Noisy hotel open thread

It’s a nice hotel, but the live band and the vocal drunks on the plaza six stories below definitely detract from the ambiance. I will probably be incommunicado Saturday, so please open thread away.

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  1. suek says

    This is a link to a blog (actually, for some reason, it’s a link to a comment on a blog) written by vladimir, who is apparently an oil company employee.  Some interesting discussion – since there’s (as usual) lots of stuff about oil rigs and wells that I don’t know.  No special reason for the link other than it makes for some interesting reading.  You know – just in case you’re bored or something.  Unless of course, you’re too intelligent to get bored.

  2. BrianE says

    The number of foreign-born people residing in the United States (an estimated 37 to 39 million) is at the highest level in our history and, as a portion of the U.S. population, has reached a percentage (12.4%) not seen since the early 20th century.1 The actual number of unauthorized aliens in the United States is unknown. Of the foreign-born residents in the United States, approximately one-third are to be estimated unauthorized aliens residents (often characterized as illegal aliens), one-third are estimated to be legal permanent residents (LPRs), and one-third are estimated to be naturalized U.S. citizens.2

    This CRS study puts the total of unauthorized (illegal) aliens at about 12 million, 59% of whom are from Mexico, 10% from the Orient and the rest from Central and South America.
    44% of the 12 million have entered the country since 2000, according to the report.
    I happened to catch John Gibson on the radio yesterday claiming the number was 20 million, of which he claimed 15 million were in the workforce.
    I wonder why the disparity? The report above alludes to two sources, Dept. of Homeland Security, and Pew Hispanic Research Center.
    According to another CRS report, the number of illegals entering the country has fallen in half during 2005-2008 from previous comparable time periods. This could be due to a couple of factors– increased security and falling labor demand. It’s probably a combination of the two. DHS puts that number at .9 million illegals in that time period.
    If you remember the 2006 debate, illegal immigration apologists like John McCain said they “got” it– we wanted the borders secured before any talk of a “path to citizenship for those in the country illegally”.
    So, how’s that worked out? Of the 2000 mile border, it was decided by Congress to build around 800 miles of fence in the most vulnerable areas. Bush’s DHS decided to concentrate on a ‘virtual’ high-tech fence instead of a old-fashioned ‘real’ fence, but after spending $600 million on the project essentially abandoned the idea, according to reports I’ve read.
    It appears we’ve constructed 35 miles of the 800 miles promised since 2006. Why should we be surprised. Congress originally approved a 14 mile fence near San Diego in 1996. As of 2004, only 9 miles of the fence had been built.


  3. suek says

    My.  The Arizona legislature is _hot_!!!  They seem to be taking on _everything_!

    I’m in favor of a 10 mile wide strip along the entire border to be fenced and filled with various unfriendly wild animals from places like Africa that also need resevoirs to maintain their populations.  Let the illegals deal with _them_!   No racism possible.  Many that need to be preserved are unbigotted consumers…they’ll eat anybody.
    The other option is to get the military down there and invade Mexico.  Take about a 10 mile strip of no man’s land.  You can bet Mexico would get their army up there to defend _their_ border!

  4. says

    All the Left wants is another slave class that they can beat down and rape, just like Ted Kennedy’s clan.
    They’re going to grow things to make sure they live high and mighty while everybody else is locked in miserable conditions serving the aristocrats.
    This was hard to stop in the days where peasants didn’t have any arms able to penetrate plate mail. These days it is different. Even more so for a nation that prides itself upon its internal and foreign wars.

  5. JKB says

    So a guy gets tired of being harassed by politicians politicking in England so he goes Tea Party.
    Posts a sign “Throw the Lot Out”, in red and blue letters on a white background.  90 minutes later, the cops arrive telling him it’s racist and he must change it.  Sound familiar?  Of course the guy has a story about a brick being thrown through his window for which the police’s response was to give him a report number but not come around.
    Pensioner’s red, white, and blue election protest poster is branded ‘racist’ by police | Mail Online

  6. SADIE says

    Yes, a spill is bad. Yes, there are problems. Yes, the left will use this accident to promote their agenda.
    What’s missing from the list of Yes – 11 widows, family members, friends. Not a mention of a name,  a memorial service for those missing and presumed dead in the Gulf of Mexico of any elected official.

  7. suek says

    Brian…I don’t have sound on my computer (yes…it’s _really_ old!) (oh my gosh…just did a mental check – its 12 years old, in fact!  Wow – does time fly!)
    Was there any indication that sabotage was being considered?

  8. JKB says

    This should really light up next week.  Can San Francisco put AZ on double secret boycott?
    Sheriff Joe Arpaio is expected to announce for governor.  Pretty much the leading candidate if he does since he had won 4 elections by double digit margins in the county containing 2/3 of Arizona’s population.
    Sources say Arpaio will announce run for governor Monday – Phoenix Arizona news, breaking news, local news, weather radar, traffic from ABC15 News |

  9. BrianE says

    No, the caller said it was not sabotage. According to him it has a gas bubble that overwhelmed the safety mechanisms, which were being properly handled (as far as he knew). Once the gas blew out the ‘safety valve’ it spread over the rig and though the equipment around the well is intrinsically safe, the gas spread to some part of the rig and a spark triggered the subsequent explosion. Natural gas is heavier than air and settled on the rig.
    The caller said that deep wells like this one (5000 feet) deal with extreme pressures– 35,000 psi or so.
    During the interview, Levin said his staff confirmed that the caller was who he said he was.

  10. says

    The Left actively pollutes the Gulf of Mexico in order to allocate power to themselves in the name of environmental cleansing.
    It doesn’t matter which specific incident is their fault. The evidence no longer matters any more.

  11. BrianE says

    From the link I provided above:

    Although most policy makers have assumed that tighter border enforcement would reduce unauthorized migration, some researchers observe that the strengthening of the immigration enforcement provisions, most notably by the enactment of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA), may have inadvertently increased the population of unauthorized resident aliens.38 This perspective argues that IIRIRA’s increased penalties for illegal entry, coupled with increased resources for border enforcement particularly after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, stymied what had been a rather fluid movement of migratory workers along the southern border; this in turn raised the stakes in crossing the border illegally and created an incentive for those who succeed in entering the United States to stay.39
    Also from the report:
    In addition to estimating the number of individuals who were unauthorized aliens, Passel and Cohn also calculated estimates of the number of households with unauthorized aliens. They reported that the number of persons living in families in which the head of the household or the spouse was an unauthorized alien was an estimated 16.6 million in 2008. They also reported that  there were an estimated 1.5 million unauthorized children and an estimated 4.0 million citizen children who were living in families in which the head of the family or a spouse was unauthorized in 2008.
    So the 12 million figure are adults (they estimate that 5 million of this figure are female), and the rest of the 16.6 million are children, of which 4 million are citizens by virtue of being born here.
    What is not clear from the report is the percentage of illegals (using the 12 million adult figure) that have crossed the border illegally, versus the number that have overstayed a visa. This would impact the success of a border fence or increased border security.
    As to employer sanctions, I worked for a company that dealt with the orchard industry in 1988. During that time INS raids were common. One of the plant managers told me they would round up the illegals (which all had documentation), but they would be back in a short period of time with new documentation, and the dance would start over again.
    It is easy to be critical of the manager, since he knew the workers were illegal, but he was covered since they had properly forged documents. He needed workers, and no, Americans were not willing to do those jobs.
    The orchard industry is heavily dependent on migrant workers (they follow the harvests from the south to the north). It would be impossible for an American to make a living given the conditions and the transient nature of the work.
    We do need a substantial guest worker program for these types of jobs.

  12. BrianE says

    Re link at #12.
    California, which leads the nation in illegal immigrants, necessarily has to lead the denunciation of Arizona, lest its saner citizens come to the conclusion that what is happening in Arizona should also happen in California– the enforcement of existing law.

  13. suek says

    I still remember when the Bracero program was a big political issue, and was killed by the Unions.  It too was rife with problems – primarily treating the workers like slaves or close to it (“I owe my soul to the Company Store” type of arrangement).  In fact, in our small town, we have a green house facility (and it’s for sale, if anyone is interested! Actually…I just learned the other day that Jackson Perkins has gone into bankruptcy, and _their_ facility, with greenhouses and labs is bank owned.  I’d print money for it in the basement, but I don’t have a basement!) that I used to call the “Pot Factory” – their workers spoke no English, and weren’t permitted off the facility.  It was sort of well known, but apparently there was no reason for the police to legally do anything about it.  Then they had a fire…that was the opportunity the local law enforcers had been waiting for, and the owner was eventually prosecuted and jailed for “involuntary servitude”.
    It seems to me that there are two main problems (probably more, but to start with) – available employment, and marijuana.  We can probably solve the employment problem – in fact, the economic downturn may eliminate it – but the majijuana problem?  It seems to me that legalizing pot and encouraging US growers might be the answer to that (as much as I dislike that solution) but is it worth it?  If you read the comments on that Cochise County article, there is one that lists a few news articles documenting the marijuana seized just within the last few days…and the quantities are pretty shocking – to me, at least.  If smoking pot is that wide spread, we really do need to think about legalizing it – even if it’s _just_ to stop the drug traffickers.  The pot smoking is bad (imo) but the danger of the traffickers that bring it in is even more so.

  14. says

    <B>California, which leads the nation in illegal immigrants, necessarily has to lead the denunciation of Arizona, lest its saner citizens come to the conclusion that what is happening in Arizona should also happen in California– the enforcement of existing law.</b>
    Just as Iran has to send IEDs to Iraq and crack down on Iranian protesters or else Iranians might start thinking democracy would work for them too.

  15. Zhombre says

    It’s time to boycott Mexico, and to boycott any organization that boycotts Arizona.  And this week I will be sending a back issue of Arizona Highways to Mayor Gavin Newsom in San Fran.

  16. Zhombre says

    If you go to you can sign an on-line petition in support of the governor and the state  immigration reform.  Pls do so.  In advance, I thank you.

  17. SADIE says

    Oops…forget to mention:

    1. Fort Huachuca. My former husband was stationed there during the Korean War. The base was used for testing things that go ‘boom’. Let’s hope that any illegals venturing near the Fort will be blown back to Mexico in short order.
    2. Red Light/Green Light Israeli style. I read through the comments and noted one from an Israeli that confirms that the red light is longer from arab neighborhoods into Israeli ones. I have no personal knowledge since I did not drive into them [on purpose].  My best guess is that there are cameras taking photos and security watching who/what is driving. If you recall there were several ‘deadly’ incidents that arab operators of equipment working in Israel, used them to plow into pedestrians at bus stops. It seems like it’s another layer of security – always a good thing. My rule for driving in Israel were the road signs – if they were in 3 languages [Hebrew, Arabic, English] good, if they were only in Arabic, I made a wrong turn.
    It’s time for a brief Sadie story on Fort Huachuca.

    As I mentioned, the former, was stationed there. I have no idea how many Jews were on base, but more importantly, I have to statistically believe there had to be more Catholics. Imagine his surprise that he was appointed to be the Chaplain’s assistant. Since he knew nothing of communions, rituals and such he pretty much had spare time on the weekends. The poor Chaplin was at a loss at to how or why they sent the Jewish guy to him and no matter how many times the Chaplain requested a Catholic to help assist, the Army couldn’t find any. Mr. Sadie, made good use of his weekends and spent them in Las Vegas supplementing his Army salary playing blackjack and sending the money home to be banked.

  18. suek says

    >>I read through the comments and noted one from an Israeli that confirms that the red light is longer from arab neighborhoods into Israeli ones.>>
    Not knowing the area, it’s hard to guess.  We have a fairly main intersection here locally that is a three way light.  It’s a T intersection.  The main traffic flow is East to West.  That light has a left hand turn signal and a through light.  They are green/red simultaneously.  Coming from the West, there is a through signal only.  From the South, there is a Left turn only, with a Right on Red permitted.  The complete cycle is 5 minutes, with the longest cycle being the East to West one(I’d guess about 3 minutes for that one, 2 minutes for the other two combined).  There’s a point about a mile from the light (driving W to E) where I know that if traffic is back that far, it’s 20 minutes to the signal.  There’s also a street at that point, and you can take that…it curves and returns to the road that comes from the South, also about a mile from the signal.  However, because the road from the South has a Right on Red, traffic moves faster – I can go around and beat the traffic that was at least halfway to the light (visually marked by whatever big truck is about that point).  It’s a game – beats sitting and waiting.  However, there’s no racial preference involved – it’s just the traffic pattern.  I read that comment and wondered about how the traffic flowed – was the traffic from the arab areas from small streets, and the traffic from the jewish areas more heavily traveled??? that sort of thing.
    And…would you really want people who might bomb things sitting there getting aggravated and checking out the scenery as well as who is going down the jewish street?  You’d also give them the opportunity to signal if someone they wanted to injure was on the faster street.  That doesn’t seem very smart…!

  19. SADIE says

    I have been to Gush Etzion, whose history is an epic tale.  I’ve included a link below. I am really bad at translations. I guess Gush = Junction and Etzion is a contraction of sorts of tree and zion, which refers to Israel.
    I offered up the above, because I had the privilege of visiting there. It is only because I was traveling with some ‘important’ people, we were driven  in a bullet-proof bus. There are all manners of barriers on the road to Gush Etzion and other settlements nearby for all the reasons you read about. No need to detail that most commuters or visitors in/out of the Gush Etzion area were and are ‘target practice’ from the Palestinians. Not everyone rides in a bullet proof vehicle and whoever wrote the piece for the Economist did not make any ‘brownie points’ with me.

  20. BrianE says

    Deja vu all over again!
    Sen. Alexander: Border security must precede path to citizenship for immigrants
    Part of the problem is the lax way INS treats those who overstay their visas. That needs to be fixed as well.
    Personally, I don’t think any illegal immigrant over the age of 18 should have a “path to citizenship”. That doesn’t mean we kick them out. It just means they stay in the shadows unable to receive government benefits.
    If they want to become citizens, they need to go back to their mother country and get at the back of the line of those wanting to immigrate. It seems unfair that those people, those who follow the rules should be penalized by the cheats. It’s just not American.
    As to the young people, they came here with their parents and I don’t think should be judged by the same standards. If they get an education, show they want to be productive Americans, they should be given that right to become citizens.

  21. says

    There shouldn’t be a line in the first place. Since it is dictated by government feat.
    America gets no benefit from immigration when government decides who is or is a productive member of society. Because government standards won’t ever become close to the standards of the frontier.

  22. says

    The Democrats get a benefit from immigration when the government chooses Mexicans for example. Just as Britain got a benefit from sucking in Africans and Muslims as a work force and anti-British counter measure.
    They put everybody that was good in a line. Everybody that would give their party power and crush the British people, a special VIP access.

  23. suek says

    >>If they get an education, show they want to be productive Americans, they should be given that right to become citizens.>>
    I could definitely live with this…but…I’m not terribly confident about the dual citizenship thing.  In other words, if these youngsters are entitled to dual citizenship in Mexico (and I don’t know the facts on this) just as children born in Mexico would be US citizens if both parents were US citizens, then I’d want to see if Mexico had some way to forswear citizenship.  Ditto for other Mexicans who come here to work.  The question is “Are you Mexican or are you a US citizen?”  Take your pick – you can’t have both.  If they don’t want to give up their Mexican citizenship, fine – they can work, but there have to be certain restrictions – and they can’t become citizens without paying some kind of penalty/fine.  For example, if they work here and don’t pay FICA, then they don’t collect SS.  Actually – I’m against SS paid to people out of country for more than XX years…but that’s a different issue.

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