical Ponzi scheme.”  Each layer in society has more than all those below. With right balance, we end up with enough people something to lose, hence they are devoted to current state of affairs.
    In feudalism, the king ruled.  The dukes were nearly as well situated.  The barons were doing well.  the knight, each with a castle, collected from the peasantry.
    In Islam, even the most humble slave of Allah can at least lord it over the women.  So it’s not about women just because of gender, but they are the “peasants of convenience” in this version.
    Oh, and in America, the left has sought to cobble together various “needs” groups with similar intent.  Yet again, everyone is hurt long run, but feels they have more to lose if the system itself goes away; welfare etc.

  • BurkeanMama

    I thought everyone already knew this.

  • 11B40

    Sorry, but I think your argument is a bit too pointed. For a decade or so now, I have viewed Islam as the globalization of 7th Century Arab tribal culture.  Tribal cultures often view women somewhere along the lines of assets or, more coarsely, part of their pastoral herds. The asset part, I believe, is supported by the number of marriages to close relatives so that the family/clan/tribe maintains some amount of benefits, breeding stock wise, and the number of parentally directed marriages beginning at what we in the West consider very inappropriate ages.
    Today, many see “tribal” cultures in somewhat Edenic or mythological terms. They are not and were not. Many tribal cultures have severe enforcement mechanisms for their morés that people today fail to see or comprehend. While sex is certainly a part of the evaluation, economics is also a potent shaper of these proclivities in that “Who benefits???” kind of way.
    Lastly, and somewhat in alignment with your thinking, one of the things that I have thought for a while now about the Arab/Muslin “honor-killing” proclivity is that there is a sexual lust component involved in many cases but that, in the present era of Islam obfuscation, little science will be willing to address.

  • Call me Lennie

    The Arab tribes and clans of  7th century Arabia lived as harsh and as marginal an existense as any group on earth.  Moreover as these groups migrated from one patch of pastureland to another and from one well to another, they were extraordinarily vulnerable to being wiped out by other groups who merely had to poach on a pastureland or poison a well to cause an adversary tribe to die out from hunger or thirst
    The only way a tribe could protect itself is through its honor — ie, its reputation of extreme fierceness coupled with a reputation of upright behaviour, which had to be defended and re-inforced at all times.  If a tribe were to be completetly dishonored it would soon find itself wiped off the face of the earth, as other tribes would  suddenly be unconstrained in stealing pastureland or water from wells.  And so it was imperative that any possible challenge to a tribe’s honor had to be answered immediately with utmost violence
    And for reasons which I don’t fully understand, one of the fastest ways to dishonor another tribe was to violate or accuse another tribe’s females of being spoiled or impure.  This must tie in to primitive human fixations of purity of a group’s ancestry.  And if even one female of a group was found to be impure, then the entire group was spoiled, in a sense.  And if this image wasn’t immediately countered in the most brutal way, by destroying the spoiled female, then there will be open season on the dishonored tribe and it will also be destroyed.
    And so, to avoid this awful situation, strict rules were placed on females, so that they could never be in a situation where they could be accused of “spoilation”  So, in a sense, women in these cultures were more like hostages in a never-ending inter-tribal war — as tribal adversaries were constantly attempting to use the sexual dishonor club against each other. 
    And then in the 7th Century, along comes Muhammad to inpress the fundamental sexual premises if this society into a religion — which basically froze these notions for all time

  • Robert Arvanitis

    Lennie: Interesting proposition. Wonder if the Native Americans are sufficiently similar to Arab nomads for comparison.
    While Native Americans valued reputation for fierceness, do not recall any sexual mores involved.  Indeed, seems that capture of females was a form of keeping score.  Even better, exogamy had positive effects on genetic diversity and hybrid vigor, the absence of which militates against purity and coursin-marriage.

  • Simplemind

    “Western society constrains men’s sex drive;”
    Not so much. I know you like romance novels but this ain’t Victorian England anymore. 
    Men in the West can do whatever they like with a consenting partner as long as they don’t marry.  Western women deliver sex on demand – no marriage required – so consent really isn’t a problem if you are willing to put out a minimal amount of effort. 
    You are absolutely correct that Islam controls women. 
    You are also correct, that in the West, Women are free to control themselves. Sadly, so many women in the West lack self-control. 
    Western female self control issues do not, however, validate Islam. It is merely a sign that indeed women are human, just like men.   The current western climate of libertinism will not last, as it is unsustainable for womankind; especially when the welfare state fails them.
    Things that can not continue, won’t.

  • 11B40

    Greetings: especially “Robert Arvanitis” @ #7
    Several years ago, I read “Comanches: The History of a People” by T.R. Fehrenbach.  On my first reading, I was struck by the number of similarities between the Comanches and our Muslim brothers and sister though there were differences, as you pointed out, in terms of sexual mores.  Re-readings have only re-affirmed my re-action.
    As to hybrid vigor, I seem to remember that the Comanches had relatively low birth rates, not uncommon with nomadic peoples, and that captives/slaves helped round out the demographics becoming members of the tribes at some point or other.
    Lastly, and obviously, I consider that book to be a very worthwhile read.

  • Ymarsakar

    <B>You are also correct, that in the West, Women are free to control themselves. Sadly, so many women in the West lack self-control. </b>
    That’s the Leftist propaganda they’d like you to believe of course. It is not true.

  • Ymarsakar

    I’ve seen you write a lot about the enemies outside the gates, Islamic cultures and nations.
    Why then do you ignore the Leftists inside America’s gates, in the US military and civilian spheres of authority? Are they less interesting than Native American tribes and Arab tribes?

  • 11B40

    Greetings, Ymarsakar: (@ #11)
    Well, it’s certainly rewarding knowing that my somewhat literate comments are being given a once-over. But, I don’t think that I agree very much with your assessment.
    I’ve been commenting here since 2 double-ought 8 and I think that my range of interests has been somewhat broader than you indicate.  I try to limit my writings to things that I know about either from education or experience so as not to waste either my own time or that of any potential perusers, 
    The US military would be a case in point.  Based on my own experiences, I’m very much against the miracle of the “all-volunteer” military.  I see what’s been going on since 1973 or so as a hollowing out process, starting with the suspension of the draft for males, the inclusion of some 15% females, another 15% requiring criminal justice waivers, and most recently President Obama’s Nihil Obstat for homosexuality.
    I don’t know if there’s a way to search the Bookroom comments, but if you do, I think that you’ll find that my comments cover a fair range of current topics, even to the point of discussing my own kitchenphobia.

  • Ymarsakar

    So are you able to say the same about the Left, that you say of Islam then? Specifically, that Islamic terrorists cannot be defeated without first addressing the existence and nature of Islam.
    I’m discussing 2 points of interest with you: the Left and Islamic tribes. I am not discussing your “broad range of topics”, so you don’t have to include them here.