Let’s hope Obama is smarter than his followers about Gaza

Not a conversation in which I was involved (nor was it politic or appropriate to become involved), but I heard someone this morning praising Carter’s execrable editorial (and I’m not going to dignify that with a link) castigating Israel for defending itself.

The liberal praising the article, when asked about the rocket attacks, said “Well, it’s just one town in Israel.  They should leave.  That’s the smart thing to do.  It’s better than killing Palestinian children”  It did not seem to occur to this guy that Israel had already pulled out of Gaza and that he’s essentially advocating an incremental approach to Hamas’ ultimate goal:  namely, driving Jews out of every town on the land and pushing them into the sea.  Nor did it seem to occur to him that, by the same analysis, the Palestinians should just retreat, because that’s better than killing Jewish children.

Living in Marin is an alternative universe, since one is surrounded with ostensibly smart people who have stupid ideas and are completely amoral.

Be Sociable, Share!

Comments

  1. says

    Having listened to a lot of this in the last week, I think you’re making one assumption that’s unwarranted: that these folks really think killing Jewish children in Israel is bad. I think the most charitable assumption is that Jewish children are invisible, while Palestinian children aren’t.

    And there are the (minority, I hope) saying “back in the ovens!”

  2. Danny Lemieux says

    Like I said before, these are the same people who go apoplectic when someone wafts second-hand smoke in their direction. Let’s lob some missiles at their homes.

  3. SADIE says

    Your description of Marin is kind.

    Stupid ideas? Are you implying that there is a thought process that actually lead to the stupid idea concept?

    Sounds like Marin is in a parallel universe with Gaza.

    Puff, puff…can we talk (Danny) I’d be delighted to help lob.

  4. Ymarsakar says

    I think if Israel doesn’t have the political guts to eradicate Gaza that they should go in and take every child of a certain age away from their parents, hide them in a secure location in Israel, and then go back to the negotiating table.

    If you don’t like killing your enemies, then you will have to take them away from their own side. If you aren’t even willing to do that, well, then you’re just going to have to keep killing, signing cease fires, and then returning back to killing. If that’s how you want it to work, I’m sure that can be sustained.

  5. Mike Devx says

    >> “Well, it’s just one town in Israel. They should leave. That’s the smart thing to do. It’s better than killing Palestinian children” >>

    I didn’t think they could surprise me with *anything* they say… but count me among the surprised. Wow.

    If there’s any justice or karma, that person will be stalked, threatened, and harassed from the shadows. In other words, terrorized. And I’d love it if the police responded with, “Well, you’re just one person, living in just one house. You should leave. That’s the smart thing to do. It’s better than you upsetting the community, and taking up our valuable time.”

    “But… but… I’m a citizen! I have rights!”

    “And the Israelis don’t?”

    I am virtually certain that that person also wants to ban all guns, because guns kill people, which is a terrible thing. Of course, criminals will still have guns, but if the criminals are making trouble in your community, well, you should just leave. You know? And the end result: America, the land of Frightened Lemmings, running this way and that way in mad scrambles, looking for a place they can feel safe and happy. At least for a short while, until they have to run again.

  6. says

    “I am virtually certain that that person also wants to ban all guns, because guns kill people, which is a terrible thing. Of course, criminals will still have guns, but if the criminals are making trouble in your community, well, you should just leave.”

    Yes, Mike, you are correct in your surmise.

  7. Ymarsakar says

    That’s the smart thing to do. It’s better than you upsetting the community, and taking up our valuable time.”

    I think what the cops actually say is “just let the thieves take whatever they want. It isn’t worth your life”.

    Of course, criminals will still have guns, but if the criminals are making trouble in your community, well, you should just leave

    The reality is that criminals don’t need guns to kill or terrorize a neighborhood. The tools of violence are just as function regardless of how the principles of violence are used. The Unholy Trinity of Injury, Penetration, and Rotation are the same whether we are talking about bullets fired from firearms, knives used to cut and stab people, or blunt force instruments used to bash in people’s skulls. Or just your bare fists, hands, elbows, knees, and legs.

    You see, the people who think that just because Israel has higher technology that this means Israel isn’t threatened by the Hamas “low tech” rock throwing thugs, cannot conceive of what I have just told you. They cannot conceive that anyone can kill, using anything, even nothing at all. They don’t see Israel as needing to defend themselves, not so much because they don’t believe in self-defense, but because they believe Israel suffers no appreciable threat from Hamas “rockets”. You can tell them all number of things. You can tell them this and that about rockets and Hamas’ intentions. They won’t give a fauk. They will retain the conception that a guy throwing a rock is “less” lethal and thus less dangerous than an Israeli soldier wielding “modern” arms.

    To people like me, that is complete retarded nonsense coming from idiotic sheep.

    “But… but… I’m a citizen! I have rights!”

    Millions of Americans are suffering in this nation because they are ruled over by Democrats that do not give a damn about the rights of citizens, let alone their citizens. LA the land of the rich and the fake liberal= full of gangs. New Orleans, the land of Democrat governors and mayors=disarming the citizens and letting the criminals enjoy the new state of chaos.

    That’s the reality here in AMerica. Just consider what is going on in the rest of the world where the US Constitution and the US military doesn’t even reach.

  8. Ymarsakar says

    Also, I just love “libertarians” telling me that I don’t need a handgun to defend myself. That all I need is a shotgun because if it is good for the uS military clearing houses, then it should be good enough for me. Handguns are used by criminals so I don’t need it for self-defense, and I should be satisfied with a shotgun.

    Who do these people think they are, to decide for me what I need or don’t need for self-defense? Just because they fear guns, just because they don’t want to learn how to use a handgun, somehow now means that I have to sacrifice my own freedom of choice to satisfy their delusions and neuroses?

    This country wasn’t built upon the premise that people should “feel safe”. This country was built upon the premise that people should be safe, and the method by which this is decided is expressly reserved to the people and not given to the federal or state government to abridge (2nd Amendment). That also means my fellow neighbors don’t have the right to restrict my options simply because they don’t give a fauk that a shotgun would blow pieces of the house apart, along with any pets, small children, or fish bowls caught in the immediate vicinity of any trespassers. Even a shotgun shell, a solid shot, would go through multiple walls by punching multiple holes. *Whiny Voice* “The US military uses shotguns to clear houses and so should you”. The US military doesn’t give much of a damn what damage is done to the house in a combat environment. But let’s all forget about that and believe in the “Libertarians”.

    These people annoy me very much. And there are millions of them. I’ve only encountered a few, some of them in real life and some on the net, but I don’t want to see anymore. In fact, the 100% pure ones that want to ban all guns are better in my view. At least they are consistent.

  9. Ymarsakar says

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHCXNt4P8Xg

    Watch that clip of Joe Theisman having his career ended by a football accident. Before you continue reading or otherwise you won’t really understand what I’m talking about.

    Notice the comments about how horrified Lawrence is.

    And I heard from C_Bob, a B5 commenter, that he when he saw the injury on tv when it happened, the sound of the bone break was like a sledgehammer hit to him. People found the sound as horrible as the sight.

    Does anyone ask themselves why they are horrified? Why this produces an automatic gut response?

    The answer to those questions also explain why terrorists go out of their way to be mean and cruel. Socialized human beings are horrified at these incidents because human society would never have progressed had there not been institutional conditioning on this level. The horror is a derivative of empathy. But it also means that when sane people like Israelis go out and have to kill Palestinian children because the Palestinians didn’t give israel any choice, this creates a backlash, not amongst the Palestinians, but amongst the Israelis. They are horrified. But this isn’t a football. This is a war for their survival. And horror on this matter equates to weakness and hesitation. As we have seen only too recently.

    The productive sheep of America cannot and will not try to see things from the views of terrorist. Because that would mean accepting, for themselves, that violence works and that most of their horror against violence isn’t so much due to “enlightened values” as it is due to their effete over-socialized upbringing.

    But that’s not the end of it. Most people believe they need to get angry or they need some strong motivation like protecting their children, in order to truly harm another human being. And that’s true, to an extent, because of how well conditioned socialized human beings are when it comes to not attacking their fellow human beings. People will fight, but fist fights are actually part of human society in that expressions of aggression is part and parcel of male fights for dominance and social position. Wolves will growl, snarl, and even bite each other in displays of dominance. Rarely, however, will they fight to rip out the throats of each other. How is this possible when wolves know exactly how to kill prey? For humans fighting in a bar, you may provide the excuse that they aren’t killing each other because they don’t know how to, but wolves? No, all of this is an expression and product of social conditioning. The shackles put on good little sheep to protect them for their own good.

    Serial killers, terrorists, and people like Samir Kuntar don’t need a reason to kill. They don’t need to be angry and they don’t need an excuse. They just do it because they want to do it. That is the difference. And it is that, nothing else, that makes them dangerous. It is their minds and how it works that make them a danger to us.

    The Left will now come in and tell you that this just means we need the law to protect us and take care of criminals like Kuntar and “Tookie”. That we shouldn’t do anything by ourselves. That the passengers of Flight 93 should have just sat down and waited for the hostage negotiators, the professionals, to take care of things. They will tell us that if we do the same things as Hamas, if we use violence as they do, that we will be as bad as they are.

    Do you see how inexorably dumb that claim is, whether the Left makes it or anyone else? They only want us to do nothing because it is dangerous to the government to teach the sheep how to grow fangs and hunt for food. They know that if we are beholden to them for protection, that they hold all the cards. They can demand and we can only accede or we will lose our lives. But Flight 93 has shown us just how untrue that is. It is not the government that, in the end, protects us from our enemies. They are only the first line of defense. The last line of defense has always been us. Unfortunately, the recent Golden Age of decadence and prosperity has defanged all too many of us. We have lost our traditions and our knowledge of just how we act and why we act the way we do. We no longer know ourselves, and when that is the case, how can we know our enemies?

    In a fight outside the rules of society and the law, your most devastating weakness is not your lack of training, not your lack of armaments, not your lack of forewarning, and not the fact that your enemy has more experience in using violence on people than you do. No, in the end, what matters is that he wants to use violence on you and you don’t want to hurt him because you hesitate out of that ingrained horror that society has drummed into you since day 1.

    Most self-defense programs will never, ever, help you break that conditioning down. Because that’s dangerous and can even make them vulnerable to law suits. But TFT will precisely do that because it will make you dangerous.

    Once you drop those societal chains holding you back, you will be on equal footing with the most experienced serial killers and mass murderers in human history. Not equal on experience, but equal in terms of tactical advantages. The Left wants you to take on a handicap and give the enemy an advantage, because they say it will prove your moral and ethical “superiority”. It will be up to you, as either a citizen or a self-respecting individual in your own right, to decide whether you value your life over having the moral high ground. And in the end, whatever you choose, the choice will ultimately be taken out of your hands when other people you love become involved. Then it won’t just be about you or your moral high horse. But to the Left, that doesn’t really matter. It ain’t the people they care about that will be dying because they told the Israelis to sign a cease fire agreement.

    I have made my own choice on this matter, and it remains for others to choose their own path in life. That is what the 2nd Amendment is for, even if they worded it imperfectly. Most people who are perfectly fine using a handgun on somebody unarmed or whatever already knows that violence is an equal opportunity offender. It, like death and taxes, will always be there. Except death claims everybody more or less equally, rich or poor, while taxes may not. The 2nd Amendment is important in that matter, but let us not forget that what is really important is people’s choices. The ability for them to even make choices. If you allow socialism and big government to take away your choice by promising that they will protect you from the consequences of your own actions, then you will benefit from not having to make decisions or take responsibility for them, oh yes. But it will also mean that the government and greater society will have the right and the power to place much much more social restraints on you. Most people currently feel restrained from killing, but what happens when they also feel restrained in speaking their mind because their careers would suffer for it? What happens when people self-censure themselves because they don’t want to die and end up like Theo Van Gogh? The government won’t be there for you then. All you’ll have is yourself and your own personal team of naysayers.

    Krav Maga is billed as a system taught to Israeli special forces, spies, commandos, and regular army personnel. I’ve reviewed the instruction videos for it and I’ll tel you one thing I noticed that was made it different from TFT.

    In Krav Maga, when you have successfully knocked down, disarmed, or counter-attacked an opponent, the instructor says “now you are free to flee the scene”.

    In TFT, once you have maimed, incapacitated, or killed a person, the instructor tells you to “walk on out of there, or now go after his accomplices”.

    This is the difference between Olmert fighting Hamas and MacArthur/Sherman fighting Hamas. This is about “self-defense”. The other is about killing your enemies until they don’t exist anymore.

  10. Ymarsakar says

    I think what the cops actually say is “just let the thieves take whatever they want. It isn’t worth your life”.

    I don’t mean to imply that you didn’t write a good satire dialogue, Mike. Just that that is what they actually say.

  11. Charles Martel says

    I think what the cops actually say is “just let the thieves take whatever they want. It isn’t worth your life”.

    The problem with saving your life by letting thieves take what they want is that you are then left with a life where everything gets taken from you by thieves whenever they want.

    Some life.

  12. Mike Devx says

    Ymar (#8)
    >> Who do these people think they are, to decide for me what I need or don’t need for self-defense? >>

    Do such people really call themselves libertarians? Libertarians generally hold individual freedom and responsibility so important as to be sacred. At least that used to be the case. A libertarian would argue with you about why you should CHOOSE the shotgun for yourself… but never tell you they’ve decided for you, and that their decision is “good enough” for you.

    I guess in the brave new Obamaverse, right is left and up is down, all over the place.

  13. Mike Devx says

    Ymar (#9)
    >> The Left wants you to take on a handicap and give the enemy an advantage, because they say it will prove your moral and ethical “superiority”. >>

    Your entire post has a huge amount of info and thought to chew on, Ymar.

    In the specific case of Israel, do you really think the Left wants Israel to just sit back and take it, because they see Israel as so morally superior to the Palestinians?

    I’m asking, not because I know the answer, but because I don’t. I’d like to believe that they simply find Israel’s use of force unacceptable, because they are against violence itself… but then you find that they support Hamas, which is rabidly violent, 24-7-365, so that argument doesn’t wash.

    >> If you allow socialism and big government to take away your choice by promising that they will protect you from the consequences of your own actions, then you will benefit from not having to make decisions or take responsibility for them, oh yes. But it will also mean that the government and greater society will have the right and the power to place much much more social restraints on you. >>

    Well, in letting government take over your life and make your decisions, and protect you from consequences, it might APPEAR that you will benefit. But history shows repeatedly that any benefit is short term. The harmful effects of government control over its people – if the people priorly were self-sufficient and independent – take time. Eventually you always get stagnation and widespread decline. Sometimes a society becomes so degraded it collapses into total misery. It’s just human nature. If government were perfect, that wouldn’t be true, but government is made of people whose interest in improving your life can never match your own – and worse, government is the seat of power and legitimate authority and control, and therefore attracts the corrupt, and the more powerful it is, the more corrupt it will become.

  14. Tiresias says

    Hey, come on! Every word in Carter’s article was spelled correctly – that alone makes the piece great: that’s an accomplishment in this day and age! (At least when he means “all right” he writes “all right;” not “alright,” which I notice appearing everywhere these days.)

    Of course his head was wedged so far he was observing the world through his navel – as usual; but that’s his default position.

    One of the things that most amuses me about these bozos you describe in Marin is their complete failure to grasp any kind of logical stricture, such as the one you applied above. (“Nor did it seem to occur to him that, by the same analysis…”)

    That kind of reasoning never seems to occur to them. It never dawns that practically anything out of their mouths is susceptible of being stood on its head, turned around, and aimed right back – and by their “reasoning” (if that’s what that is) will be equally valid. Maybe even more so.

    I don’t know how you can go through life running your mouth like this and not have had the error of the thought process demonstrated on more than one occasion before you hit the advanced age of about 15. It truly must be an alternate universe. It’s hard to believe anyone could have become an adult without noticing that the sword just cuts, it doesn’t care who’s wielding it.

    That’s the part that amazes me. How many times a day you could look at someone and begin with: “well, by that logic…” and make nonsense of whatever just emerged from their mouths. Astonishing.

  15. Ymarsakar says

    In the specific case of Israel, do you really think the Left wants Israel to just sit back and take it, because they see Israel as so morally superior to the Palestinians?

    While the Left are composed of many different individuals, from amoral puppet master and propagandists to useful idiot cannon fodder, the trend is clear. Whenever America has sought to defend herself against terrorism, the Left has found a complaint for why we are being as bad as our enemies. To the Left, suffering from terrorist attacks should be tolerable, just like crime is tolerable, due to it being a “police matter”. And when it is a police matter, people’s rights must be observed since it is better that the guilty go free than that the innocent be jailed or executed.

    They have provided this over the NSA wiretaps, over GitMo, over Afghanistan, over Iraq, and even more.

    Of course they see Israel as being morally superior to the barbaric and animal Palestinians. If they didn’t, would people waste their time urging Israel to “save the children”? Do they do the same thing with Hamas? No. Why? Because they know Hamas wouldn’t give a damn. So they concentrate their efforts on hitting Israel. Just like anti-Americans concentrate their efforts on America, on the justification that we are the most powerful nation on Earth and thus, as Helen once said, the good fight should be fought there even though other nations are also committing evil.

    I’d like to believe that they simply find Israel’s use of force unacceptable

    When Al Qaeda was detonating suicide bombers in Baghdad, did our MSM find their use of force unacceptable? Or did they blame us, America, for causing those deaths?

    Force is only something important to the Left because they see it as having a morality component.

    But history shows repeatedly that any benefit is short term.

    I agree with that premise.

Trackbacks

Leave a Reply